Excess Carry-on Baggage Fee Began October 1, 2015

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In response to amamba, how many people actually try to carry on two almost full size suitcases and two hand baggages on an NEC Regional anyway? Even if they are being daft enough to try to go to KIN to visit the traveler? :)
I do see people with lots of bags on the Regional, and unfortunately, on this route that might need it, I can't see them enforcing anything with the amount of turnover between stations and the need to keep to the schedule. Several years ago, on a full train from TRE to MYS, which the commuters are now using between PHL and NYP, there was a young person pretending to be asleep, with her feet up and luggage on the seat next to her. So I gently prodded her socks (she had at least taken off her shoes) with my umbrella and told her in a polite but no-nonsense voice that she would have to move her stuff because the train was full (which she did). After that, the mischievous Muppet that seemed to have taken me over started a conversation with her in a cheerful morning voice. She could hardly wait to get out of the train at New York. I had the seat to myself the rest of the trip, but I decided then that having to worry about getting a seat at TRE wasn't worth it and decided to start going business class (with points sometimes to make it not as expensive).
 
This absolutely riveting thread brought a bizarre image to my warped brain (which is old enough to remember the days before colored TV):

• SCENE - some Amtrak station

• PLAYER - the late great comic Red Skelton in his role as (Klem Kadiddlehopper?) the traveling anvil salesman

• ACTION - Skelton trying to get his sample cases aboard the train.
 
This absolutely riveting thread brought a bizarre image to my warped brain (which is old enough to remember the days before colored TV):

• SCENE - some Amtrak station

• PLAYER - the late great comic Red Skelton in his role as (Klem Kadiddlehopper?) the traveling anvil salesman

• ACTION - Skelton trying to get his sample cases aboard the train.
:giggle:
 
Of course the issue is a balance between efficient operation and bringing in revenue.

The issue of excessive carry on baggage is of course on both sides of efficient operation. Arguing with passengers tends to eat up time, while using up every available space for carry on causes issues. They'll often let it slide.

Strangely enough, the airlines' moves for charging for baggage except carry on (and some airlines even do that) has created a situation where most passengers are bringing aboard carry on to avoid the charges. Amtrak specifically doesn't charge for a generous two pieces of check in baggage, but even then there are people who either can't check in (unstaffed station at either end) or don't want to. Another issue is that someone with three pieces of luggage and five pieces of "personal items" tends to slow the boarding and deboarding process.

It could get to the point where performance reviews may include how much baggage revenue is processed by conductors.
 
Passengers boarding at an unstaffed station can't pay with cash without being hit with a penalty, where passengers at a staffed station can (by using the ticket counter instead of paying on board.)
Not exactly. The policy is that if there's no means to buy a ticket at a station (ticket office or Quik-Trak) then a ticket can be purchased from a conductor with no surcharge. On my Capitol Corridor route there are at least three stations where this can be done (OAC, HAY, SCC), and I did it once myself to see if it could be done. There's no penalty for cash to my knowledge.

Now I suppose if there's only Quik-Trak at a station, then there's no means to pay cash without a penalty. The machines don't take cash and there will be the penalty for buying tickets on board.
Some state corridors aside, passengers paying cash onboard at unstaffed stations will be charged the highest YOFC regardless of fare reserved. So while there isn't the staffed station surcharge, the YOFC is still sort of a penalty if any lower fare was reserved.

True, though in theory (though not in practice in most cases) the current policy is more likely to generate "never again" passengers. There is no reduction in the official allotment of carry-on items from Sept. 30 to Oct. 1. What is happening is that instead of an unofficial "turn the other way" when it happens most of the time there's now an official "it's allowed for a fee" policy for additional carry-on baggage. I would think that, if the policy was simply just enforced more strictly, there'd be a lot more "never again" from being turned away at the platform from boarding for too much luggage (or having to abandon luggage) than having to pay $20-$40 for that luggage but still bring it with you.
Granted that I'm usually in a sleeper, but I don't think I've ever seen or heard of someone being turned away for too much baggage at trainside. The strange situation in RVR I mentioned is the closest I've seen.

And of course, as I've said...there's a risk that this makes for a worse baggage situation in coach (since policy is now to take any baggage people bring on).
I would say most passengers are within the carry-on limits or exceed it only slightly. Those that are over the limit are usually way over the limit and under the current policy must be denied boarding. Trouble is, once someone is train side with a large, 50lb suitcase (and especially traveling to an unstaffed station) it is easier to board them than have a drawn out denied boarding situation or trying to find station services to take the bag and check it the next day. Now we'll have a process to accept the additional baggage for a modest fee. Announcements on 800-USA-RAIL and the website detailing the change have already begun.

