Get on the phone guys...call your senator to vote against deleting HSR

[Mike S.]

From NARP:

To NARP Members, February 3, 2009--

The Senate may vote this afternoon or this evening on a "kill-high-speed-rail" amendment by Senator Christopher Bond (R-MO) to the economic recovery legislation. (No votes will occur before 4 PM Eastern.)

Please contact your Senators with a message like this, preferably by telephone, changing to your own words wherever possible:

Please vote against the Bond amendment to eliminate the $2 billion for high speed rail from S. 1, the American Recovery and Reinvestment Plan. Our nation needs to develop U.S. passenger rail. The high-speed rail provision will put people to work immediately and provide long-lasting benefits for our country. The rail component of the economic recovery bill is already a tiny fraction of what is proposed for highways and should not be watered down further.

Please telephone if you can. FAX is second choice, e-mail is questionable unless perhaps to a Hill staffer with whom you have an ongoing relationship (or if it is the only thing you can do--at least it alerts your senators when the next, similar issue comes up, which is better than taking no action.)

Call the Capitol Hill Switchboard at 202-224-3121 or go to the Senate website and choose your state from the drop-down menu on the top right of the page.

Ross B. Capon

President

National Association of Railroad Passengers

GUYS, NOW IS THE TIME TO MAKE YOUR VOICE HEARD...not just sit around and hope something good happens for rail in America.

 

[HP_Lovecraft]

The high-speed rail provision will put people to work immediately and provide long-lasting benefits for our country.

While I want a high-speed rail as much as the next person, the $2 billion will not put people to work immediatly. The $2billion is grants for STATES, to encourage them to do research and planning into high-speed rail projects. It is pork, and nothing usefull will come from that.

Its not for infrastructure improvements, which is part of the seperate $30 billion pot.

Not that is really matters. This bill is likely DOA in the Senate. Between condom pork, and trade-war pork, and anti prayer pork, very little of this bill has anything to do with jobs, or improvements to the economy. The majority of the population is now against this $1.2 trillion monster, and politicians, unfortunetly, sway in the wind like a field full of wheat.

 

[George Harris]

We have had enough planning and studies to get us through the next century. Plus, most of the "planning and studies" have been done by political cronies that would not know a good rail system if they fell on the track. A lot of these plans and studies contain statement and conclusions that are laughable when read by someone who has been involved in a real one. Pick one or a few of the realistic lines and do design and start construction.

 

[zoltan]

Indeed; the most effective measure would be to identify key city to city corridors and getting incremental improvements made starting now, and gradually make improvements one at a time as funding comes up. The $2 billion could go to a small amount of investment towards this.

 

[Joel N. Weber II]

Indeed; the most effective measure would be to identify key city to city corridors and getting incremental improvements made starting now

Is that same maximum effectiveness from incremental improvements the reason the average speed for America's fastest train, the Acela Express, is a mere 69 MPH from BOS to WAS, far less than first world countries?

 

[MrFSS]

We have had enough planning and studies to get us through the next century. Plus, most of the "planning and studies" have been done by political cronies that would not know a good rail system if they fell on the track. A lot of these plans and studies contain statement and conclusions that are laughable when read by someone who has been involved in a real one. Pick one or a few of the realistic lines and do design and start construction.

George - if you could pick one - which city pair would it be?

 

[Tony]

Please tell your US Senator to vote for eliminating all the pork! And yes, that means dropping the $850,000,000 for Amtrak too.

While I support Amtrak like others here, the shear amount of pork being dumped into this Economic Stimulus bill is beyond ridiculous.

Sorry, this isn't the time for Senators to chant their typical "me, me, me", and really need to put us first for a change.

So, again, tell your US Senator to vote for eliminating all the pork!

 

[Neil_M]

condom pork

:blink:

 

[Shawn]

Wow...you support Amtrak, yet you want the $850million cut? Interesting.

Please tell your US Senator to vote for eliminating all the pork! And yes, that means dropping the $850,000,000 for Amtrak too.
While I support Amtrak like others here, the shear amount of pork being dumped into this Economic Stimulus bill is beyond ridiculous.

