Diner to come off the CNO for good

[Randy Henderson]

As an OBS attendent who worked the CoNO for over a year, I can attest to the fact that we never restocked the diner in CHI. Due to the 21/22 - 58/59 equipment swap during the daytime layover in CHI, the dining car crew stripped the stock off of the inbound CHI equipment and day stored it at the commissary. That afternoon, the very same "tubs" were placed back onto the outbound equipment, and we were off. Restocking issues is absolutely not a factor in the decision to abolish the diner.

Secondly, I can attest that we would only serve, on a good day, 25 to 30 coach meals in the diner round trip. The vast majority of the long distance coach ridership on the City is between CHI and HMW and Central Mississippi. These passengers are, for a lack of a better word, poor and do not eat, either in the lounge or diner. They bring aboard their food, a lot of chicken. I've been told by the old timers that the City was for years refered to the "Chicken Bone Express." As a coach attendant, I can attest to the truth in that! The train's busiest meals were the breakfast into CHI, very popular with the daily "commuters" traveling between CHM - CHI. Our second most popular meal was the lunch into NOL after leaving Jackson. A lot of people boarding in JAN would race to the diner after boarding to get into the very short lunch before we had to close at McComb. That's it. We never got coach passengers for dinner leaving CHI. Very low turnout for the breakfast out of MEM. Of course the sleeper passengers came to all of the meals, but much of the train's sleeping car passengers only traveled between NOL- MEM; MEM - CHI. Out of the four trips I worked the sleeper on the City, about 2/3 of the rooms turned over at MEM. Using this statistic, I can see how it was easy for management to cut the diner. Just before I left, management was serious about just operating the diner from NOL - MEM, similar to the Texas Eagle diner crew being discharged at Austin, leaving the car unstaffed into SAS. Giving box meals for breakfast into CHI due to train's 9am arrival and box dinner due to the train's 8pm departure could even be eliminated all together if they just modify the train's schedule earlier in CHI and later out of CHI.

As OBS has already said, major changes are coming to Amtrak. As a previous forum member stated, the beltway boys have made already made and approved of these major cuts for the coming fiscal year. It's only the minor details that are being decided now. It's going to get ugly on the rails in the next coming months. For those who want to ride a full service train on the so called "endanged routes", now is the time. Some trains, especially the Silver Service trains, where ridership is among the highest for the long distance trains, are in jeopardy for cuts as well. Time will only tell who's right among us all.

 

[Viewliner]

To what extent are we talking of cuts on Silver Service? Are we talking amenities (ex. dining car) or elimination? Either prospect is a scary one to this Silver Service Patron

 

[Guest_Amtrak OBS Employee]

To what extent are we talking of cuts on Silver Service? Are we talking amenities (ex. dining car) or elimination? Either prospect is a scary one to this Silver Service Patron

View, he just used the "Silver Service" trains as an example being their ridership is amongst the highest in the LD system. As for what is exactly to happen, it is hard to say just yet. I will post info of what I know and my thoughts at a time when it is OK to do so. A lot of my info is hypothetical at this time, however, as I have moved on through these last couple years, all of what I observe seems to work out pretty much the way I expect basing my observations at work combined with my knowledge of how our government operates regarding its inner workings! There's no telling of exactly what is gonna affect the "Silver Service" as of yet that I can post. What I mean of "reforms are coming" is system wide especially in the LD trains portion. I am not saying we are gonna lose trains or anything, though. I just believe what we are used to is going to be drastically different in the coming two years or so! I hope I am wrong regarding my observations. All I can say really is the situation is just different this year than the others! It is not the same old hooplah with our funding, etc. at Amtrak. As Mr. Henderson points out, only time will tell who's right amongst us all, though. Hope all is well with you BTW... OBS...

