CZ/SWC to Grand Canyon & Bryce

[D.P. Roberts]

This post is very convoluted, so here's the TL; DR version:

1. We have about a week in mid June to see some national parks of the West.

2. We're taking the CZ from Chicago, & detraining somewhere in Colorado or Utah.

3. We're driving from SLC, Provo, or some other station (which station?) to the North Rim of the Grand Canyon.

4. What other parks should we see that aren't too hot or crowded in the summer?

5. What is the easiest station / return route to train #6 back to Chicago?

We're trying to plan a trip for next summer (2016). My spouse really wants to see the Grand Canyon, I'd really like to take the CZ (we've ridden the SWC several times, but never the Zephyr). So, I'm thinking that taking the CZ to see the North Rim of the Grand Canyon would be a good compromise, especially since the North Rim is allegedly quieter, less crowded, and cooler than the South Rim (we're probably going in mid-June). Our other top National Park choices right now would be Bryce and Zion, if we can do all 3 within about a week (our usual vacation allotment).

The real problem (as I've read in other threads researching this sort of trip) is the CZ's schedule. Heading west on train 5 isn't all bad, as it goes through Utah in the late evening / early night hours. But the return trip at 4:00 am is problematic.

So, I'm trying to figure out which station(s) to use. SLC would be a slightly longer drive than Provo, but it sounds like there are more hotels, taxis, rental cars, etc. in SLC. Also, it appears that there's a light rail station to the airport, where rental cars may be cheaper.

What to do about the return trip? Assuming we return the car in the afternoon / early evening, I just don't see getting a hotel room for a few hours until we catch the train at 3:00 am. But what else can we do? I'm considering returning the car somewhere in Colorado (Grand Junction?) just to make an easier return there, but some places don't allow one way rentals (or charge an arm and a leg for them). So, perhaps we detrain in Grand Junction & rent a car round trip from there - but then we'd miss any interesting train scenery from Grand Junction to SLC, especially during the daylight hours westbound.

OTOH, if we're returning the car in Colorado, perhaps we shouldn't see Bryce and Zion, and should substitute a park in Colorado or Northeast Utah instead? We don't like the heat, and Zion sounds like it's the hottest of the three in the summer, so I think it would be the first to go.

Any recommendations would be greatly appreciated!

 

[AmtrakBlue]

Only thing I can contribute is that Provo is just a nice "gazebo". No staff or building. Don't know if you can get a taxi to meet you.

 

[Alice]

One week isn't much for this trip, at least to do it right, I'd say one week for the driving loop with additional time to get there would be decent, though. Grand Canyon, Bryce, and Zion are different layers of the same formation so it is most interesting to see them in the same trip. Look up Dutton's Grand Staircase for more info. Schedule your time to view museum exhibits or travel between parks during the hot middle of the day, and do your hiking morning and evening. We are talking a desert trip here, expect heat! Part of that area still has dark skies so you'll want to be out at night. If you are at all interested in geology, pick up the appropriate "Roadside Geology" book, browse it in advance to pick your routes, stay off the interstate as much as you can.

I had to look up the name of this trail in Zion, good for a hot day, one of my favorite spots to hang out as a kid. The Weeping Rock Trail goes behind a waterfall. The hanging gardens there are unique and beautiful and the view out is spectacular. You get wet!

In summer, on account of crowds, you'll be parking outside some of these places and taking a shuttle in. This is good for the parks.

There are a few other places you'd want to hit on this loop if you can squeeze them in: Kolob Canyon (part of Zion), Grand Staircase/Escalante, maybe Cedar Breaks, Capitol Reef, and Arches, too. Four Corners is kind of out of the way but you might see if there are any tribal museums in Monument Valley near your route. You don't want to plan this too tightly or you'll miss things as you drive, you want to allow for many stops for scenic views, local food, patches of wildflowers, etc.

I don't know about the train. Aside from the timing, getting off in Utah you are missing some of the best part of the California Zephyr, crossing the Sierras. A one-way car rental would make for a really interesting road trip but the pricing is rediculous! I have one idea about that. I tried an RV from cruiseamerica.com because I wanted to see if I'd like to buy one. Their service facility is in Phoenix and they have real good prices on one way rentals to and from the service facility (I tried both). They include plenty of free miles, even the un-serviced unit was in fine condition, they were easy to drive and park, but those things sure burn gas fast. You might watch their listings this year (they don't put them up that far in advance) and see if this is something you'd like to try, I doubt they'll have much getting serviced during their prime season so anything that does come up will be reserved fast. Since you'd have to be somewhat flexible on time and location, you'd want to be buying up points so you don't get dinged on the last-minute Amtrak reservation you'd be making. You already know the hastle of getting from Phoenix to a train.