Sorry, this isn't the time for Senators to chant their typical "me, me, me", and really need to put us first for a change.

So, again, tell your US Senator to vote for eliminating all the pork!

 

[Ryan]

Sorry, this isn't the time for Senators to chant their typical "me, me, me", and really need to put us first for a change.

By perhaps for a bill despised by a vocal minority that will create jobs and start to turn this economy around?

Yeah, I can get behind that.

 

[HP_Lovecraft]

By perhaps for a bill despised by a vocal minority that will create jobs and start to turn this economy around?

The NYT is reporting that many of the "majority" are also against it, as is the population.

How exactly does it create jobs?

Billion dollars for global warming research.

half billion for more digital tv converters

40 billion for broadband development

81 billion to expand medicade

80 billion to non-taxpayers

66 billion to schools

etc

Pork, pork, and endless pork. Yes, some of those things are worthwhile items, but they still will not create jobs. They are just buying themselves votes, as well as paying back all the special interests groups that put them in office (ie like the rules forcing usa-made steel).

 

[PRR 60]

I think you can be for Amtrak and against piling pet projects, including Amtrak related projects, into a measure that is designed to get people back to work in the next 90 days. Amtrak funding should stand on its own merits.

Sadly, this is typical NARP. No matter how bad a plan is, if it benefits Amtrak, it must be supported. And, if a plan it doesn't benefit Amtrak, no matter how beneficial it might be, even to rail travel (ARC, for example), it must be bad.

 

[Ryan]

By perhaps for a bill despised by a vocal minority that will create jobs and start to turn this economy around?

The NYT is reporting that many of the "majority" are also against it, as is the population.

Polling data disagrees with you and the NYT:http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2009/02/sti...-all-these.html

How exactly does it create jobs? Billion dollars for global warming research.

half billion for more digital tv converters

40 billion for broadband development

81 billion to expand medicade

80 billion to non-taxpayers

66 billion to schools

Who's going to do the research? (scientists)

Who's going to deploy the broadband? (utilities workers)

You've got a point on the medicaid. (although I spelled it right)

Non-taxpayers? You'll have to be more specific, I can't even begin to research this one

What're the schools going to do with this money? (pay teachers, renovate buildings (construction jobs!), build new schools (more construction jobs!))

Rules for using American made steel? Duh, we're trying to build AMERICAN jobs here - why have the money go to foreign workers when it can be kept here at home?

 

[PetalumaLoco]

Rules for using American made steel? Duh, we're trying to build AMERICAN jobs here - why have the money go to foreign workers when it can be kept here at home?

The deal with steel is the US can't produce enough for our own use. If we ban foreign steel, the cost to us for steel goes up. That may cost us jobs. Supply and demand.

But I'm with you on the other points.

 

[birdy]

$2 billion is about what Brazil is spending on rail in their stimulus package. So, we won't stay even with the First World countries on rail. If the neo-cons have their way we won't stay at the top of the Third World countries either. My new bogie: Bolivia. As a fallback position, lets shoot for Bourkina Fasso.

I don't get this "pork" charge. How, exactly do you spend $800 bil in an Apolitical way? Since when did the neo-cons convince the mainstream media that they hold the mantle of non-partisan good government all of a sudden?

The fact of the matter is, the liberals won the election, so money will be spent on things like family planning counselors more, and prison guards less. From an economic standpoint it doesn't matter much whether you spend it on one or the other.

I'd dearly like to see more of the money spent on infra-structure. There's no particular reason to think the recession will be all over in three years. We are already nearly 30 years behind, and our ability to pony up more dough for a second round will be sorely tested. If we don't do it now, it won't get done in our lifetimes and we really will sink to the Third World.

P.S. already wrote my senators. Its easy, but I had to use the local fax number to make it work. They really don't like you to fax them any more.

 

[Ryan]

The deal with steel is the US can't produce enough for our own use. If we ban foreign steel, the cost to us for steel goes up. That may cost us jobs. Supply and demand.

A very valid point, and one we can have a good discussion about. There's probably a better way of writing it that balances the requirement for American steel with the realities of American steel production. Perhaps some really smart people can take a swag at the amount of steel needed for all these projects, compare that to our capacity to produce it and say that "xx% of the steel must be American in origin" to maximize use of our steel without driving demand.