 

[Sam Damon]

Secondly, I can attest that we would only serve, on a good day, 25 to 30 coach meals in the diner round trip. The vast majority of the long distance coach ridership on the City is between CHI and HMW and Central Mississippi. These passengers are, for a lack of a better word, poor and do not eat, either in the lounge or diner. They bring aboard their food, a lot of chicken. I've been told by the old timers that the City was for years refered to the "Chicken Bone Express." As a coach attendant, I can attest to the truth in that! The train's busiest meals were the breakfast into CHI, very popular with the daily "commuters" traveling between CHM - CHI. Our second most popular meal was the lunch into NOL after leaving Jackson. A lot of people boarding in JAN would race to the diner after boarding to get into the very short lunch before we had to close at McComb. That's it. We never got coach passengers for dinner leaving CHI. Very low turnout for the breakfast out of MEM. Of course the sleeper passengers came to all of the meals, but much of the train's sleeping car passengers only traveled between NOL- MEM; MEM - CHI. Out of the four trips I worked the sleeper on the City, about 2/3 of the rooms turned over at MEM. Using this statistic, I can see how it was easy for management to cut the diner. Just before I left, management was serious about just operating the diner from NOL - MEM, similar to the Texas Eagle diner crew being discharged at Austin, leaving the car unstaffed into SAS. Giving box meals for breakfast into CHI due to train's 9am arrival and box dinner due to the train's 8pm departure could even be eliminated all together if they just modify the train's schedule earlier in CHI and later out of CHI.

Quite interesting observations on ridership patterns here. Certainly lends grist for the mill; interesting how the CNO ridership patterns you've noted make it sound like a mini-Empire Builder.

To get this back on topic, one has to wonder if some creative marketing might have helped out with LD coach ridership and diner use stats.

 

[Randy Henderson]

I have been told by "the old timers" at NOL crew base, when the dining car staff was given the opportunity to design its own menu, especially popular were the Louisiana themed meals like beans and rice, boudin, etc., diner use was much higher. When Amtrak introduced the one national menu a few years back, the coach diner patronage dropped tremendously. In addition to the unique City menu, which I've seen in articles in various railroad magazines (a relatively recent Trains article comes to mind printed a few years back), the Crewbase, through the marketing department, used to have buy one meal, get one free/ 1/2 price, etc. in many New Orleans magazines, travel brochures and such. Again, when Amtrak standardized the diner system nationwide, the marketing that was already in place to encourage diner patronage was abolished, and never to date to return. I can only say that our very forum's discussions were very much part of many staff briefings, only to be told by front line management that corporate was not interested in our ideas or stories of the past. The company introduced the cycle system to enhance the diner experience, especially among sleeper passengers who travel on multiple trains/trips. It did not increase coach patronage because the company always increased the price of the entrees beyond the interest of the coach passengers. I can't count how many times I would offer lower-level coach passengers service, bring a menu down, and be sent away saying even the chef's special, the lowest cost dinner on the menu, was too much money for their budget. I'd end up getting something from the lounge. Just before leaving NOL, even the lounge menu had hit the "magic mark" for many coach passengers when just a simple ham sandwich hit the $5.50 mark. Management already knows of this, and they know that the company will loose some business with the loss of the diner, especially sleepers, but why keep something that is expensive, a political target, labor intensive, etc. when the vast majority of the current train's passengers don't patronize the service. As a bonus, to corporate, they can kill the sleeper too if its use falls due to the diner being gone. I'm not a conspiracy theorist, but raising the costs of the meals for the coach passengers every quarter was a planned effort to run the coach passengers out and make the diner look, on paper, an expensive, undesired service that current train riders don't care about when choosing their travel plans by rail or other mode.

