Food going to be cut???

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RailFanNebraska

Service Attendant
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Jan 24, 2006
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ok i have talked to one of my friends and he told me that all food service on the LD trains is going to be cut on June or July 1st if it isnt profitable by then? is this true, im thinking about taking an empire builder trip this summer ... well i want food onboard :eek: :(

I dont know, have any of y'all heard anything about this, i know there is rumors that food service is going to be cut, the question is when .... ahhhhhh !!!
 
Yes, that's what I, OBS and many others have been warning for months now. This is old news. The trend now for Amtrak is to abolish all onboard food, sleeping car and checked baggage service. This is the agenda of the Amtrak Board of Directors to comply with Congressional appropriation mandates to end years of so-called "losses" by the operation of traditional passenger train emenities. It is the goal of Amtrak to turn the company into a segmented system of corridor coach trains running in or near major urban centers and leaving rural America without rail service.

The current changes by the company to devise "new" food service methods is there way to attempting to save and operate some type of food service onboard without having the labor costs being at the focal point of the Inspector General's office that has the "mandate" to turn off Amtrak's public subsidy if it doesn't "reform" itself by June 1. Unfortunately, with the current administration very anti-Amtrak, the Secretary of Transportation won't be satisfied with anything Amtrak does other than cut off the service and abolish all food, sleeper and other "entertainment" costs borne by the company.
 
Unfortunately, with the current administration very anti-Amtrak, the Secretary of Transportation won't be satisfied with anything Amtrak does other than cut off the service and abolish all food, sleeper and other "entertainment" costs borne by the company.
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Are there any Democratic, or Republican, potential Presidential candidates out there who are Amtrak freindly and, if elected, could turn the whole thing around? Anyone we should start supporting, NOW, who would be on Amtrak's side?
 
RailFanNebraska said:
ok i have talked to one of my friends and he told me that all food service on the LD trains is going to be cut on June or July 1st if it isnt profitable by then? is this true, im thinking about taking an empire builder trip this summer ... well i want food onboard :eek: :(
I dont know, have any of y'all heard anything about this, i know there is rumors that food service is going to be cut, the question is when .... ahhhhhh !!!
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Nebraska, you are the one who started a thread entitled "What are Your Plans For Amtrak" earlier here on the forums. How are you not aware of this? I specifically made that clear in my posting regarding that subject! This is OLD old news now!

As stated in my posting in that topic you started for discussion....

quote Amtrak OBS Employee.....

"They are going to cut all ammenties on board the trains! These include sleeper and dining car services! This is Congressional mandate, meaning it is LAW and there is nothing or no one who is gonna be able to change it in time"

OBS...
 
Nebraska, I forgot to provide an answer to your "when" question regarding food service. That answer is "it is in the process of doing that right now as we speak!" This is why the "diner lite" deal is taking shape and is moving into the middle stages of implentation! Now don't get the idea there is gonna be absolutely no food service on long distance trains! There will be some type of food service involved no matter whoever actually runs the train if there is a train to speak of by that time! OBS...
 
Here is language from PL109-115, the FY2005 Transportation Appropriation Act.

Nothing in this says food and sleepers must go. Some creative financing should keep them alive, cause as we all know - and the managers should also realize - no food means no passengers.

And remember, this is the FY2005-2006 budget. A new budget for FY2006-2007 should be starting soon and will become effective October 2006, and the language could very well change.

A political frenzy created this language, but calmer heads will ensure it dones not return for next budget cycle......

Provided further, That the Corporation is directed to achieve savings through operating efficiencies including, but not limited to, modifications to food and beverage service and first class service: Provided further, That the Inspector General of the Department of Transportation shall report to the House and Senate Committees on Appropriations beginning on January 3, 2006 and quarterly thereafter with estimates of the savings accrued as a result of all operational reforms instituted by the National Railroad Passenger Corporation: Provided further, That if the Inspector General cannot certify that the Corporation has achieved operational savings by July 1, 2006, none of the funds in this Act may be used after July 1, 2006, to subsidize the net losses of food and beverage service and sleeper car service on any Amtrak route
 
well i knew it was going to be cut, i didnt know it was june 1st.

my friend did try to say that they might try to save food and sleepers on the cali zephyr, coast starlight and empire builder, as these are amtraks, atleast the starlight and empire, 'premier' service.

