Dislocation caused by New York deluge 9/2023

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AmtrakBlue said:
NYC is being inundated with rain.

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Metro North has halted service into Grand Central, apparently because of flooding in the south Bronx. Hudson Line trains are running down as far as Yankee Stadium and then reversing direction. Harlem and New Haven lines are suspended south of Wakefield and Williams Bridge stations in the Bronx.

MTA just says subway service is "severely disrupted." The New York Times reports that half of the subway system is shut down. Lots of reports and pictures of major flooding in various Brooklyn neighborhoods. NWS says 6 inches of rain have fallen by early afternoon, with more heavy rainfall expected into the evening.

Given other incidents of washouts and mudslides from heavy rain events in the past couple of years, I'd be concerned about Amtrak Empire Service south of Poughkeepsie as the storm moves north, but those trains seem to be running OK for now.
 
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As of 3 p.m., Metro North suspended Hudson Line service south of Croton-Harmon. Also, the Metro North Harlem Line was suspended between North White Plains and Southeast, and NJT North Jersey Coast Line was blocked by high water near Little Silver.

Edit to update: As of about 5:30 p.m., Metro North announced partial Hudson Line service was restored but advised riders to "listen for announcements at stations" because actual schedule info "may not yet populate our apps." Amtrak service resumed with several trains delayed 2-3 hours after being held at Rensselaer (48, 290) or NYP (291, 1235, 49) while the line was closed. No. 283 was delayed more than five hours north of Yonkers and finally cleared Croton-Harmon about 8 p.m. after being passed by the Ethan Allen, Berkshire Flyer and westbound Lake Shore. It will be a late night for travelers heading to western New York on 283 and 49.

A couple of the Albany locals (237, 239) were canceled and the last two departures left NYP roughly 45 minutes to an hour late. The inbound Maple Leaf and Adirondack were pretty much on time.
 
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Amtrak miscommunication department: A friend wrote to me about his experience trying to get home from New York last night after the high-water events. He had been booked on 237, the 4:40 p.m. train to Albany, due there at 7:05. He received a text message from Amtrak saying the train was canceled, so he rebooked onto 241, the 7:15 p.m. departure. Then he received a message saying that 241 and 243 would operate as one combined train departing at 8:55. So he went for a bite to eat and arrived at Moynihan hall about 8:30, only to discover that 241 had already left at 8:20. Then he received another text message saying that 241 and 243 would operate as one train departing at 8:55, which by now he knows is not true. He went to the ticket window and was given a new ticket for 243, which did finally depart about 9:40 p.m. and reached Albany a couple minutes after midnight.
 
The NYC subway ran all kinds of unusual routes. How much of it was a can-do attitude, and how much to keep trains moving through midtown and downtown Manhattan where there is so much interlining, I don't know. But it's good to see, if confusing and not always well communicated. It helped people get to the temporary stub ends on MNRR in upper Manhattan and the Bronx. One Hudson Line MNRR train was reported to have backed up from a half-flooded section to switch to the drier side of the tracks. Also north of the city, in Westchester County, on the roads, four of the five parkways (no trucks allowed) were flooded long after water receded elsewhere. All the parkways with "river" in their names flooded, as well as part of the Taconic (usually a nice way to Albany). The Bronx River Parkway, for example, was designed as a floodway when built, condemning some flood-prone housing, around 1920.

Over in New Jersey, Hoboken has been hashing out plans to resist various types of flooding: storm surge, rain, sea level. Storm surge protection is getting the big funding, not helpful in a rain event, as well as some work on combined sewers. Much has been debated, the result is limited. Apparently the southwestern corner of the city is five feet below sea level. It's adjacent to the Meadowlands, originally drained by the Dutch, with varying success.

In lower Manhattan, the wall approach has been dropped, and future plans are unclear. In Norfolk, Virginia, work is ongoing. Some is as small as building a dike behind an existing bulkhead and topping it with wild-growing grasses. Eroding inland shorelines have also been successfully fixed with native planting, after the laborious pulling up of less helpful plants by volunteers. Of course, walls work too, but require more foundation work, especially in coastal areas.
 
While I won’t speak to any miscommunication they did a relatively good job trying to keep things moving through the deluge operationally. The major issue for Amtrak was with trains heading north on the Hudson line and trains which originate/terminate at Sunnyside yard. I was on an Acela through New York that day from points north to Philly and was quite lucky to only take a 20 minute delay on Metro North around Stamford and New Rochelle due to their issues. This was after getting a text from Amtrak saying trains around New York should expect a 2 hour plus delay so was pleasantly surprised we got through. I did observe track 1 on the hell gate was under water when heading through and heard the engineer report that to the dispatcher on my scanner.
 
MARC Rider said:
Yeah, I figured that, but most of the line is on an elevated viaduct. About the only place where I could imagine flooding is in the East River tunnel, and I wouldn't consider that the "Hell Gate Line," as it's shared with the Long Island RR.
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Was in the Bronx east of the Hell Gate viaduct - the ground level segment between there and the Pelham Bay bridge. There was water in the right of way all the way up to the top of the rails on track 1.
 
