Government shutdown possible

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Anyone in or out of government that does not think the choice is Obamba's needs a lesson in the basic separation of powers.
Not really. If the Republican-led House and the Democratic-led Senate can't get together and pass a bill that's identical, there won't be anything for Obama to sign or not sign. Certainly he can try to influence the lawmakers into passing a bill that they can agree on and he can sign, but the ball is squarely in the Legislative Branch's court.
My point was that if the government is not funded so that the pot of money to continue is not there, then it is the executive branch that decides what to keep going and what to shut down. It had nothing to do with signing of the bill. That is why I made the specific example of TR's move. It is a lot easier for the President to get congress painted into a corner than the other way around.
 
If the Govt is shut down for six months, the least of our worries will be Amtrak..
Well, what else is going to happen if the government is shut down for 6 months?

That's like to the end of August.
Think about it for six months... No mail, no welfare or unemployment payments, no tax refunds or audits. No Pell Grant or Stafford loans can be processed for students, and payments cannot be credited. Flights will be at a minimum, Medicare medicaid and SSD/I pay,nets will be backed up for weeks. The US credit rating drops to AAA meaning we couldn't get more money if we needed it. The list goes on.
 
When it happened in 94 we were in much better economic shape, and it cost the taxpayers $400 million to get things running again. So much for fiscal responsibility.
 
Well, it appears that the government will actually shut down this time.

I'm bringing this thread back to the fore because I have new information. At the Mid-Atlantic NARP meeting at Union Station back in March, Amtrak's VP (Government Affairs) Joseph McHugh spoke. One of the questions was about the possibility of a government shutdown. He replied that Amtrak could survive for a while, but that without the continuing appropriations process, the railroad would eventually run out of cash.

This seems to me to be mirrored by the situation that the DC government faces. DC collects its own taxes and runs its own local government. However, because of the unique constitutional situation of the city, all DC tax revenue are reappropriated by Congress. Therefore, if the federal government shuts down, DC's local government will have to do so, also.

Hopefully the shutdown can be averted, or if not, will be short. And hopefully Amtrak won't be affected after all.
 
Hopefully the shutdown can be averted, or if not, will be short. And hopefully Amtrak won't be affected after all.
Seconded. According to my wife and .gov friends the water cooler talk is "It's gonna happen", but the thinking is that it'll be short and someone will cave.
Not looking forward to trying to live on 1 paycheck if it isn't short.
 
My heart goes out to all government employees if there is a shutdown. Folks need those paychecks to survive!
 
:help: Last time the "So Called" Fiscal Saviours in the TPub Party shut down the Govt. it cost Mr. Newt Gingrich the Speakership and the T-Pubs Control of Congress! Most Americans wouldnt want to go to work for Free which is what will happen to our Soldiers/Sailors, All so called Key Govt. Employees etc. but with the States Broke, the Economy on its knees and Tens of Millions of Americans Depending on Federal $$$ Flowing out of Washington (including the Rich and Corporations!) the Chickens will come home to Roost So to Speak when it happens! Be Careful What you Ask for, You might Just get it!! :excl: :excl: :excl:

BTW-Congress is Exempt :angry2: , they will still be Paid all Salary, Perks and Expenses, they are the closest thing we have to Royalty in this Country! Hope the LD Trains dont get Stranded in Places like Sanderson, Texas, Grits, Mississippi and Rhode Island! :giggle: :eek: :(

The rest of us need to throw all these Clowns out of office and take back the government, it belonmgs to us, not Corporations and the Rich! (Allegedly!)
 
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If a government shutdown occurs it will be largely symbolic. It may happnen for a few days but it will shortly pass. It will be done to illustate that unless something is done to curtail runaway spending, the USA will continue on the fast track to insolvency. Something needs to be done to eliminate government waste, earmarks and other things that do not serve the public interest. Amtrak should not be affected short term as they still have a revenue stream in ticket sales
 
i would assume amtrak would be open for biz.. we will still get mail - yes we will - cuz the post office is "self sufficient" (or something like that!)
 
If a government shutdown occurs it will be largely symbolic. It may happnen for a few days but it will shortly pass. It will be done to illustate that unless something is done to curtail runaway spending, the USA will continue on the fast track to insolvency. Something needs to be done to eliminate government waste, earmarks and other things that do not serve the public interest. Amtrak should not be affected short term as they still have a revenue stream in ticket sales
While the actual shutdown may represent greater political problems among other issues, there is absolutely nothing symbolic about the furloughing of non-essential federal employees and the suspension of non-essential government services, no matter how brief the length of time turns out to be.
 
If a government shutdown occurs it will be largely symbolic. It may happnen for a few days but it will shortly pass. It will be done to illustate that unless something is done to curtail runaway spending, the USA will continue on the fast track to insolvency. Something needs to be done to eliminate government waste, earmarks and other things that do not serve the public interest. Amtrak should not be affected short term as they still have a revenue stream in ticket sales
Or... It could be symbolic of the disfunction of Congress. It has nothing to do with debt, both sides could choose to keep running the Government on a stop gap measure if they wanted to--

Or we can do what Eric Cantor wants to do, burn the Constitution and whine about how he's right and he never gets his way.
 
Run away spending is not a problem. It is... a symptom. It is a symptom of the kind of stupid, pay-to-play, corrupt, small interest serving monolith our government has become. We are currently spending six tons of money on non-essential military items, such as acquisition of defense equipment clearly designed to protect us from the Soviet Union.

Clearly, we need not defend ourselves from a military power that ceased to exist 20 years ago. The only other enemy that the kind of large scale weapons we are acquiring would be useful against is China, who seems quite content taking us over economically, and seems disinterested in using such crude methods of dominance. The weapons we are trying to acquire are not needed, as such military battles are a thing of the past.

