Flagler's Line Across Florida

[AlanB]

Where is this cut-off actually built? Funnily enough, I used to work West Palm on Freightyard Manager when I was active with it!

It's not built, which is why I said a "newly built switch and track section". I guess that I should have been clearer though. Sorry!

 

[JohnF]

While there are no guarantees just what Amtrak might do, the plan way back when was to split/combine the trains at JAX. Half would run down the FEC and half would continue down the current route. Therefore no cities would loose service, while other's would gain service.
What Amtrak may or may not do in the future is of course unknown.

I would think the best solution would be to go back to a West Coast and an East Coast train. The Meteor being the fastest could take the FEC route and the Star could continue it's current routing. The only problem is how do you get the Meteor to serve Orlando if it takes the coast route down the FEC. Orlando is by far the hottest destination in Florida, isn't it?

 

[AlanB]

Orlando is by far the hottest destination in Florida, isn't it?

Orlando is second only to the Auto Train's Sanford for number of passengers with just shy of 130,000 passengers in 2007. The next closest city is Tampa at just under 75,000 passengers.

 

[Bill Haithcoat]

One thing for sure--go ahead now and take this to the bank.

If EVER........ EVER........ trains are restored from Atlanta to Florida, or, from Atlanta to Chicago, I will walk down to the station as soon as I hear about it and be first in line, even if it is two months before start-up. :lol: :lol:

 

[VentureForth]

I could be wrong, but I don't think that anyone is talking about rerouting exisiting trains, but rather adding service.

 

[jis]

Any train running down the FEC would travel across a newly built switch and track section at West Palm Beach to connect from the FEC to the current Tri-Rail route used by Amtrak to reach Hialeah.

Tri-Rail's Jupiter Extension plan includes a connector from FEC to ex-CSX tracks just north of Mangonia Park, and a second connector in the vicinity of Pompano. So yes, Amtrak will have ways of getting to Hialeah even it it runs down FEC.

Even with the constrained supply of cars, if the modest request for new cars goes through there will be enough cars to extend Palmetto again as Silver Palm and thus there will still be two trains serving Orlando and the third one serving the FEC route. Actually the biggest problem at the present time is shortage of Diners, unless the third train wants to look like the Cardinal that is.

 

[jphjaxfl]

[The Nancy Hanks sure didn't have many passengers]

When I rode the Nancy Hanks in the late 1960s until through February, 1971, it was quite crowded. Since it left Atlanta at 6PM, it carried many passengers that had been shopping or spent the weekend in Atlanta traveling to many of the small communities where the train stopped. It carried a Dome Coach, two 60 seat standard coaches and a Diner Lounge. I remember lots of people getting off in Savannah about midnight. The same thing happened in reverse on the return trip. Lots of passengers boarding to go to Atlanta. Also a number of passengers changing to other trains in Atlanta. Now that was almost 38 years ago so I am not sure how many passengers would travel now. There was a petition at the time to get the State of Georgia to help subsidize the Nancy Hanks so Amtrak would continue to operate it, but it never went anywhere.

 

[Bill Haithcoat]

[The Nancy Hanks sure didn't have many passengers]

When I rode the Nancy Hanks in the late 1960s until through February, 1971, it was quite crowded. Since it left Atlanta at 6PM, it carried many passengers that had been shopping or spent the weekend in Atlanta traveling to many of the small communities where the train stopped. It carried a Dome Coach, two 60 seat standard coaches and a Diner Lounge. I remember lots of people getting off in Savannah about midnight. The same thing happened in reverse on the return trip. Lots of passengers boarding to go to Atlanta. Also a number of passengers changing to other trains in Atlanta. Now that was almost 38 years ago so I am not sure how many passengers would travel now. There was a petition at the time to get the State of Georgia to help subsidize the Nancy Hanks so Amtrak would continue to operate it, but it never went anywhere.

Though I never rode it myself,I, too,am of the impression that the Nancy Hanks had quite good business for many years. One, I know there used to be lots of shoppers spend the afternoon in Atlanta specifcially shopping at Rich's(well known S.E. deparment store right in the middle of the two downtown railroad stations in ATL.) Also a lot of shopping at Davidson's, which later became Macy's.

I know one thing. When I mvoed to Atlanta, anytime I told people I was a railfan, the one train they mention most fequently is the Nancy. Head and shoulders above all other trains combined.

 

[wayman]

One thing for sure--go ahead now and take this to the bank.
If EVER........ EVER........ trains are restored from Atlanta to Florida, or, from Atlanta to Chicago, I will walk down to the station as soon as I hear about it and be first in line, even if it is two months before start-up. :lol: :lol:

And I will hop on the Crescent to Atlanta and join you on that inaugural trip to Florida (or, miracle of miracles, Chicago)! The Florida connection I can actually see happening in the next decade or two if the political winds blow right....

