Engineer/Crew

[Grandma B]

Who sits with the Engineer at the head of the train? I've checked the Internet and have come up with the term "Fireman", but no description as to what his/her duties are. On our 25+ hour trip from NYP to WPB, how many times will we change Engineers? Are they only allowed 8 hour shifts? Since this is our first long distance Amtrak trip, I'm sure hubby will think of more questions.

 

[TransAtlantic]

You will probably have 3 separate sets of trainmen and engineers; they're normally scheduled to work 8 hour shifts, but federal law prevents any TandE personnel from working more than 12 hours "on the law". Also, there is a "fireman" on all of the long-haul trains (many corridor trains have only the engineer), and the fireman works as a secondary resource, break/bathroom relief for the engineer, etc. They don't normally do a whole lot during the course of a trip, but their presence can make the difference between a few small delays and a lot of very long ones.

 

[had8ley]

Also, there is a "fireman" on all of the long-haul trains (many corridor trains have only the engineer), and the fireman works as a secondary resource, break/bathroom relief for the engineer, etc. They don't normally do a whole lot during the course of a trip, but their presence can make the difference between a few small delays and a lot of very long ones.

The City of New Orleans and the Crescent start their northbound journeys out of New Orleans with an engineer only in the cab. They can run by themselves for up to 6 hours. Only problem is they cannot copy track warrants while running (for obvious safety reasons) and have to sit at stations longer than usual, at times, to copy a warrant. I would say there are many other LD trains that have only one person in the cab of the locomotive for most of the journey.

 

[AmtrakWPK]

Most of the time, there seems to be two engineers on the Silver Service trains (which includes the one you will be on) as they go through the Orlando corridor. For trains 97 and 98, which do not include the dog-leg over to Lakeland and Tampa, one crew of engineers and conductors takes those trains all the way from JAX to MIA (or MIA to JAX). Trains 91 and 92, which on the south run go through Orlando, then over through Lakeland to Tampa, then back through Lakeland and south to Miami, and the reverse of this northbound, has one conductor/engineer team that runs Miami-Tampa, and a second team that runs Tampa-Jacksonville (and additional crews, obviously, north of Jacksonville). I think they have two in the cab on that one sometimes, but I'm not sure about how frequently they do that. I'll have to listen more closely for a few days. And there are generally two in the engine cab. I can say that because I frequently listen to the railroad radio frequencies that they use going through Central Florida, and there will be two different voices on the radio (the engine's transmitter, not the conductor's handheld) through the Orlando corridor, as I can hear them from south of the Orlando Station to north of Sanford, which is a pretty good distance. Occasionally I can hear them almost as far north as Deland.

 

[Bill Haithcoat]

Who sits with the Engineer at the head of the train? I've checked the Internet and have come up with the term "Fireman", but no description as to what his/her duties are. On our 25+ hour trip from NYP to WPB, how many times will we change Engineers? Are they only allowed 8 hour shifts? Since this is our first long distance Amtrak trip, I'm sure hubby will think of more questions.

As to the term "firemen" itself, It is a hold-over from thie old days (approx. 1950 and before) of steam locomotives. There was the engineer to drive the train and the fireman to shovel coal. No doubt a back-breaking job.

The term has remained even though its original function has long since ceased to exist on regular commercial railroads.

There were a few diesel engines before WW2 but most began after the war. By the early 50's, nearly all steamers had been replaced with diesel. This almost 20 years before Amtrak, which began in 1971. All this is completely independent of the electic locos on the Northeast corrider, of course.

And I am speaking of regular commercial long distance railroads. There are still a few steam llocomotives on excursion trips, railroad museum outings, etc.

 

[Guest]

Amtrak try's to run engineers 6 hrs or less so only 1 engineer has to be in the cab if the run is over 6 hrs then a 2nd engineer must be in the cab.

It is very hard to run with 1 engineer since anytime the dispatcher needs you to copy any type of information the engineer must stop the train in order to copy the information.

This was a agremment between the BLET Union and Amtrak with the 6 hr issue.

 

[Grandma B]

Thank you all for explaining what the "Fireman" does. Also, we're booked on the Silver Meteor 97/98 and am happy to hear that there should be two Engineers up front. I think my husband likes the idea of "two is better than one".

 

[AlanB]

Thank you all for explaining what the "Fireman" does. Also, we're booked on the Silver Meteor 97/98 and am happy to hear that there should be two Engineers up front. I think my husband likes the idea of "two is better than one".

Well while I won't deny that two pairs of eyes is always a better than one pair, with today's modern locomotives there really isn't a whole lot of times where having an extra pair makes much difference. For example there is little danger should the engineer fall asleep, since just about every two minutes if the engineer hasn't done something (blow the horn, ring the bell, change speed), then the engineer must hit a button called the alerter button.

