Future Amtrak Equipment and ADA ideas

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jis said:
Trains like the Heartland Flyer will most likely get Cascades-like Diesel Airos eventually, unless they become more reasonably innovative and get a FLIRT or something like that. Texas has already gone that route on a few routes around Dallas so it might happen.
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When the Heartland Flyer gets extended so it connects with something, hopefully it will support larger consists.
 
Amtrak25 said:
Quite an exaggeration. Superliner coaches have 74 seats. Amfleet-2 havd 60. 4 single levels will still have 18 more seats than 3 bi-levels. That's one more coach per consist and perhaps 3 sleepers instead of 2. With 2 food service and a baggage car, train grows from 8 to 10 cars, which is 25%, not 50%..
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In an era where long haul trains can be dispatched without a lounge or baggage car and a sleeper full of OBS it may be less of an exaggeration than it first appears. I've watched Western trains shrink from long to medium to short. They look more like yard moves in the low season. That said I'll be dead and buried by the time Amtrak replaces the Western fleet so hopefully you get whatever you want.
 
danasgoodstuff said:
When the Heartland Flyer gets extended so it connects with something, hopefully it will support larger consists.
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It does connect with the Texas Eagle now (at Fort Worth), but I imagine what you're talking about is the route being extended to connect with additional routes (maybe the City of New Orleans to the East, or the Southwest Chief to the West or Northwest?).
 
Devil's Advocate said:
In an era where long haul trains can be dispatched without a lounge or baggage car and a sleeper full of OBS it may be less of an exaggeration than it first appears. I've watched Western trains shrink from long to medium to short. They look more like yard moves in the low season. That said I'll be dead and buried by the time Amtrak replaces the Western fleet so hopefully you get whatever you want.
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Frankly, what will happen in your and my lifetime is pretty fixed with the current RFP which is the subject of a thread dedicated to it. This thread by its very nature, being about what could/should happen when the acquisitions of the current RFP come up for replacement. So by its very nature it is about stuff that will happen possibly well after you and I are not around. We are talking about stuff that might come to pass 30-40 years from now in the LD part of the Amtrak business. Until then whatever is acquired based on the current RFP through initial order and options is what will hold the fort out West, for places where bi-levels are used. There may still be some single levels thrown in here and there in minor routes.

And East of the Miss it will most likely be pretty much be single level except the Auto Train and maybe one other train.
 
jis said:
Trains like the Heartland Flyer will most likely get Cascades-like Diesel Airos eventually, unless they become more reasonably innovative and get a FLIRT or something like that. Texas has already gone that route on a few routes around Dallas so it might happen.
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This is how Internet conversations get off track (snicker snicker). @TrimetWESFan1003 mentioned the HARTFORD line and the Valley FLYER, nothing about the HEARTLAND FLYER... The Valley Flyer runs on the Hartford Line along the Connecticut River (the same route as the Vermonter) from New Haven to Greenfield MA, no where near Texas or Oklahoma. It is all single level and there are almost certainly clearance issues for Superliner cars, including NEC cat clearance in New Haven. So the problems and opportunities for these lines are very different from the Heartland Flyer, which is currently all Superliner equipment.

It would be great if Amtrak could find common equipment that would work in both the east and west, but I think that is very unlikely and is, for the next several decades, a pipe-dream. Amtrak needs new and additional equipment NOW, not in the 2050's.
 
danasgoodstuff said:
When the Heartland Flyer gets extended so it connects with something, hopefully it will support larger consists.
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Ideally the Heartland Flyer should be made a Houston to Kansas City train and be equipped out of the LD bi-level pool. OTOH if it remains a FTW - OKC or Newton train it might remain a Regional equipment train or whatever Texas decides for it. So its equipment for the future RFP eventually will depend quite a bit on what the route structure is 20-30 years out.
 
John Santos said:
This is how Internet conversations get off track (snicker snicker). @TrimetWESFan1003 mentioned the HARTFORD line and the Valley FLYER, nothing about the HEARTLAND FLYER... The Valley Flyer runs on the Hartford Line along the Connecticut River (the same route as the Vermonter) from New Haven to Greenfield MA, no where near Texas or Oklahoma. It is all single level and there are almost certainly clearance issues for Superliner cars, including NEC cat clearance in New Haven. So the problems and opportunities for these lines are very different from the Heartland Flyer, which is currently all Superliner equipment.

It would be great if Amtrak could find common equipment that would work in both the east and west, but I think that is very unlikely and is, for the next several decades, a pipe-dream. Amtrak needs new and additional equipment NOW, not in the 2050's.
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Too bad past FRA compliant DMUs from Colorado Railcar and Nippon Sharyo are no longer being made. Then Amtrak could just get those for the Springfield line trains. A 2 car DMU train would be better than a train of 2 unpowered cars plus a separate engine to pull them.
 
jis said:
And East of the Miss it will most likely be pretty much be single level except the Auto Train and maybe one other train.
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Possibly three? A Superliner Capitol/Star combo soon and then maybe a new Chicago - Miami train via Atlanta before we die.

Seems like the coming combo is probably going to be single level however.

And it would be great if the Meteor did a split at Orlando and served Tampa when this change happens.
 
