Delays from Unplanned Refueling en Route?

[C855B]

Observed an unusual situation in CEN last Wednesday - 393 arrived its usual hour-plus late, but departed minutes before midnight, now almost four hours off schedule. Immediately after the train left, we noticed a fuel tanker truck (18-wheeler type) emerge from behind the building adjacent to where the head-end had stopped.

"Stuff happens", obviously, but letting the train leave CHI without enough fuel for the short trip to CDL seems a bit odd. Anybody else run into this?

 

[OBS]

If you hang around here (or Amtrak) long enough, nothing will seem odd to you...

 

[Bob Dylan]

I've been on the Northbound Texas Eagle #22 several times when we were delayed while the train was refueled by tanker because someone " forgot" to refuel #21 in FT.Worth or San Antonio the evening before!

Conductors and OBS have told me this happens on almost all routes, especially in the West where distances between towns are long!!

 

[niemi24s]

Are situations such as these simple matters of "forgetting" to refuel [tee-hee, snicker]? Or the result of a conscious decision to depart with a partial fuel load (perhaps because of refueling problems at the departure station) and top off further on down the line - perhaps for the sake of (hopefully) reducing the overall delay?

 

[railiner]

Are situations such as these simple matters of "forgetting" to refuel [tee-hee, snicker]? Or the result of a conscious decision to depart with a partial fuel load (perhaps because of refueling problems at the departure station) and top off further on down the line - perhaps for the sake of (hopefully) reducing the overall delay?

That sounds logical....perhaps due to some issue, they had to make a last minute power substitution at Chicago or something similar, and grabbed whatever locomotive was handy....

 

[C855B]

Come to think of it, I know of situations where the fuel gauge was broken, and the power desk didn't communicate the issue to the departing crew.

Odd stuff does happen, indeed. Tho' just an interested bystander, I rescued 393 on one occasion where a train cable had been jerry-rigged out of CHI, and the "fix" came apart. I heard a complaint on the scanner about needing duct tape but not having anything, so we ran over to the hardware store and bought 'em some. "Some guy just threw me a roll of tape!" was heard over the radio. A couple of minutes later, off they went.

It was the least we could do. They were tying-up the railroad pretty badly. The DS had lined them through the junction, had three trains waiting to cross and was looking at 10-15 minutes of timeout to knock down the signals, adding yet more delay for everybody.

 

[VentureForth]

Professionals don't leave with half full tanks. Ask any airplane pilot if they truly trust their gauges. Trust but verify. (OK: Airliners are a different story because they generally try to run with as little fuel as possible with their loading, route requirements, and legal fuel reserve) But a professional locomotive engineer and/or train operation should NEVER leave base without a full tank, and they should have experience knowing how much fuel they have based on time.

I just can't find ANY logical excuse for having a loco run out (or low) on diesel before their next regularly scheduled stop. Even in extreme cases when trains are delayed for hours, provisions can be made to accommodate. After all, when a train is stopped, minimal fuel is used for HEP and/or idle.

Just seems like there is a better way out there.

 

[Ryan]

Professionals don't leave with half full tanks. Ask any airplane pilot if they truly trust their gauges. Trust but verify. (OK: Airliners are a different story because they generally try to run with as little fuel as possible with their loading, route requirements, and legal fuel reserve) But a professional locomotive engineer and/or train operation should NEVER leave base without a full tank, and they should have experience knowing how much fuel they have based on time.

Call me crazy, but maybe we should leave the setting of professional standards to those that are actually qualified to operate a locomotive in the real world.

 

[Thirdrail7]

Professionals don't leave with half full tanks. Ask any airplane pilot if they truly trust their gauges. Trust but verify. (OK: Airliners are a different story because they generally try to run with as little fuel as possible with their loading, route requirements, and legal fuel reserve) But a professional locomotive engineer and/or train operation should NEVER leave base without a full tank, and they should have experience knowing how much fuel they have based on time.

I just can't find ANY logical excuse for having a loco run out (or low) on diesel before their next regularly scheduled stop. Even in extreme cases when trains are delayed for hours, provisions can be made to accommodate. After all, when a train is stopped, minimal fuel is used for HEP and/or idle.

Just seems like there is a better way out there.

First things first. There is no dipstick in the diesel and it is hard to see in there, so all you can go by are the gauges and sight glasses. Either system can produce false readings. Additionally, an idling diesel providing HEP is hardly using "minimal" fuel. It is producing at least 30% of its potential RPM. That is a good amount of fuel.

Secondly, not all "bases" as you call them have fuel or access to fuel. A lot of the services are based upon turn around service, which often have minimal facilities and services. So, the vast majority of trains in turn around service will often leave less than full simply because they are scheduled to. Additionally, equipment is often manipulated, particularly during delays. Therefore, you may have a train that came from a different area or route representing a train it normally doesn't. Therefore, there may be less fuel that is typically on the normally scheduled train.