Failure to hit that button within a few seconds will lead to a very loud bell or horn to start sounding inside the cab. If the engineer still fails to hit that button after a few more seconds, the computers in the engine will automatically apply the brakes and stop the train.

 

[had8ley]

Thank you all for explaining what the "Fireman" does. Also, we're booked on the Silver Meteor 97/98 and am happy to hear that there should be two Engineers up front. I think my husband likes the idea of "two is better than one".

Well while I won't deny that two pairs of eyes is always a better than one pair, with today's modern locomotives there really isn't a whole lot of times where having an extra pair makes much difference. For example there is little danger should the engineer fall asleep, since just about every two minutes if the engineer hasn't done something (blow the horn, ring the bell, change speed), then the engineer must hit a button called the alerter button.

Failure to hit that button within a few seconds will lead to a very loud bell or horn to start sounding inside the cab. If the engineer still fails to hit that button after a few more seconds, the computers in the engine will automatically apply the brakes and stop the train.

Alan;

In addition an engineer, running by himself, HAS to call out each and every signal to his conductor over the radio. If the conductor is worth his salt he ought to know where he will be hearing from his engineer. He has to repeat the aspect of the signal to the engineer. If he can't communicate with the head end he has the means to immediately stop the train.

 

[Dutchrailnut]

Alan;In addition an engineer, running by himself, HAS to call out each and every signal to his conductor over the radio. If the conductor is worth his salt he ought to know where he will be hearing from his engineer. He has to repeat the aspect of the signal to the engineer. If he can't communicate with the head end he has the means to immediately stop the train.

Only on certain railroads, not all railroads require the calling of signals over radio.

The counter argument of two pair of eyes see more is offset by one more mouth in the cab keeps the engineer attention on wrong things.

distraction in cab is just as dangerous.

Just my $0.02 as a passenger engineer

 

[had8ley]

Alan;In addition an engineer, running by himself, HAS to call out each and every signal to his conductor over the radio. If the conductor is worth his salt he ought to know where he will be hearing from his engineer. He has to repeat the aspect of the signal to the engineer. If he can't communicate with the head end he has the means to immediately stop the train.

Only on certain railroads, not all railroads require the calling of signals over radio.

The counter argument of two pair of eyes see more is offset by one more mouth in the cab keeps the engineer attention on wrong things.

distraction in cab is just as dangerous.

Just my $0.02 as a passenger engineer

Again, the difference between operating territories brings different rules and regs. All the trains out of New Orleans are required to call out signals when running alone. I took it for granted that this was a system wide Amtrak rule. Little would I have thought that this would be an individual railroad's rule. It doesn't make safety sense to make just some trains do it and others just to keep highballing along. Just to add to the mix; when you run on two different railroads in the course of your day you could be calling out signals on one railroad and maintain radio silence (as far as calling out signals) on the other?

 

[Dutchrailnut]

Correct you only comply with the rules that apply to territory you run on.

Some railroads may not want the radio interference from crews calling signals.

Just immagine a Dispatcher hearing 50 trains in his territory calling out signals, this can distract Dispatchers too.

 

[had8ley]

Correct you only comply with the rules that apply to territory you run on.Some railroads may not want the radio interference from crews calling signals.

Just immagine a Dispatcher hearing 50 trains in his territory calling out signals, this can distract Dispatchers too.

You bring out a good point; I don't envy the NS dispatchers. Thanks for pointing out my misconception about "ALL" Amtrak trains. It was an assumption that I should not have made.

 

[Crescent ATN & TCL]

Also, there is a "fireman" on all of the long-haul trains (many corridor trains have only the engineer), and the fireman works as a secondary resource, break/bathroom relief for the engineer, etc. They don't normally do a whole lot during the course of a trip, but their presence can make the difference between a few small delays and a lot of very long ones.

The City of New Orleans and the Crescent start their northbound journeys out of New Orleans with an engineer only in the cab. They can run by themselves for up to 6 hours. Only problem is they cannot copy track warrants while running (for obvious safety reasons) and have to sit at stations longer than usual, at times, to copy a warrant. I would say there are many other LD trains that have only one person in the cab of the locomotive for most of the journey.

At what point do the fireman join the engineer? I remember seeing 2 crew members in the cab at Tuscaloosa and Anniston.

 

[battalion51]

Engineers and Firemen are assigned to regular jobs. It is always designated whether a train is required to run with two men or one. It's not the sort of situation where after six hours another man joins in. If an Engineer's job is less than six hours from Point A to B typically he/she will work along. If the job is scheduled to exceed six hours there are two men up front by contract. The exception to this is if the Engineer changes trains en route. For example a NYP-WAS job is typically 9-10 hours. But because an Engineer will take one train south, and then another north after a short break, there can still be one person in the cab.