What written policy states that a customer is allowed to take any baggage people bring on? The public website states that the carry-on luggage policy is "strictly enforced." I double-checked the Service Standards Manual, and it even tells employees to refuse service if someone is clearly exceeding the policy.


Since all written policy that's publicly available suggests that people should not bring on excess baggage, and they may be turned away trainside if they clearly exceed the policy, the new policy is a better policy as written than the current policy. I'd rather have an enforced, written policy that allows excess baggage if I need it, even if it's for a fee, than a relatively unenforced policy where the general rule is "if you can carry it on you can bring it on" but a strict conductor or attendant could deny service if it exceeds the policy.

It bears repeating that this change does not include any reduction to the free baggage allotment. There was a minor change earlier this year in the written policy to solidify the personal items allotment (arguably with a reduction in that, though I'm not sure I'd buy that this would constitute any part of a trend) but the core substance of the carry-on allotment has not changed anytime in recent memory (I can't think of the last time it was changed.) Amtrak appears to simply be enforcing the current baggage allotment more strictly and allowing people an official way to bring more on board if they wish. To me, this is worlds better than simply enforcing it more strictly and turning people away trainside.
The trouble with the no exceptions policy is that enforcement is rare, despite "strictly enforced" language, for the reasons I mentioned above. Much easier to just put 'em on the train and advise them not to do it again. We even have nice little carry-on baggage handouts that state "you will be denied boarding next time." I really hope the excess fee charge is fully enforced and more successful in limiting carry on bags. Overweight bags (25+ lbs) are the worst as someone has to lug them up/down the steps on single level equipment and find limited floor/luggage rack space for them.
 
Some specific details are yet to come from the company, but here is what I've gathered from various sources: The fee will be assessed once per one-way trip with special tags identifying paid excess baggage. So if you have one or more connections, the fee would be paid once but can be assessed at any time during the trip.

For example, traveling Washington, DC to Denver would only result in one charge per excess bag. The charge should be collected in Washington and the bags appropriately tagged. If the passenger boards without paying, they can be charged at any point by a conductor on the Capitol Limited, Chicago during the connection or a conductor on the California Zephyr. When returning back to Washington, the charge would be collected again for the return trip.

I have no idea how conductors will collect payment onboard, but hope it won't be too complicated as that will greatly reduce onboard enforcement.
 
Was it Max Bialystock who said "I love it when a plan comes together"? perhaps a bad source on my part but bliss form a management perspective
 
I think I need to go and photocopy my HC license plates,,,, I don't have a placard,
25 years in to the ADA. and that bulky hang card is the best portable way of proof ....

perhaps I am a moron. but is there ANY state that just offers it as a wallet card?......

I dont own a car. so cards that hang are useless. plates are the same way.

Heck the hangcard I have the ink on the bottom for the exp date is darn near rubbed off from it being in my backpack ect .

I dare not touch it up or laminate it .
 
At least the way it works in NY, the hang tag is intended for the individual, not a specific vehicle. My mom was legally blind due to macular degeneration, If I drove her somewhere, we were entitled to use her tag. Obviously she did not own a car or drive. If you are regularly in one car, you might want the plates. But here, they are only good for off street handicapped spaces, we have no reserved spaces on street. For on street privileges, you need a special dash placard, much harder to get, you have to be seen by their doctor.
 
At least the way it works in NY, the hang tag is intended for the individual, not a specific vehicle. My mom was legally blind due to macular degeneration, If I drove her somewhere, we were entitled to use her tag. Obviously she did not own a car or drive. If you are regularly in one car, you might want the plates. But here, they are only good for off street handicapped spaces, we have no reserved spaces on street. For on street privileges, you need a special dash placard, much harder to get, you have to be seen by their doctor.
There's some British company that provides an "Access Card" listing a person's particular needs. I don't know if it carries any official weight, but they claim that many organizations recognize it.

http://www.accesscard.org.uk

I don't know what all the symbols mean.

card1.jpg


However, my understanding is that the ADA terms mean that some can't be asked for why they need a certain accommodation. I've also seen some crazy stuff. Once it was an overweight woman with a kid at the Fremont, CA station. The station has a curved platform, and there can be a pretty big gap. She was yelling for some help with her items, even though it didn't appear that she needed any. And yeah - it looked like she had maybe four items that would be considered carry on sized. Mostly she was overloaded with too much stuff and the kid wasn't big enough to carry more than just one item - and was pushing along her own stroller to boot.
 
