Desertxpress Record of Decision

[leemell]

TheFRA released the ROD on July 8th.

" The FRA issued a Record of Decision (ROD) on the DesertXpress High-Speed Passenger Train project on July 8, 2011. The ROD summarizes the environmental review process FRA conducted in accordance with the National Environmental Policy Act (NEPA) and FRA’s Procedures for Considering Environmental Impacts."

I believe this is the final step in approval and leaves Desertxpess free to get companies under contract and begin construction.

 

[leemell]

Here is a report on the the finishing of the EIS and estimated start of construction of the DesertXpress.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

Although a purely fictitious "high speed train to Vegas" was perpetually lampooned from the right during the Bush era (43) I believe this project has a fair chance at success. The potential market is large and unlike flip-flopping Florida the customer base is already familiar with and generally approving of regional passenger rail services. Hopefully it will reach operational status and eventually connect with other HSR lines as well.

 

[Train2104]

For that to succeed, there needs to be a rail link between Victorville and LAX.

 

[gswager]

For that to succeed, there needs to be a rail link between Victorville and LAX.

Yes, they're working on it as 2nd phase- either to San Bernardino which may be the most expensive option or the cheapest way- Lancaster which is connected by Metrolink. Or maybe Palmdale. Perhaps they're waiting for CA High Speed final plans before making decisions.

 

[afigg]

Yes, they're working on it as 2nd phase- either to San Bernardino which may be the most expensive option or the cheapest way- Lancaster which is connected by Metrolink. Or maybe Palmdale. Perhaps they're waiting for CA High Speed final plans before making decisions.

The Phase 2 option shown on the DesertXpress website, and based on multiple news and on-line reports what they are looking at, is Victorville to Palmdale. Around 50 miles through flat desert. Going through the mountains to San Bernardino with an HSR line is going to be too expensive to even consider until (or if) there is a CA HSR Inland Empire line to connect to at Riverside or near Ontario Airport.

The situation with the CA HSR project and the final selection of the final route between Bakersfield and LA and just how long it will take to build the Bakersfield to LA route adds a lot of uncertainty to the DX project long term viability. There is Metrolink service to Palmdale on the Antelope Valley line. Looking at the Metrolink schedule, an express train takes about 90 minutes from LA Union Station to Palmdale.

One option would be to extend the line to Palmdale to next to the Metrolink station (no idea of the ROW issues with this) as the interim solution while waiting on the CA HSR system to build the LA to Bakersfield corridor. Provide some modest funding to add capacity and make improvements to the Antelope Valley line, if that is possible, and pay Metrolink to lease equipment & run additional special connecting trains from LA Union Station to Palmdale. That would provide a LA to Vegas train service route, albeit with a slower 90 minute leg and changing trains in Palmdale.

Looking at the map, it is around 45-50 miles from Palmdale to Victorville. The DX project is an estimated $6 billion for the approx 190-200 mile route from Victorville to Vegas, some of that through challenging terrain. Call it $32/million a mile. So an extension to Palmdale might run another $1.5 billion, give or take. Not cheap, but the DX system will have to connect to CA HSR or current CA passenger system to be viable in the long run.

There is a complicated mutual support relationship between DesertXpress and CA HSR. The privately backed DX project helps give the CA HSR project more publicly perceived viability. But the DX project needs the CA HSR project to move forward and pick a route between Bakersfield and LA that they can affordably connect to.

 

[GG-1]

Aloha

Frankly as now a Vegas resident, I would prefer a slower train that goes to LA, or Anaheim as another major destination, than being wisked into Victorville.

 

[The Journalist]

As initially planned, DesertXpress is clearly designed almost entirely for getting Californians into Vegas, not for Vegasinians (Vegasites? What do you call yourselves? Up here we're Renoites...) going to California. Hopefully they can work out something to Palmdale to connect with CaHSR or at very least Metrolink, then it'd be somewhat useful the other way. I wonder if there's any plans to bus-bridge to/from Victorville from elsewhere...though it might be premature to be thinking about that until they actually can build something. Speaking of which, This link shows where they're might be thinking of putting the Vegas station...or not. This whole enterprise at times seems hazily planned, or maybe their plans just aren't very publicized yet. Hope for the second, i suppose.