Using SLC both directions would sure be simpler. I've found non-airport rental locations to be less expensive. As for killing time overnight, I don't know, pretend you are 18 and stay up all night? I was frequently in trouble with Whooz for too much sightseeing. In SLC, I took the train to Ogden to the museum where I saw a high school play that ended just in time for the last train back, spent a few hours taking pictures of the luggage sculptures by the station in between night shots of trains (I had a new camera), checked out the two nice former depot buildings, some other wandering around; Greyhound's restrooms were open at the other end of the platform. If you get the car at a place that has a night drop-off then you could keep it until the train left, you'd pay until they open up in the morning, probably slightly saner.

Aside from all of this, the Grand Canyon is worth figuring out how to see. Your wife is right to want to see it, and you should go to both sides if you can as they are very different. It is one of those places where no picture, even IMAX, conveys the scale and magnificance of the place.

 

[D.P. Roberts]

Only thing I can contribute is that Provo is just a nice "gazebo". No staff or building. Don't know if you can get a taxi to meet you.

Yeah, I had read that about Provo. Assuming we stay up and wait for the eastbound CZ, there just isn't anything to do or anywhere to wait for it. We'll have already returned our rental car, so we can't even wait in the car. It sounds like SLC is pretty much the same. We're not sure what to do about that.

One week isn't much for this trip, at least to do it right, I'd say one week for the driving loop with additional time to get there would be decent, though. Grand Canyon, Bryce, and Zion are different layers of the same formation so it is most interesting to see them in the same trip. Look up Dutton's Grand Staircase for more info. Schedule your time to view museum exhibits or travel between parks during the hot middle of the day, and do your hiking morning and evening. We are talking a desert trip here, expect heat!

There are a few other places you'd want to hit on this loop if you can squeeze them in: Kolob Canyon (part of Zion), Grand Staircase/Escalante, maybe Cedar Breaks, Capitol Reef, and Arches, too. Four Corners is kind of out of the way but you might see if there are any tribal museums in Monument Valley near your route. You don't want to plan this too tightly or you'll miss things as you drive, you want to allow for many stops for scenic views, local food, patches of wildflowers, etc.

I don't know about the train. Aside from the timing, getting off in Utah you are missing some of the best part of the California Zephyr, crossing the Sierras. A one-way car rental would make for a really interesting road trip but the pricing is rediculous!

We'd probably allow for 5-7 days of "park time", not including train travel. Sorry, should have clarified that. It would be great to see the train scenery west of SLC, but that would be difficult on this particular trip - I'd really like to stop in Colorado and see the national parks there, but then we'd miss ALL the good scenery on the CZ.

I am concerned about the temperatures - I HATE heat. According to the NPS websites, it sounds like Bryce and the North Rim aren't as hot in the summers (they say mid to upper 70s as the high) as Zion and the South Rim & lower elevations. So, as interesting as Zion sounds, it's probably the first park we would skip if time, temperature, schedule, or budget start to impose limitations. Secondly, we're both big fans of the national park lodges, & the lodges at North Rim and Bryce sound the most interesting.

Arches sounds like a great place, especially if we end up returning the car in Grand Junction. Aside from the really expensive rental car, SLC - North Rim - Bryce - Arches - GJT would be a good plan.

 

[Metra Electric Guest]

You'd be covering a lot of ground - Grand Canyon itself is big and I think it's a days/half days drive from one side of the canyon to the other (but worth it), but there isn't a lot of traffic otoh so not a stressful drive. There are some cool places to see near GJ too - the Mesa and the Monument are both neat if you arrive in time before the train. The heat seems more bearable to me since it's dry (yeah yeah, I know "it's a dry heat"), generally, in the west.

 

[Palmland]

Lots to see here. Given only 5 or 6 days for parks I believe I would split Grand Canyon (and Flagstaff) and southwest Utah (Zion, Bryce) from the rest of the parks and make two trips out of it. Maybe save GC and Zion for a fall/spring trip given your aversion to heat. My vote would be for a big circle trip out of Grand Junction: Arches, Monument Valley (it is awesome and I don't use that word lightly), Mesa Verde, and Durango (wonderful steam trip to Silverton) and back to Grand Junction.

To include Grand Canyon you'll be in the car a lot of the trip. One way SLC to north Rim of GC is about 400 miles if you make no other detours. Grand Junction also has the advantage of decent train times. We camped several days in each of the parks and felt like we had just begun to see it.

If you go to Monument Valley, be sure to watch the old John Wayne westerns, they were filmed there with the cast and crew staying at Goulding's Lodge http://www.gouldings.com/

 

[KmH]

If it was me, I too would get off in Grand Junction.

But my plan B would be to get off in Helper, UT and get an Enterprise rental car out of Price which is just south of Helper..