But, simplistic complaints like "It's all pork and I hate it and so should you" get simplistic replies.

Also, I missed the rebuttal of the DTV converters complaint. I'll concede that it isn't going to bring about jobs, but it's something that the mismanagement and bungling to date needs to be rectified ASAP so we can get this transition behind us and free up spectrum for vital public service communications (you know, to keep America safe?).

 

[PetalumaLoco]

GUYS, NOW IS THE TIME TO MAKE YOUR VOICE HEARD...not just sit around and hope something good happens for rail in America.

The amendment failed.

My mistake, bad info. See below.

 

[wayman]

GUYS, NOW IS THE TIME TO MAKE YOUR VOICE HEARD...not just sit around and hope something good happens for rail in America.

The amendment failed.

We're talking about amendment 162, right? THOMAS is still showing it as introduced but not formally discussed nor voted upon....

 

[PetalumaLoco]

GUYS, NOW IS THE TIME TO MAKE YOUR VOICE HEARD...not just sit around and hope something good happens for rail in America.

The amendment failed.

We're talking about amendment 162, right? THOMAS is still showing it as introduced but not formally discussed nor voted upon....

Dang, you're right, I was looking at a different amendment by Bond.

Sorry about that! I'll edit that post.

 

[birdy]

Those "buy American" things usually violate our trade agreements. Its just as well. They are ungodly expensive. Besides, we do a lot of things like steel, pretty cheap these days. The way to get around it of course, is to do forward thinking projects that require an incremental improvement in technology, and therefore offer an opportunity to favor local vendors in subjective design-build contracts.

Our leaders seem determined to order a system worthy of Bangladesh, so that's not an option.

 

[Ryan]

The "buy American" provisions were softened last night (no more detail, just heard the headline on the local news radio station).

 

[Green Maned Lion]

Any money we spend that builds something is justifiable.

The New Deal created some jobs that involved one team of workers digging a ditch, and a team right behind it simply filling it up. *shrugs* If everyone gets back to work, the economy will start moving again. The economy moving again will create more useful and valid jobs. Pork?

BRING IT ON!

 

[amtrakwolverine]

lets see waste 91 million dollars on a study for high speed rail when we already know that making one will create jobs. its like this. its like spending 91 million dollars for someone to tell you that your grass is 2 feet high from not cutting it.

 

[sky12065]

By perhaps for a bill despised by a vocal minority that will create jobs and start to turn this economy around?

The NYT is reporting that many of the "majority" are also against it, as is the population.

How exactly does it create jobs?

Billion dollars for global warming research.

half billion for more digital tv converters

40 billion for broadband development

81 billion to expand medicade

80 billion to non-taxpayers

66 billion to schools

etc

Pork, pork, and endless pork. Yes, some of those things are worthwhile items, but they still will not create jobs. They are just buying themselves votes, as well as paying back all the special interests groups that put them in office (ie like the rules forcing usa-made steel).

Your right! Some of these items are worthwhile as is Amtrak's funding. Perhaps they would be better presented in separate bills so that they are judged and held accountable on their own merit instead of overbloating a single bill so that they can take attention away from and sneak in some of the pork unworthy of this legislation that they try to hide within the stimilus bill. Just read this paragraph taken out of a CNN article at http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/12/30/gop.stimulus/.

Citing fears that unjustifiable projects will receive funding in the stimulus bill, Republicans point to an 800-page report that the U.S. Conference of Mayors sent to Capitol Hill this month that seeks more than $73 billion for projects across the country, including a $4.8 million polar bear exhibit in Rhode Island and a $1.5 million water park ride in Miami, Florida.

 

[Green Maned Lion]

Citing fears that unjustifiable projects will receive funding in the stimulus bill, Republicans point to an 800-page report that the U.S. Conference of Mayors sent to Capitol Hill this month that seeks more than $73 billion for projects across the country, including a $4.8 million polar bear exhibit in Rhode Island and a $1.5 million water park ride in Miami, Florida.

So? They aren't needed, but they create jobs! Surely, this makes more sense then digging then filling ditches.