I have no idea how conductors will collect payment onboard, but hope it won't be too complicated as that will greatly reduce onboard enforcement.
Probably just cut a COTS like they do with any other onboard revenue transaction.

But having to call CNOC for a passenger with only a credit card is going to be a big hassle.
 
At least the way it works in NY, the hang tag is intended for the individual, not a specific vehicle. My mom was legally blind due to macular degeneration, If I drove her somewhere, we were entitled to use her tag. Obviously she did not own a car or drive. If you are regularly in one car, you might want the plates. But here, they are only good for off street handicapped spaces, we have no reserved spaces on street. For on street privileges, you need a special dash placard, much harder to get, you have to be seen by their doctor.
There's some British company that provides an "Access Card" listing a person's particular needs. I don't know if it carries any official weight, but they claim that many organizations recognize it.

http://www.accesscard.org.uk

I don't know what all the symbols mean.

card1.jpg


However, my understanding is that the ADA terms mean that some can't be asked for why they need a certain accommodation. I've also seen some crazy stuff. Once it was an overweight woman with a kid at the Fremont, CA station. The station has a curved platform, and there can be a pretty big gap. She was yelling for some help with her items, even though it didn't appear that she needed any. And yeah - it looked like she had maybe four items that would be considered carry on sized. Mostly she was overloaded with too much stuff and the kid wasn't big enough to carry more than just one item - and was pushing along her own stroller to boot.
Here are links with explanations for the symbols. I guessed most of them, including WC - water closet (bathroom).

http://www.accesscard.org.uk/symbols-text/(text only)

http://www.accesscard.org.uk/apply/medical-evidence/(interactive)
 
. . .will be charged the highest YOFC. . .
I give up. Google just says it's the Yangtze Optical Fibre and Cable company. What is it?
YOFC is the fare basis and in this case corresponds to the highest coach fare bucket, Y. The fare basis contains all the rules associated with that fare such as refunds, changes, advance booking requirements, etc. It is similar to the airlines but much, much less complicated.
 
. . .will be charged the highest YOFC. . .
I give up. Google just says it's the Yangtze Optical Fibre and Cable company. What is it?
Still don't know, but it's mentioned in this thread as some sort of fare code.

http://discuss.amtraktrains.com/index.php?/topic/43209-amtrak-inventory-bucket-codes/

Saw something else that mentioned YOFC is the fare basis for full fare coach. I knew someone who was a travel agent, and Y-class stood for full fare, refundable/transferrable economy class. Even business travelers don't pay that unless booking last minute these days.
 
I have no idea how conductors will collect payment onboard, but hope it won't be too complicated as that will greatly reduce onboard enforcement.
Probably just cut a COTS like they do with any other onboard revenue transaction.

But having to call CNOC for a passenger with only a credit card is going to be a big hassle.

it is actually easier than that. They can process the transaction but they should nudge the passenger in the direction of calling the 1-800 as if they are changing their reservation. This way, it can actually be entered in the PNR and everyone that has access to the manifest can see that the fee was already paid.

While I do understand where Devil's Advocate is coming from (is this a slippery slope, where will Amtrak go from here) this is one thing that should actually help, especially the conductors.

This isn't something that was dreamed up in a back room by a bunch of people rubbing their hands together, snickering about how they try to capture more revenue. This was pretty much a joint effort between crews and passengers alike. The trains are packed and passengers often load their excessive luggage into the ADA areas, which causes problems down line. It can delay trains as passengers grapple with bags that can barely fit down the aisle, let alone in the luggage rack.

As Jis (and others mentioned) the policy will not impact the vast majority of passengers. The passengers impacted will now have more of a clear cut policy instead of facing the potential of running into the far and few on board crew members that will enforce the policy.

This policy should really help the on board crews since passenger services is supposed to take the lead where they can. This is very powerful since they are the ones that tend to....how should we put this diplomatically.....have a department that employs people that may have an "incentive" to violate the current policy (every has that....right? :ph34r: ) and when on board crews tried to enforce the policy on board, they were often told they were put on the train by the aforementioned group of employees.

This should greatly reduce the aspect.

The bottom line is the fee shouldn't impact that many people. If passengers wish to pay the fee, they may still bring what they need. If passengers decide not to travel with as much, well that still helps since there is less luggage, more spaces and hopefully, a little less dwell.