I forgot who pointed this out, but they did this back in the 80's and lost almost all passengers on the LD trains.

and idk why they want to cut sleepers, they are 10% of the train and 1/4 of total revenue for the LD lines.

why do our politicians hate amtrak so.
 
Daveyb99, everyone understands what the actual funding "language" says. Our concern and personal observations as employees is actual real time "shutdown" of these services now. It is the view of the powers at be within Amtrak that the legislation means "end the service." With the implementation of diner-lite, Amtrak is developing ways to create a fast-food style single food service car that, over a few years, can be outsourced to the private sector. The physical changes being made to the dining cars and the lounge cars are making the possible implementation of an outsources separate dining car and lounge car impossible. I expect to see a "Cascades" style food service system setup over time. On single level trains, it requires a "table car" and on the Superliners, just one car using both upper and lower level service counters and public eating spaces.

As for the sleeping cars, it's just way too early. I expect, if the anti-rail sentiment in Washington doesn't change in the next few years, that an attack on the sleepers will come, reducing the whole revenue stream of the long distance trains, increasing the "cost per passenger subsidy" and giving more ammunition to the bean counters out to kill those trains. :angry:
 
Good Grief - How can they not be making money at the prices ther are charging?? I have First Class Tickets for Last week in June. Silver, Capital Limited and Southwest Chief. If they drop the sleeping and dining car there no way they are going to get me on a train for four days.
 
Now, If sleeper's are to be refinanced, would there be any sense in running a slumber coach type deal, with basic amenities, and one attendant per 2 cars with no included meals?

What is it that makes sleeper's lose so much? Does anyone have any figures to support this thought that they cost much? As much as one pays to travel in sleeping cars, you'd think that they would cut their losses some...

Does anyone have any insight into what exactly makes them cost so much?

Jon Parker
 
I like your idea Capital Limited 29, but 42 beds per Superliner Sleeper is already way too much for one person versus 84 per attendant. No way!

I do like your idea of slumbercoach, especially getting away from a dining car experience. I could see a market for a sleeper market that is like a "Econo Lodge" on rails and available food and beverage are available in the Diner-lite near by. If Amtrak continues to charge the same for a room, call it first class and don't provide emenities for the money, they'll kill the sleeper market so fast that Norman Minetta wouldn't know what hit him! <_<
 
:( hopefully this will only last a year, if Amtrak actually goes through with it (Somehow i think they might slide by on it, hopefully). It might have editorial backlash if they dont serve food on the trains. 55% of the public supports increaseing amtraks subsidy (poll taken it late 2005), people dont really care that its unprofitable.

i just dont want to eat fast food, particually if i have payed for a sleeper. If i get a sleeper i want first class service, these includes a nice meal when I on the train.

if im on a train for even 12 hours +, i dont want to eat patato chips and snickers to get by.

Hopefully it wont be cut on the trains i listened earlier, and i may still be able to go on the empire builder lol.
 
RailFanNebraska said:
ok i have talked to one of my friends and he told me that all food service on the LD trains is going to be cut on June or July 1st if it isnt profitable by then?
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Trainboy: looking at the initial post, some do not understand what the APPROPRIATIONS LANGUAGE says. That is why I included it in my earlier post.

And I stress that because it only has to do with funds, not any further. The language says there must be improvement or "funds from this Act may not be used... ..." You can find this language throughout funding bills. It does not say "cut the service or else". It says:

That the Corporation is directed to achieve savings through operating efficiencies including, but not limited to, modifications to food and beverage service and first class service

The IG is to report quarterly on the savings accrued.

While it is true there are enemies lurking in the bushes, I think calmer heads will prevail when it gets to the point of making a decision on two of the thousands of possible area to find cost savings.
 
