Do trains have a speed limit?

[Joel N. Weber II]

Going beyond that however, except for locos that operate on the SWC, Michigan services, and the NEC, all P42's are programmed to shut the train down if the engineer remains above 79MPH for any major length of time.

When I was commenting that nearly all of Amtrak's equipment is capable of operating at 110 MPH, I neglected to note that many P42 locomotives do not have any sort of cab signal or automatic train stop equipment that would allow them to legally excceed 79 MPH in the US.

However, the traction motors on all of the P42s are geared for 110 MPH, and I think if for some bizarre reason Amtrak were to decide to sell them to VIA Rail, the only thing VIA Rail would have to do to be able to operate those locomotives at 110 MPH in Canada would be to update the settings on the P42s' computers to allow the faster speed.

And the reason many of the P42s are limited to 79 MPH is that so many Amtrak routes cover 0 miles with cab signaling or automatic train stop, and so investing in that extra equipment for the locomotives in the short term would be pointless. When the signal systems installed along the track are upgraded, upgrading the equipment in the locomotives should be relatively easy.

 

[Dutchrailnut]

And the reason many of the P42s are limited to 79 MPH is that so many Amtrak routes cover 0 miles with cab signaling or automatic train stop, and so investing in that extra equipment for the locomotives in the short term would be pointless. When the signal systems installed along the track are upgraded, upgrading the equipment in the locomotives should be relatively easy.

Every P40 and P42 came equiped with cab signal equipment, the unit is a multi setting unit that can be set for any cab signal system in US.

the train stop skate can be plugged in on any p40-p42

The lack of wayside cabsignal equipment is what restricts passenger trains to 79 mph not the gear on Amtrak locomotives.

 

[VentureForth]

SWC can go 90. Wasn't aware of cab signalling on SWC equipment.

Doesn't the Keystone and Pennsylvanian also go 105 or 110?

 

[AlanB]

Doesn't the Keystone and Pennsylvanian also go 105 or 110?

Yes, but the Keystones don't use P42's.

 

[Green Maned Lion]

Surfliners and the California Cars are both rated for 125 MPH. Also of note is the PPCs are rated for 110 MPH.

You got me on the Surfliner/California Cars, but I did say that Heritage cars are rated for 110, and the PPCs are Heritage fleet cars.

 

[TVRM610]

Doesn't the Keystone and Pennsylvanian also go 105 or 110?

Yes, but the Keystones don't use P42's.

But the Pennsylvanian does between Philadelphia and Pittsburgh. Not sure its top speed on the Harrisburg to PHL portions but I'm sure its over 79.

Also... Anyone know what speeds do the NJ Transit trains run on the NE Corridor?

 

[AlanB]

Doesn't the Keystone and Pennsylvanian also go 105 or 110?

Yes, but the Keystones don't use P42's.

But the Pennsylvanian does between Philadelphia and Pittsburgh. Not sure its top speed on the Harrisburg to PHL portions but I'm sure its over 79.

Also... Anyone know what speeds do the NJ Transit trains run on the NE Corridor?

Top speed for a P42 would be 110 MPH. Not sure if the Pennsy actually does that or not though.

And AFAIK, top speed for NJT right now is 100 MPH.

 

[Green Maned Lion]

And AFAIK, top speed for NJT right now is 100 MPH.

People keep telling me its 80, but I'd bet you're right, but only on the Corridor.

 

[AlanB]

And AFAIK, top speed for NJT right now is 100 MPH.

People keep telling me its 80, but I'd bet you're right, but only on the Corridor.

Yes, it would only be possible on the corridor. And I'm not sure if any of the regular trains hit that speed, that's what the equipment is certified for by the FRA. I believe that the ACES trains do get up to that speed, it certainly felt like it.

 

[TVRM610]

Doesn't the Keystone and Pennsylvanian also go 105 or 110?

Yes, but the Keystones don't use P42's.

But the Pennsylvanian does between Philadelphia and Pittsburgh. Not sure its top speed on the Harrisburg to PHL portions but I'm sure its over 79.

Also... Anyone know what speeds do the NJ Transit trains run on the NE Corridor?

Top speed for a P42 would be 110 MPH. Not sure if the Pennsy actually does that or not though.

And AFAIK, top speed for NJT right now is 100 MPH.

The Pennsylvanian did that this week when I rode it... I was pretty sure it was common practice since the layover in PHL is 40 minutes and the layover in Harrisburg is only 15, not really enough time to change locos.

 

[George Harris]

Just curious if trains had a speed limit. I thought they did, but I just looked at my GPS and it said we were going 87 mph. I have to admit, it's making me a little nervous. It's a really rough ride. I'm not sure why we're running so fast, we're ahead of schedule. I'd really like to tell the engineer to slow the hell down.

so far as I know, no where on the Sunset Ltd route is the speed limit above 79 mph. As others have said, chances are you would have been moving not faster than 79 mph or at most no more than 81 to 82 mph. Even a very uncomfortably rough ride can still be well inside the limits of safety. As others have pointed out, there are quite a few places even in this country where trains run faster, in some cases quite a bit faster. There is nothing inherent in rail that prevents going much faster. On high speed lines in other countries, speed limits of 186 mph exist, and the ride can be quite comfortable at that speed.