I would take state highway 10 south out of price to I-70 westbound.

At exit 48 on I-70 I would get off and go south on the scenic route US-89 and drive through Circleville, Panguitch, and down to Kanab.

At Kanab take Alt US-89 to Jacob Lake and out of Jacob Lake take state 67 to the North Rim.

If you do go to Provo or SLC you can take I-15 south and at exit 222 in Nephi, UT scenic route state highway 28 south to US-89.

Back when I drove an 18-wheeler I stayed on I-15 down to exit 100 and took that scenic stretch little road over to US-89 a few miles north of Panguitch.

There is a little fancier, but not quite as interesting (scenic) road at exit 95 (state highway 20).

 

[chakk]

If it were me I would take the CZ to Grand Junction. There is an Enterprise Rental Car office (with good prices) about 4 blocks east of the station. I would then drive a circle route from Grand Junction to Moab, Utah. Be sure to visit Dead Horse Point State Park while there, which is better and closer than Canyonlands NP, IMHO. After a day and night in Moab, go south on US-191 to Blanding, UT talking note of the electric car charging stations from Tesla at their visitor center, then west/north on state hwy 95 to Natural Bridges Nat Mon and the Colo River crossing beyond. At Hanksville, turn left (west) on state hwy 12 to travel thru Capitol Reef NP and ending the day near Bryce Canyon NP. The "hoodoos" (rock formations) at Bryce are best viewed in morning sun. After Bryce continue west on 12, then south on US-89 and west on state hwy 9 to Zion NP. Spend a day there hiking in slot canyons and at Angels Landing. Overnight there in Zion lodging or nearby St. George, UT. From there it's a relatively quick drive to Salt Lake City on I-15 (with an 80 mph speed limit on much of the route) or turn east at the I-70 junction to retirn to Grand Junction. Do stop in Thompson Springs to see the diner from "Thelma & Louise" as well as the alien petroglyphs on the mesa rock faces a few miles north of town.

The Grand Canyon is a LOOOONNGGG drive from any station on the CZ route. I would save that visit for a trip on the SWC to Flagstaff or Williams Jct, AZ.

The Utah route I've describe is truly spectacular, and if anyone in your party is age 60 or over, then can purchase a lifetime National Parks pass providing unlimited free admission to all national parks for everyone in your car.

 

[chakk]

I forgot to mention that Arches national park near Moab should also not be missed -- which I think is best in late afternoon light.

 

[D.P. Roberts]

Hmmm... it does seem like we're going about this the wrong way. We're both huge fans of the National Parks, and the Grand Canyon is #1 on my spouse's bucket list. However, we've taken the SWC a whole bunch of times (just last summer too), and we've never taken the CZ (it's #1 on my Amtrak bucket list).

It does seem like it's a long drive from anywhere on the CZ's route to the Grand Canyon, so I think that's out as a direct route. I'm also willing to skip the South Rim altogether - we're limited to only going in the summer, and the South Rim just sounds too hot and crowded, and much too far out of our way.

And since we'd prefer the North Rim, it's still 4.5 hours / 240 miles from Williams Junction - the North Rim just isn't close to anywhere, via Amtrak or otherwise.

Zion and Bryce don't seem too bad, though - only 4 hrs / 270 miles or so from Helper, and 300 from SLC, with Bryce being about the same. Basically, I'd look at this as "breaking up the long drive from SLC to GC North Rim with stops at halfway in both directions." How about this for a plan?

CZ to Helper or SLC, depending on rental car rates and hotel availability for the first night.

Drive to Zion, spend 2 days exploring Zion.

Drive to Grand Canyon North Rim, spend 2 nights there.

Drive to Bryce, spend 2 nights there.

Return to SLC / helper on the last day, hang out waiting for train (this part has me leaning towards SLC, as there might be more to do there in the evenings).

That way, we have 6 nights at the parks, with a longer drive every other day. Plus, it looks like only the first and last days would be over 200 miles - Zion to GC North Rim is only 123 miles, and North Rim to Bryce is 160 miles. Google still says 3 hours for each, but that still doesn't sound too bad.

I definitely like the idea of seeing the other parks closer to Grand Junction - I hadn't looked into them before. Perhaps we should skip Bryce and Zion, and start in Grand Junction instead:

Start at Grand Junction.

See Arches, Canyonlands, Capitol Reef, Staircase, and other parks in those areas, and then the Grand Canyon.

Return the car in Flagstaff / Williams Junction, and take the SWC home.

That involves a one-way car rental, but some of the companies don't seem to charge an arm and a leg for that I priced out a week long one-way rental from SLC, and it's a lot less than we pay for a week's rental (round trip) from Whitefish to see Glacier National Park. It's marginally less driving, but there aren't any 3-4 hour stretches that we have to repeat.