The above situation can lead to your third point. That is often a reason why engines can run low or even out before the next scheduled location, particularly if you combine it with this nugget that you're overlooking: A lot of services at intermediate and outlying points are subcontracted. Provisions can be made picking up fuel en route, but what happens when you get a call saying the fuel truck at the designated location is stuck, broken down, on fire or out fuel? Each of these situations and more has occurred more times than I care to count. Even designated fuel pads have been known to fail. The one at Russell went suddenly went off line with the Cardinal on the approach. It had to keep rolling to Charlottesville to meet a fuel truck which resulted in an additional delay to the train.

Sometimes, you have to wait it out, but other times,you try to roll to the next place where fuel can be delivered.What would have happened if this emergency fuel track had issues? What would have happened if trees fell across the tracks and or signals went out while this train attempted to make it to CVS? You'd run low on fuel.

There are also some environmental impact if there is a fuel spill, so some places don't even allow fueling these days. Fuel trucks don't just roll up to trains at any intersections and just because Amtrak needs some doesn't mean the subcontract can make an unexpected delivery at the drop of a dime at any old location.

 

[MetraUPWest]

Professionals don't leave with half full tanks. Ask any airplane pilot if they truly trust their gauges.

What is your basis for this statement? Are you, or have you ever been, a professional locomotive engineer?
I am, and I can tell you I have departed on trips with locomotives with FAR less than half a tank of fuel.

As for the gauges comment, you're right, gauges do break. The design of the Genesis locomotive already compensated for that. Along with having fuel redputs in the computer screen in the cab, and digital readouts next to each fuel filler, there are fuel sight glasses on both sides of the locomotive so Full, 3/4, 1/2, and nearly Empty can be seen at all times. It's physically impossible for the sight glasses to be wrong.

We don't know the back story behind this. It's entirely possible the fueling station in Chicago was broken, and the train was sent out anyway to avoid being late. It's also possible that the train is normally fueled in Carbondale rather than Chicago. This is done all the time in the railroad industry. The railroads fuel wherever diesel is cheaper. If Amtrak can get cheaper diesel in Carbondale than Chicago, then they may always fuel down there. Lastly, it's possible that a fueled locomotive which was on the train had a problem and they needed to change equipment. In that case they may have just put a locomotive on with only enough fuel to make it to Carbondale.

It's also feasible that this wasn't even Amtrak's fault. What's to say the fuel company wasn't late bringing the fuel truck? That's entirely possible given the weather.

It's an unfortunate situation, but a late departure is a lot better than running out of fuel in the middle of nowhere.

I don't appreciate calling me and my brothers and sisters "unprofessional" because of it. My job is to operate the train in a safe and efficient manner. As a locomotive engineer at Metra I'm given a number for the amount of fuel required to make the trip, and another number they want me to have as spare fuel to account for delays. I simply verify I have enough fuel to meet those requirements. I have no control over how the railroad chooses to fill my equipment. If I don't have enough fuel to make my trip(s), I notify someone. That's it. I don't order the fuel, and if for some reason I'm told to just run with what I have that's exactly what I have to do.

EDIT-Here's a photo showing both the digital fuel display and the sight glasses.

 

[andersone]

Whilst returning from our honeymoon in SF in 1990 She Who Must Be Obeyed and I were stranded north of Indy for five hours coming out of CHI because they forgot to fuel the Cardinal. It got cold quick with no HEP in February and needless to say the natives got restless.

 

[Hytec]

This topic reminds of an embarrassing incident with SL 15+/- years ago when it was still running east of NOL. As #1 was about to leave its base in Florida, its power, one of the new Genesis engines, went belly-up. Fortunately, there was an older F-40 in storage, which was fired up and coupled on. However, no one remembered that the fuel stop in Pensacola, FL , required for F-40s, had been cancelled because the Genesis had larger fuel tanks. Needless to say, the F-40 ran out of fuel and coasted to a stop in south Mississippi, in July, under the mid-day sun. It took nearly three hours for a CSX engine to be located 40 miles away, arrive and tow the SL back to a passing siding, run around and couple to SL's nose, then tow it 10 miles to the Gulfport, MS station where the F-40 could be fueled. All this time the passengers had no HEP, no opening windows on the Superliners, and were not allowed off the train onto the ballast in the middle of the woods. Definitely not good for Public Relations....!

 

[fairviewroad]

Observed an unusual situation in CEN last Wednesday - 393 arrived its usual hour-plus late, but departed minutes before midnight, now almost four hours off schedule. Immediately after the train left, we noticed a fuel tanker truck (18-wheeler type) emerge from behind the building adjacent to where the head-end had stopped.

"Stuff happens", obviously, but letting the train leave CHI without enough fuel for the short trip to CDL seems a bit odd. Anybody else run into this?

Strong headwind???