 

[Sam Damon]

Again, when Amtrak standardized the diner system nationwide, the marketing that was already in place to encourage diner patronage was abolished, and never to date to return. I can only say that our very forum's discussions were very much part of many staff briefings, only to be told by front line management that corporate was not interested in our ideas or stories of the past. The company introduced the cycle system to enhance the diner experience, especially among sleeper passengers who travel on multiple trains/trips. It did not increase coach patronage because the company always increased the price of the entrees beyond the interest of the coach passengers. I can't count how many times I would offer lower-level coach passengers service, bring a menu down, and be sent away saying even the chef's special, the lowest cost dinner on the menu, was too much money for their budget. I'd end up getting something from the lounge. Just before leaving NOL, even the lounge menu had hit the "magic mark" for many coach passengers when just a simple ham sandwich hit the $5.50 mark. Management already knows of this, and they know that the company will loose some business with the loss of the diner, especially sleepers, but why keep something that is expensive, a political target, labor intensive, etc. when the vast majority of the current train's passengers don't patronize the service. As a bonus, to corporate, they can kill the sleeper too if its use falls due to the diner being gone. I'm not a conspiracy theorist, but raising the costs of the meals for the coach passengers every quarter was a planned effort to run the coach passengers out and make the diner look, on paper, an expensive, undesired service that current train riders don't care about when choosing their travel plans by rail or other mode.

You know, this is the sort of stuff to make my blood boil. I'll take your words at face value; I really don't see any reason for you to make this stuff up. Amtrak management seems to have gotten the notion the trains are run for the benefit of Amtrak employees. Horse$#@%!

I've said it elsewhere; I'll say it again. Fix the service first.

Among other things, this should mean that every flipping passenger on an Amtrak train should feel they've missed a grand experience if they don't dine on the diner when they have the chance. Instead, what we have is Amtrak management flat out betraying the whole raison d'etre for Amtrak: Amtrak management has sunk to a par with Penn Central passenger train management. Utterly unacceptable, in my book.

Sadly, Randy, as you've pointed out, the diner and sleeping car services bring more headaches to management than they feel they're worth. It's enough to make me actually start believing more of the material on URPA's website.

 

[Midland Valley]

Our Meeting in January originally scheduled for New ORleans is now to be held in Nashville. Too bad the Kentucky Cardinal never quite made it down there. We can still take the train to Memphis and rent a car to Nashville, no problem there. I was talking to Amtrak today about the sleeping car passengers getting a reduction in price for space since the diner is gone. He said there should be some but had no clue since they didn't have all the final decisions made yet on everything.

 

[Bill Haithcoat]

Well, first of all, speaking of things New Orleans, I hope NATIVESON5859 is alive and well out there somewhere and that he will get in touch with us.

Secondly, for Randy, I affirm what other old-timers are telling you about the train being nicknamed "chicken-bone express".

FWIW the original City of New Orleans was a very fast daytime streamliner(quite different from the one told about in the song)which did make its quick trip from about 7 a.m. leaving each terminal, arrivng end of the about midnight. That train could grow to 20 or more cars but always had only one diner and one or two lounges. Testimony to how few people ate in the diner.

The overnight train was an all pullman and parlor car deluxe beauty called the "Panama Limited". Then there were other Illinois Central trains, not streamlined, like the" Louisiane" which were more ordinary.

Eventually, before Amtrak, the all pullman Panama had coaches added. Amtrak took over the Panama Limited and within a few years the then-mayor of New Orleans insisted that it be renamed the City of New Orleans.

So, in a sense there have been actually three Cites of New Orleans.

1.Original streamliner 1941, fast day train

2.The train sung about-- which is not very realistisc, like only traveling 500 miles in a day and changing cars in Memphis. But don't get me wrong, I love the song, too. The author must have gotten his inspiration from riding one of the slower, lesser trains and then just pegged it the City of NOL, poetic license.

3.Today's City, which is actually a re-naming of the former Panama Limited, somewhat slower schedule. The Panama and the old City had about a 16 hr schedule between CHI and NOL.

But yes, for all my babble about the past, I, too, am heart-broken over this development, there just can't be an excuse for not a having a diner in spite of everything. Guess regional menus would help as already mentioned.

When will all this nonsense be over????? I've been living it all these years.