I hope your right Daveyb99, but I see managers running around like chickens with their heads chopped off trying to "cut costs" so the company get their funding to they get to keep their own salaries. The train manager in NOL makes no secret that service cuts on the CONO are directly related to her bonus earned in the last quarter for cutting costs, such as food service and first class emenities. She's the only one I know that makes you count how many coach pillow slips you use to measure the true cost of coach passengers. Just before my leaving the crew base after the furlough, they were discussing the cutting of coach pillows from the train. That's how much they want to nickle and dime this "appropriation language" within the ranks of Amtrak management. :angry:
 
im just really annoyed ... alot of these is companies like union pacific that really want to get trains off there lines i would guess, they know cutting first class and dinner service would do this. Once again, the bush admin. bows to corp. demands. and the freight rail roads get a easy ride out once again of passenger rail service ...

... sigh ... :(
 
trainboy325 said:
I hope your right Daveyb99, but I see managers running around like chickens with their heads chopped off trying to "cut costs" so the company get their funding to they get to keep their own salaries.
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I work for a government agency and we have the same things happening: increase productivity and account for all costs.

Some things are accountable, some not. Counting pillow cases is the sign of a manager who just does not get it.

Same with productivity. Two agents handling 200 passengers are productive, but does handling 100 become unproductive? Does not wash. If two trains pass through your station each day and two people have to be there each time, then they are as productive as they can be reagardless of what they did and for how long and for how many.

If Amtrak can get their books in order, they might get an idea of what it actually costs to do business. As I said before, cutting diners and sleepers look good on paper, but will cause a greater loss in revenue than can be imagined. Imagine if American or Delta cutout first class seats - their frequent flyers would revolt, resulting in a drop in revenue.

No guarantees, but as I said, in the end the diners and sleepers remain.
 
trainboy: can you verify that someone in NOL received a bonus and is part of management? If so, is this from actual knowledge or the claims of the management person?
 
Yes, it is the benefit issued under authority of the Amtrak Manager's union contract negotiated by ARSA (Airline and Railroad Supervisors Association). In the case of our crew base and train service managers in NOL, their "bonus" is posted on the employee bulletin board as required by the the ARSA contract regarding cost-benefit analysis and savings reports issued by Amtrak's Inspector General.

Secondly, I also work for a federal agency as well outside of Amtrak. We too are having our own share of "cutbacks," but no one who's got permanent status or term status is being laid off and temporary employees are being reduced to their schedule hours, not one minute more. The difference between Amtrak the rest of the federal bureaucracy is that Amtrak employees aren't civil servants, our pay comes from a payroll fund in Amtrak's total budget (bank account in the red). Another thing too about Amtrak is when they say they're on the verge of bankruptcy, it isn't because they just can't pay their bills on time, but rather there is no money in the bank to pay for anything, like the employees that operate the railroad. A bankrupted Amtrak won't operate trains because every Amtrak employee knows that they won't get paid on Friday. It's happened twice to to a buddy of mine a few years back. He got paid after filing a grievance with the union two years later. Secondly, since Amtrak's service providers already know that they're dealing with a risky client, when Amtrak says they don't have money, they won't give product as they now there's no way they'll ever pay it back (again, this has happened hundreds of times in the last 5 years). Ask the two diesel fuel providers in JAX, when Amtrak didn't pay the bill, the train ran to MIA and WAS on reserve with the hope and prayer that it wouldn't run out of fuel because the fuel companies wouldn't give Amtrak a single cent in credit to put fuel in the locomotives.

Believe what you want about the future of Amtrak. But let it be said AGAIN that if you want to ride a traditional long distance train with all the goodies, you better do it soon! Period. <_<
 
Oh great. We are due to take the Empire to Seattle and back in June. We leave on June 6th and leave Seattle on the l7th or l8th. We have a sleeper (two people). Should I be looking for different transportation? I don't want to eat garbage food for a couple days. I was hoping the food was better than the Cardinal food was this past summer.
 
Then that is for sure (July lst)? I thought some people said June lst. Maybe I misunderstood.
 
Well that is better (at least for us). I guess if we are going to take the train and have a sleeper and hopefully decent food, then we are doing it at the right time.

Are they definitely getting rid of the better food or is it that it may change the lst of July?
 
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