The only thing that surprises me is the timing. I thought they were going to wait a little while longer since some of the baggage cars are supposed to start eventually showing up on trains that currently don't have baggage cars.
 
Charging fees for overweight carry on bags is ridiculous. I understand checked bags - there needs to be a deterrent to keep station staff from throwing their backs out when lifting bags over their shoulders and throwing them onto a cart or into the baggage car. But so long as the passenger is carrying their own bag, it shouldn't matter if it weighs 100 lbs.

This seems to be an airline policy that some dolt copied and pasted into Amtrak without understanding the implications weight has on aircraft performance. First, jet fuel is much more expensive than diesel. Next, every pound of payload reduces range which has to be made up in fuel. Sure, trains are affected by weight as well, but even fully loaded passenger trains are lightweight compared to freights. The performance/weight ratio is much further apart.
 
I agree that charging a fee for excess quantity luggage is a good idea since it reduces dwell time, etc. You can't carry more than 4 pieces of luggage on your person, anything extra takes multiple trips and costs time.

The scenario that I'm envisioning being a possible issue is charging the fee to someone at a station without checked baggage who tries to bring their (1 or 2) large suitcases aboard that greatly exceed the carry on size limit but would be legal as checked bags. There isn't really a comparable airline example, since almost all flights and airports offer checked bag service...
 
In Ohio you need a Dr.'s certificate to get HC tags. I got the permanent ones because one night we rushed to Columbus to James Hospital, parked in the HC ramp and She Who Must Be Obeyed forgot to hang the tag. I am amazed how many people just leave their tag hang from their mirror even though the tag instructs you not to.We got a notice a $250 fine, fought it and won (although it was a hassle) so I decided to just get permanent tags for both vehicles. I keep my old windshield placard for renters. The tags allow me take any HC spot regardless of location.

I looked at my Ohio vehicle registration, and noted it only gives the tag number not the tag type. So I scanned it, then took a photo of the tag and put it into the pdf. Now I have an image with both of them at once (the tag has that universal wheelchair symbol on it.) I only did this because I am an anal retentive almost paranoid but I did have space on my Google Drive so I can access it anywhere. If you saw my in person with the trachea and the permanent Quasi Moto rad burns covering the right side of my head you wouldn't even ask for documentation. It must be the old Girl Scout in me.

Having said that we started packing for Yellowstone. We use three rollers (one is strictly photo gear and scopes) that will be checked. For I carry a knapsack, we have a collapsible Coleman cooler (we actually pack it with train clothes and use it as a cooler when we get there), SWMBO has one of those neat locking carryall's with a lock that you can use virtually anywhere for her stuff and I have my trusty med bag with drugs for the ugly, a nebulizer, and all the variant bandages, trachea cleaning supplies and all the other wonderful paraphernalia needed for daily existence. You just don't know how good life can get til you need a small tube of saline to breathe. We are actually under the 2+2+2+2 limit, but my photo gear bag gets real close to the weight limit. I can re-pack if anyone squawks, although I use cable ties to discourage wandering hands in the checked luggage. I just have a few in the knapsack.

As mother said frequently "Even paranoids have real enemies."
 
Charging fees for overweight carry on bags is ridiculous. I understand checked bags - there needs to be a deterrent to keep station staff from throwing their backs out when lifting bags over their shoulders and throwing them onto a cart or into the baggage car. But so long as the passenger is carrying their own bag, it shouldn't matter if it weighs 100 lbs.

This seems to be an airline policy that some dolt copied and pasted into Amtrak without understanding the implications weight has on aircraft performance. First, jet fuel is much more expensive than diesel. Next, every pound of payload reduces range which has to be made up in fuel. Sure, trains are affected by weight as well, but even fully loaded passenger trains are lightweight compared to freights. The performance/weight ratio is much further apart.
Really? It seems to me passengers with overweight bags (25lbs+) are the ones least able to lug them up the steps into an Amfleet coach. The employees end up doing the heavy lifting because, again, it is easier to just put it onboard than have a denied boarding situation. Now you'll have to find space or heft it up into the luggage rack and repeat the process in reverse at the passenger's destination. It's also amazing how many people just freely bound up or down the steps, lugging a bag or not. Safety first says use the hand rails and watch your step. Can't do that very well with a 100lbs bag.
 
That is a very good point AmtrakLKL! Many people are done with lugging once they reach the train door. After that it becomes someone else's problem to get the thing on board and placed out of the way. Since the same employees have to potentially handle them when push comes to shove, it is reasonable for the same 50lb limit to apply, as it already does.
 
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