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Introducing the Siemens Sightseer Lounge! Can’t sit in your coach seat and window for a full trip? Tired of freight trains delaying your train? Need to get up and walk around? I sure do! So take a walk to the Venture Sightseer Lounge and enjoy a spacious railcar dedicated to viewing the beautiful surroundings! Forget about those freight trains and enjoy comfy seating and spacious windows as you view the mountains of the Cascade Range, the waters of the Bay Area, and more!

This concept takes a standard Venture coach and enlarges the windows, as well as adds windows to the roof of the car. Like the Superliner Sightseer Lounge, the windows on the top do not wrap around the entire roof for what I assume is due to maintaining the structure of the car. For now, I have only made a San Joaquins and Cascades car, but I plan on making a Midwest and Phase VII Lounge, as well as an interior diagram once I get the measurements of everything. The lounge would be pretty close to the Superliner interior anyways.

What do you think?

- Original Venture diagram is by siemenscharger7 on imgur
- Sightseer Lounge concept, edits (such as windows), and applying paint schemes are by me

image.png
 
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Although a noble undertaking that would be popular with passengers, the days of customized railcars may be relegated to our memories. Off-the-shelf is the current preferred business model and I don't think Siemens could be persuaded to do such a limited run nor would Amtrak be prepared to pay the likely outrageous asking price to do so. Single level observation-style cars are available from other manufacturers for the European market and might be a better starting point.

29619-34e306709652d4357038d7461de26df1.jpg
 
TrimetWESFan1003 said:
If there was a DMU version of the Venture cab car design, they could be used on the Hartford Line and Valley Flyer trains so the 2 car trains used on those lines wouldn't need to use a seperate engine to pull only 2 cars.
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Based on most of the talk related to the Hartford Line they will likely be moving away from the 2 car trains over time and replacing those with more through trains that will use the standard Airo dual mode trainsets. One thing that is hinted at with that is that Springfield, not New Haven, is listed as getting major work to enable servicing the Airo equipment.
 
cocojacoby said:
It's a capacity and experience thing. Superliners are way more efficient and have much more revenue space that helps the bottom line and should lower costs and prices. The Superliner diners and lounges are fantastic cars. This is "experiential" train travel. Superliners are impressive even 50 years later.

As far as eastern LD trains, the Viewliner diner is not fine. It has inadequate capacity to serve a full train especially with the reduction in seating due to the ADA open space and don't get me started on the crew taking up space and the two trash boxes bumping around in that open area. As an exclusive "First Class Lounge" it works and it is a very nice space if the crew allows you to hang around. But is that the intent? Should coach passengers be excluded and stuck with microwave cafe food? Maybe with the prices sleeper passengers pay it is. They should get free quality snacks and Happy Hour drink prices and make it a real First Class experience.

As far as the sleepers go, I actually prefer the Viewliner sleeping rooms to the claustrophobic Superliners. Amtrak did a great job designing those rooms. But again capacity is much much lower in a Viewliner than a Superliner train overall but in this case the Viewliner experience gets the nod.

Perhaps a combination would work best for the eastern LDs? Viewliner sleepers and new Viewliner coaches bookending a bilevel core consisting of 14' 6" high full-length bilevel diner, bilevel lounge, and a bilevel cafe. ADA access would be possible with elevators. The bilevel core cars would have adequate headroom on both levels and have skylight roofs to make them feel even more spacious.

I think that would work best for the eastern LDs but that's just my dream a this point.
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The bi level cars cost a lot more so I'm not sure on the "efficiency" aspect. The diners are rarely ever full anymore under Amtraks methods of operating them so I don't understand the inadequate capacity comment on the Viewliner diners. We did just fine with single level diners for decades. I love the Superliners but trying to force them into the East makes little sense with all the issues associated.
 
Libby said:
Why?
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Raleigh and Charlotte have new (Charlotte isn't open yet but the platforms exist) stations with platforms that aren't on the main freight tracks, that were built expecting to handle ten or more daily round trips, all using single level equipment. At that point you see a decent bit of operational efficiency from level boarding.

Notably NC was never part of the Next Generation Passenger Car failed bilevel order, either. Of likely Venture car users, NC might be the only state purchaser who wanted Ventures as their first choice (Amtrak itself is not a state, they also like single levels for the East Coast).
 
A database of platform heights and lengths would be interesting. Amtrak settled with the federal government over ADA compliance, and now with IIJA funding may complete work on all stations by 2029. Just identifying which entities control which stations took a while. In one case a state DOT said they fixed the station and parking lot, but the Amtrak compliance office said they did not. You can search the web for ADA Stations Program (ADASP), and get both Amtrak's biannual reports and some Amtrak OIG reports.

At that level of reporting, it doesn't show whether a station has high-level platforms or just lifts. But Amtrak liking high-level platforms for new work or rebuilds in the East is sensible. The Amtrak Station Program and Planning Guidelines(*) sure makes it sound that way.
... at new and altered station platforms... Where level-entry boarding cannot be provided due to freight-clearance requirements or mixed equipment, the passenger railroad operator must submit to the FRA or FTA a narrative that shows how they intend to meet the performance standard. Amtrak will submit narratives on the behalf of external project sponsors designing and constructing platforms.
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Easiest way is to build it best. And everyone benefits at busy stations.

(*) The Guidelines document, which has almost everything you'd want to know about platforms, for example, is courtesy of NY State DOT. Over at Amtrak's Great American Stations you'd have to fill out a form to request access.
 
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