 

[had8ley]

Also, there is a "fireman" on all of the long-haul trains (many corridor trains have only the engineer), and the fireman works as a secondary resource, break/bathroom relief for the engineer, etc. They don't normally do a whole lot during the course of a trip, but their presence can make the difference between a few small delays and a lot of very long ones.

The City of New Orleans and the Crescent start their northbound journeys out of New Orleans with an engineer only in the cab. They can run by themselves for up to 6 hours. Only problem is they cannot copy track warrants while running (for obvious safety reasons) and have to sit at stations longer than usual, at times, to copy a warrant. I would say there are many other LD trains that have only one person in the cab of the locomotive for most of the journey.

At what point do the fireman join the engineer? I remember seeing 2 crew members in the cab at Tuscaloosa and Anniston.

Meridian, MS~ fairly good six day job that leaves NOL at 7:10 and usually arrives into town around eleven. You don't go back to NOL until 3 p.m. the next day and spend the night in New Orleans(three nights a week). You get one day off but if it happens to be Saturday you're off from Friday at 11 a.m. until 3 p.m. Sunday.

 

[jackal]

Correct you only comply with the rules that apply to territory you run on.Some railroads may not want the radio interference from crews calling signals.

Just immagine a Dispatcher hearing 50 trains in his territory calling out signals, this can distract Dispatchers too.

Well, the only time the signal would get called out on the radio is on a passenger train, when there's only one person up in the cab. On freight trains, where the conductor's six feet away from the engineer, they call out the signals verbally to each other and would therefore not need to add to the radio traffic.

Also, dispatchers are not always listening to the road channel in a particular area--they usually need to be buzzed before they open up their radio and listen. Most of the time, they don't hear or care what's happening on the road channel unless someone pages them. So, crews calling out signals would mostly be ignored by the DS.

So, I don't think it'd be as big of a deal if it were an Amtrak system-wide policy. (And FWIW, I think it's a good policy--keeps the engineer awake and paying attention.)

 

[Dutchrailnut]

At what point do the fireman join the engineer? I remember seeing 2 crew members in the cab at Tuscaloosa and Anniston.

There are no longer any fireman on Amtrak, if a run is longer than 6 hours without crew change a second engineer is added to basic crew.

 

[had8ley]

Correct you only comply with the rules that apply to territory you run on.Some railroads may not want the radio interference from crews calling signals.

Just immagine a Dispatcher hearing 50 trains in his territory calling out signals, this can distract Dispatchers too.

Well, the only time the signal would get called out on the radio is on a passenger train, when there's only one person up in the cab. On freight trains, where the conductor's six feet away from the engineer, they call out the signals verbally to each other and would therefore not need to add to the radio traffic.

Also, dispatchers are not always listening to the road channel in a particular area--they usually need to be buzzed before they open up their radio and listen. Most of the time, they don't hear or care what's happening on the road channel unless someone pages them. So, crews calling out signals would mostly be ignored by the DS.

So, I don't think it'd be as big of a deal if it were an Amtrak system-wide policy. (And FWIW, I think it's a good policy--keeps the engineer awake and paying attention.)

On a recent trip on the Crescent we noticed the following: I don't know if it is Norfolk Southern policy or not but I noticed a freight train calling signals on his radio, "Train #319-Clear signal MP..." Is this mandatory on the NS or is the crew protecting their movement?

 

[had8ley]

At what point do the fireman join the engineer? I remember seeing 2 crew members in the cab at Tuscaloosa and Anniston.

There are no longer any fireman on Amtrak, if a run is longer than 6 hours without crew change a second engineer is added to basic crew.

Is the rate of pay the same for both enginemen? Also, how are the jobs bid? Does the older engineer have responsibility for the movement of the train?

 

[AmtrakWPK]

Through the Orlando corridor, and, I think, through most of Florida, all trains on CSX tracks call signals by radio, from the engine's radio, which I believe is around 100 watts output, a pretty powerful VHF transmitter, with an antenna which is probably on top of the engine, and radiates quite well for a very good distance. At least, those calls are what I hear on my radio receivers here and on my mobile scanners traveling throughout Florida. Don't forget, those calls are also a safety feature for all other trains in the area - if somehow the signals malfunctioned, the nearby trains could realize there was a problem and perhaps avoid a collision by contacting the other engineer and stopping their trains before a collision occurred. Also, when you have work crews working on the tracks, it helps keep them aware of the relative positions of trains in the area and when to expect them in their work area. Yes, the trains are required to contact those foremen to get permission through the work area, but if a train neglected to do that, the foreman would know, from the calling of the signals as that train progressed, that the train's passage was imminent, and could contact the train by radio AND make sure that the workers and equipment were clear of the tracks before the train arrived at the work area limits. One train does not operate in a vacuum, so to speak. It operates in a fairly crowded system, with a lot of single-track travel. Calling the signals benefits safety for all train movements in that area, not just the one calling that signal.