Sunset: I've seen that map all over the place, but nobody ever claims it's theirs. Any idea where it came from initially?

 

[Anderson]

You know, this may sound like a stupid question, but is there any way that the Bakersfield-LA link could be run through Victorville?

Also...I do tend to agree that I would prefer a 110/125 MPH "Limited" to run from somewhere in the LA metro area proper (Ontario, Riverside, or somewhere else) that passengers from other places could link into, and that LA folks wouldn't have to drive an hour to get to. That lack of a link strikes me as a major hole in the plan (Beeching Axe, anyone?).

 

[GG-1]

This link shows where they're might be thinking of putting the Vegas station...or not. This whole enterprise at times seems hazily planned, or maybe their plans just aren't very publicized yet. Hope for the second, i suppose.

Aloha

Hadn't seen that article before, but it is an example of Vegas ??? The monorail does not connect to anything and runs behind the hotelson the east side of the strip. It does not go downtown to the buss transportation center, nor does it connect to the Airport.on the South east side of the Strip. This station on the South west side connects with .... nothing. Another wast.e . The money would be better spent on improving the UP track and on Amtrak trains.

 

[Anderson]

This link shows where they're might be thinking of putting the Vegas station...or not. This whole enterprise at times seems hazily planned, or maybe their plans just aren't very publicized yet. Hope for the second, i suppose.

Aloha

Hadn't seen that article before, but it is an example of Vegas ??? The monorail does not connect to anything and runs behind the hotelson the east side of the strip. It does not go downtown to the buss transportation center, nor does it connect to the Airport.on the South east side of the Strip. This station on the South west side connects with .... nothing. Another wast.e . The money would be better spent on improving the UP track and on Amtrak trains.

Actually, how far is the Victorville station supposed to be from the current Victorville station? If nothing else, it might pay the Desert Express people to cut a deal with the state whereby they would pick up at least part of the tab for a short-haul train from LAX.

 

[jis]

Actually, how far is the Victorville station supposed to be from the current Victorville station? If nothing else, it might pay the Desert Express people to cut a deal with the state whereby they would pick up at least part of the tab for a short-haul train from LAX.

If they can get appropriate waivers for the EMUs that they propose to use for this line, even perhaps with and engine and a buffer coach attached at each end, they could just pull the train by diesel down to LAX. Of course they will need to throw in appropriate HEP connectors so that the diesel can supply hotel power to the train in non-electrified territory.

Not too many people know this, but there was more than one case where a TGV was thusly pulled by diesel to its final destination in France, from a point where electrification ended, pending completion of electrification.

 

[afigg]

If they can get appropriate waivers for the EMUs that they propose to use for this line, even perhaps with and engine and a buffer coach attached at each end, they could just pull the train by diesel down to LAX. Of course they will need to throw in appropriate HEP connectors so that the diesel can supply hotel power to the train in non-electrified territory.

Not too many people know this, but there was more than one case where a TGV was thusly pulled by diesel to its final destination in France, from a point where electrification ended, pending completion of electrification.

The request to run a bunch of additional passenger trains to Victorville from LA through the Cajon Pass is not likely to be well received by BNSF. It is not exactly a fast route either. The Southwest Chief takes almost 3 hours to get from LAX to Victorville, although as a LD train, there is likely extra padding in the schedule.

I would expect that DX is planning to arrange for buses to run from various locations in the Inland Empire and LA area to act as a feeder service to their station in Victorville. My map software gives about a 90 minute driving time from LA Union Station to downtown Victorville.

My understanding is that the Antelope valley line to Palmdale is owned by Metrolink. The LAX to Palmdale Metrolink express times are around 90 minutes. If DX can extend their line about 50 miles to Palmdale and build a new station in walking distance of the current Metrolink station, they might be able to make arrangement with Metrolink to provide additional direct connecting trains from LAX and Burbank. Yes, DX could connect diesel locomotives and get to LA that way, but the regulatory issues and complexity may well make that not worth their while if the wait for CA HSR to go from Bakersfield to LA is only a few years.

But much of this is all speculation until CA HSR planning, additional funding, and actual construction is further along and DX, if they can raise the money, actually moves to start construction. It will be interesting to see how it all plays out.