MARC Rider said:
Yeah, I figured that, but most of the line is on an elevated viaduct. About the only place where I could imagine flooding is in the East River tunnel, and I wouldn't consider that the "Hell Gate Line," as it's shared with the Long Island RR.
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You need to study the map more carefully since your assumption that most of the Hell Gate Line between Harold Interlocking (Sunnyside) and what used to be Shell interlocking (New Rochelle) is on elevated structures is patently false ;) Quite a bit of it, actually way more than half of it, is on the ground and a bit even in cuts.
 
lordsigma said:
Was in the Bronx east of the Hell Gate viaduct - the ground level segment between there and the Pelham Bay bridge. There was water in the right of way all the way up to the top of the rails on track 1.
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I wonder why just having water upto the top of rail causes service to be discontinued. If they did that in Mumbai or Kolkata all EMU Suburban service would come to a standstill after every Monsoon deluge. I think generally their rule is something like 6" to 9" above railtop. You must have come across videos of EMUs and regular trains charging through at reduced speed with a wake forming off of each truck. But I suppose the practice in the US is in line with being over-enthusiastic about canceling service ahead of any minor disturbance from the normal situation.
 
jis said:
I wonder why just having water upto the top of rail causes service to be discontinued. If they did that in Mumbai or Kolkata all EMU Suburban service would come to a standstill after every Monsoon deluge. I think generally their rule is something like 6" to 9" above railtop. You must have come across videos of EMUs and regular trains charging through at reduced speed with a wake forming off of each truck. But I suppose the practice in the US is in line with being over-enthusiastic about canceling service ahead of any minor disturbance from the normal situation.
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Amtrak did a bit better than Metro North on that day. NEC service stayed running mostly though single tracked at times on hell gate though there were delays getting equipment in and out of sunny side due to the flooding but I don’t recall any outright cancellations for that but delays. Biggest disruption for Amtrak was on Empire Line where there was a suspension. Metro north was a different matter with service completely disrupted in and out of grand central for a period of hours.
 
lordsigma said:
Amtrak did a bit better than Metro North on that day. NEC service stayed running mostly though single tracked at times on hell gate though there were delays getting equipment in and out of sunny side due to the flooding but I don’t recall any outright cancellations for that but delays. Biggest disruption for Amtrak was on Empire Line where there was a suspension. Metro north was a different matter with service completely disrupted in and out of grand central for a period of hours.
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193, and I believe 178, were cancelled. 84 is turned for 193, so it makes sense since it had to use the yard to turn around. 178 was probably cancelled to give 84 equipment the next day.
 
Has to do with more the 3rd rail. What is the dimension from top of rail to bottom of 3rd rail? As well for over running 3rd rail bottom of third rail to top of running rail.? Too close can ,make a socking experience. PProbably turns 3rd rail off?
 
west point said:
Has to do with more the 3rd rail. What is the dimension from top of rail to bottom of 3rd rail? As well for over running 3rd rail bottom of third rail to top of running rail.? Too close can ,make a socking experience. PProbably turns 3rd rail off?
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Assuming that this is about water on rail mentioned above (not at all clear what it is about from the post itself), The section of the Hell Gate Line we are talking about has no third rail, so that is irrelevant.
 
Unfortunately I don’t have any more information on the specific observation - simply passing on what I observed and what was stated on the radio. Water above the top of rail on track 1. I unfortunately don’t even know if this specific condition in this specific location led to the single tracking. I can share that the southbound Acela I was on was operating on track 2 - whether it was for this reason one can only speculate. While I do know that the flooding situation was majorly affecting access in and out of Sunnyside yard based on what I overheard that day leading to the delayed departures I do not have the specifics on where that was. The engineer asked the dispatcher once we got on the hell gate line whether we were going to get into New York and the dispatcher replied that through trains were able to get through at that time and the primary ongoing issue was with trains originating at and terminating in New York. Our Acela train got through Harold Interlocking and the east river tunnels relatively quickly and efficiently and while I looked to try to see what was going on at sunnyside I wasn’t able to observe what the issue might be. The primary area we took delays was just east of Stamford, then again just west of Stamford, and then again just east of New Rochelle - and based on the radio conversations was related to the situation that was affecting access to Grand Central. We got through the Amtrak section unscathed.
 
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I never did see details on exactly where the issues were on Metro North, but I'm assuming Mott Haven had high water, given that the Hudson Line was affected, and apparently some stretches north of there to at least Fordham, because they set the turnaround locations for both Harlem and New Haven lines north of there. Makes sense as a lot of the Harlem/NH route through Melrose and Tremont is in a cut below street level. And then there was trouble between Scarborough and Croton-Harmon that was bad enough to close all four tracks from about 3 to 5:30 p.m., which blocked Amtrak through that period.
 

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