 

[VentureForth]

Unfortunately, I would be afraid that any Miami-ATL-(CHI) probably wouldn't go through Savannah, but rather shoot up straight from Jesup. I just don't think that the old Nancy Hawks rail is good enough for timely pax service without a major, expensive upgrade.

I don't think you can extend the Palmetto past Jacksonville without completely messing up the schedule. I think you could barely keep the current schedule and two trainsets if you go to JAX, but if you take it to Miami, then you'll need a third trainset. So, if they want a third trainset anyway, I think that MIA - ATL via SAV plus extending the Palmetto to JAX would be great.

Savannah needs to get their act together and really clean up their station area and start running connecting shuttles from the station to the downtown Greyhound and CATS system.

Savannah's station is really in the wrong place. Unfortunately, a residential area between Mills B Ln and Stately Ave hinders a descent multimodal station from being built...

If Brunswick can built a spectacular air terminal that accomodates all of around 100 people per day, I can only imagine what Savannah could do if they took rail seriously.

 

[VentureForth]

If you were to route a new train all the way from Chicago to Miami, how would you do it? Would you try to share as much commonality with exisiting service that you could, or would you try to incorporate all new stops? Base it on a legacy service, or try something completely new?

My thought right now would be to hit the biggest cities in the shortest route. To drive, it would be CHI - Indianapolis - Louisville, KY - Bowling Green - Nashville - Chatanooga - ATL - Macon - Valdosta - Gainesville, FL - Orlando - West Palm - Miami.

Not a bad route, but going through Savannah would be tough. CSuX really has a bad passenger route through SE Georgia. Too bad there isn't a coastline route all between JAX and SAV.

 

[Crescent Mark]

That's a great route....I'd like that.

Anyway, I wasn't trying to force my opinion on anyone that the Nancy Hanks had a bad ridership or anything. http://www.mindspring.com/~teeth/caution/aboard0123.htm is where I got that info from.

 

[Bill Haithcoat]

That's a great route....I'd like that.
Anyway, I wasn't trying to force my opinion on anyone that the Nancy Hanks had a bad ridership or anything. http://www.mindspring.com/~teeth/caution/aboard0123.htm is where I got that info from.

Thanks for sharing that. Of course that date was the beginning of Amtrak, with most trains discontinued all over the country. It's low ridership, at the end, was very typical of many,many trains. I don't think too many trains received that kind of going out party.

On that same day, I was on the last southbound Georgian,traveling from Chattanooga to arrive at the Union Station in Atlanta. The Nancy used the Terminal Station.

There was no fanfare at all on my train yet it had been tremendously popular just a few years before. There had even been a huge billboard advertising The Georgian over the Spring Street viaduct between the two downtown stations.

 

[AmtrakWPK]

I would extend Palmetto on down the FEC to Miami. If you mess with the current route of Star or Meteor through Central Florida, then you require a connection at JAX or SAV, because Meteor and Star do NOT take the same route, and do NOT cover the same stations, North and West of SAV. Right now there is a one-seat ride using either the Star or the Meteor from existing stations in Florida to both routes. It seems to me to make more sense, and yes it would require another trainset or two, to extend Palmetto (which of course used to go to Miami as the Palmetto, and before that as the Silver Palm, with full amenities (Diner, Sleepers, etc.) down the FEC to Miami. The FEC route could probably make better time through Florida, although I think somebody pointed out the need for cab signals. I believe FEC is all concrete ties, probably giving a better ride especially at higher speeds. And as the (mentioned earlier) draft agreement from Amtrak and FEC and Florida to look into starting FEC-based Amtrak service, it will require some sidings, and some stations to be built. Perhaps the schedules could be set up so that it could connect with the Star for those on the FEC route that wanted a Star-covered destination, or vice-versa. Right now I understand that to get to Daytona Beach by Amtrak you have to take a cab from Deland station. That's a LONG cab ride. From South of JAX to WPB, taking Amtrak is really impractical. I would not be at all surprised to see nice passenger counts on that route. Go one step further; establish a NOL-JAX (replacing the eastern segment of the Sunset), and arrange Star/Meteor/Palmetto/Sunset-replacement schedules for connections westward to NOL and Eastward from NOL for those trains. That would also give you CHI-MIA again, via NOL.

 

[VentureForth]

A great article yesterday from The Jacksonville Examiner with a nice photo of the Beach Grove inspection car.

Funny. I started this thread nearly two years ago. They're looking for three more years before service starts (assuming a new congress doesn't kill all funding for everything). And this article talks about "record time" to get things done. Excuse me, but the article said that they got their funding application on the deadline! But I guess as bureaucracies go, that's par...