 

[jis]

Yes, it would only be possible on the corridor. And I'm not sure if any of the regular trains hit that speed, that's what the equipment is certified for by the FRA. I believe that the ACES trains do get up to that speed, it certainly felt like it.

The outer zone expresses consisting of MLVs and ALP-46s actually get up to 100mph quite regularly these days.

Upon the arrival of the ALP46As NJT plans to get the MLVs certified for 125mph, which they actually are quite capable of, so that the outer zone expresses which run on the middle tracks will become less of a hiunderance for Amtrak high speed service, and effectively increase the capacity of the corridor, since reduction of the speed differential among trains using the middle tracks will effectively allow each train to use a single slot, instead of the 1.5 slots used by the NJT expresses at present.

 

[Long Train Runnin']

Here is a shot I took of that brand new express track. Eat your heart out rest of the country its a true high speed piece of rail!

I agree with what Alan said on ACES we were moving no doubt about that!

 

[DET63]

Just curious if trains had a speed limit. I thought they did, but I just looked at my GPS and it said we were going 87 mph. I have to admit, it's making me a little nervous. It's a really rough ride. I'm not sure why we're running so fast, we're ahead of schedule. I'd really like to tell the engineer to slow the hell down.

Some defect detectors will also radio to the engineer, as well as to the dispatcher or anyone else listening to the communication the train's speed. Any train operating above the speed limit will automatically be "outed." Any engineer will probably be reprimanded if not worse.

Better late (as in behind schedule) than late (as in dead).

 

[Nathanael]

Just curious if trains had a speed limit. I thought they did, but I just looked at my GPS and it said we were going 87 mph. I have to admit, it's making me a little nervous. It's a really rough ride. I'm not sure why we're running so fast, we're ahead of schedule. I'd really like to tell the engineer to slow the hell down.

Trains have several speed limits.

(1) The locomotive has a top rated speed. (Usually well over 100 mph on passenger trains).

(2) The cars have top rated speeds. (Usually 100 mph or more)

(3) The track has a top rated speed according to how well it's maintained. ("FRA Track Classes".)

(4) There are speed limits imposed by curves.

(5) There are speed limits imposed by certain types of bridges.

(6) There are speed limits imposed by the type of signalling system due to orders from the Interstate Commerce Commission a long time ago. On tracks without "positive train control" or "automatic train stop" or similar systems, the speed limit is usually 79. On tracks without real signalling (where the "signalling system" is paper orders and radio authorization), the speed limit is usually 59.

I suspect, however, that the original poster (from 2009) had a GPS that was not calibrated perfectly. The Sunset Limited route had the 79 mph speed limit the whole way in 2009.

 

[zephyr17]

SWC can go 90. Wasn't aware of cab signalling on SWC equipment.

Doesn't the Keystone and Pennsylvanian also go 105 or 110?

The former AT&SF does not have cab signalling, but large stretches in New Mexico, Arizona and the California desert still have ATS(Automatic Train Stop) from the Santa Fe days. ATS equipped lines can go 90, too. All the equipment used on the Southwest Chief have ATS shoes. Not sure if all P42s have it. BTW, the Surf Line between LA and San Diego has ATS on some stretches, too (southern Orange County, through Camp Pendleton) and the Pacific Surfliners make 90 there, too.

 

[PerRock]

Just a couple notes (not going to go back and dig out the posts). The Wolverine can be run at 110, however it doesn't in do it regularly. Shortly after the high speed section was open I took it & the made an announcement stating the speed we were going, which was between 100-110 (can't remember what exactly they said). I believe normally it's in the 90mph range.

These are the max speeds for Amtrak's equipment taken from the Fleet Strategy Plan:

HHP-8 135mph

AEM-7 125mph

ACELA 150mph

P42 110mph

F59PHI 110mph

P32-8 100mph

P32-ACDM 110mph

P40 100mph

Talgo 125mph

Am1 "Capstone" 125mph

Am2 ADA 125mph

Superliner1 100mph

Superliner (CalTrans) 100mph

Superliner2 100mph

Viewliner1 110mph

Push-Pull Cab Coach 125mph

Cabbage 100mph

Surfliner 125mph

Horizon ADA 125mph

PPC 110mph

Heritage Baggage 110mph

GP38H-3 100mph

MP15 65mph

SW1500 60mph

SW1001 60mph

GP-15D 65mph

MP14 & MP21 65mph

GP38 65mph

SW1 50mph

SW1000 50mph

peter

 

[AlanB]

A correction and a modification: The HHP is 125 MPH. It might physically be able to go 135MPH, not real sure, but it can never do so because of FRA regulations concerning speeds over 125MPH and it is rated at 125 MPH. So its effective speed is 125 MPH.

And the modification is that the P40's were updated during the overhaul to do 110 MPH now.

 

[Nathanael]

Viewliner1 110mph

I have read elsewhere that the Viewliner Is are designed for 125 mph but are not *maintained* to 125 mph because they are always run with Heritage cars. I do not have an authoritative source for this. However, if true it would mean that they can be "uprated", and probably will be once the Heritage cars are retired.