Next, taxes in this country are too damned low. Our citizens want services, and most governments are capable of providing these same services without going bankrupt. But our citizens don't wish to pay for them. Well, if I go to the supermarket and acquire a loaf of bread, I have to pay money. I don't want to, but my want on this issue is a moot point. I have to pay, want or no want. Our taxes must be raised. Period, end of discussion.

We have a problem. We have a tool box to solve it, but the idiots we have in office took the two most powerful tools in it (major cuts to things we don't presently need, and raising taxes) and summarily dismissed them. Then they decided to (both sides) make a show about cutting or stopping cuts to tiny, unimportant budgetary, and practically useful things. Much like the DHS, it is more about putting on a show, fooling the public into thinking motion is accomplishment.
 
There have been several postings, with conflicting information, about who owns Amtrak. This is the answer as set forth in notes 5 and 10 to Amtrak's audited 2009 financial statements (which can be found on Amtrak's website): The preferred stock of Amtrak is owned by the United States Secretary of Transportation for the benefit of the United States Government. The common stock, which is essentially worthless, is owned by four shareholders, successors to railroads that transferred their passenger rail operations to Amtrak. The largest common shareholder, owning 55% of the common stock, is American Premier Underwriters, formerly known as Penn Central.
 
Run away spending is not a problem. It is... a symptom.
Symptoms are oftentimes the actual problem. You don't go to the doctor to cure strep, you go to the doctor to cure throat pain. Same principle applies. Runaway spending is dangerous, and is a serious problem.

We are currently spending six tons of money on non-essential military items, such as acquisition of defense equipment clearly designed to protect us from the Soviet Union.
Clearly, we need not defend ourselves from a military power that ceased to exist 20 years ago. The only other enemy that the kind of large scale weapons we are acquiring would be useful against is China, who seems quite content taking us over economically, and seems disinterested in using such crude methods of dominance. The weapons we are trying to acquire are not needed, as such military battles are a thing of the past.
Please, enlighten us all as to what current defense programs are designed against a 20-30 year old threat that has since gone by the wayside.

Let's let the DoD figure out what's essential and non-essential, and how best to protect our country and its interests. Some things are best kept internal. Nothing against you, but I'm pretty sure they know how to do their job quite well, and know more about what they're doing and why than you, or any of us, ever will.
 
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Let's let the DoD figure out what's essential and non-essential, and how best to protect our country and its interests. Nothing against you, but I'm pretty sure they know how to do their job quite well, and know more about what they're doing and why than you, or any of us ever will.
As a former Naval Officer and current defense contractor, GML hit the nail on the head. The amount of money that I, personally, have seen the DoD is absolutely mind boggling. I spent 3 years working on the now cancelled CG(X) program and the amount of money that was spent for absolutely no return whatsoever is positively obscene.
I recommend that you start thinking for yourself rather than put your blind faith in authority to have your best interests at mind. Our current levels of spending would be sustainable forever with some very minor tweaks to the tax code.

But instead we have a tax system where Warren Buffet pays a smaller income tax than his secretary and multibillion dollar corporations like GE pay no tax whatsoever.

Bonus edit:

You don't go to the doctor to cure strep, you go to the doctor to cure throat pain.
You can't even get your medical analogies right. You absolutely go to the doctor to cure strep. Antibiotics do nothing to alleviate your pain, but kill off the strep allowing your body to feel better. My son and I even had strep this winter with little to no throat pain at all.

fail-at-failing.jpg
 
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Aloha

This topic is straying from Amtrak issues, please remember this is the Amtrak section.

Mahalo
 
As a former Naval Officer and current defense contractor, GML hit the nail on the head. The amount of money that I, personally, have seen the DoD is absolutely mind boggling. I spent 3 years working on the now cancelled CG(X) program and the amount of money that was spent for absolutely no return whatsoever is positively obscene.
It is unfortunate that defense programs often times live and die by shifts due to modernization and changes in threats, which, in addition to funding concerns, was what brought down the Next Gen Cruiser program. Changes in threats are hard to predict, especially years down the road. As a former DOE employee, I am more than familiar with changes in mission resulting from changes in threat. Savannah River Site, DOE's nuclear processing facility in SC, built its K Cooling Tower to support new K reactor operations, which was slated to come back online in order to produce tritium for defense purposes. When the Cold War ended, there was no longer a need for nuclear material production, and subsequently there was no longer a need for the reactor restart project to continue. The cooling tower and reactor operated for a very short amount of time, after which the reactor was permanently shut down. K cooling tower was demolished last summer in glorious fashion, having stood lifeless for almost 2 decades. Some see it as a waste of taxpayer dollars because of its cost and the fact that it was never used. The media was also glad to point this out, too. But, coming from the inside, I know there was a very real reason for its construction, and that there was no way to foresee the events in the Soviet Union 3-5 years in the future.

You can't even get your medical analogies right. You absolutely go to the doctor to cure strep. Antibiotics do nothing to alleviate your pain, but kill off the strep allowing your body to feel better. My son and I even had strep this winter with little to no throat pain at all.
If you really want to turn this Amtrak thread into a medical debate, we can. Unless you have a medical degree too, you yourself have no way of knowing what your sore throat is caused by without performing a throat culture. It very well could be strep, or it could be something else, like an adenovirus infection, or viral pharyngitis, which you'll be happy/sad to hear is the most common cause of a sore throat. :cool:

PS: nice forum spam. Seriously?
 
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When I go to the doctor I tell him what symptoms I have and he makes a diagnosis. He doesn't treat the symptoms unless I ask him to, and only then will he do so in conjunction with a cure. When I had a bad ear ache he gave me a script for an antibiotic to cure the ear infection and told me to buy ear drops to soothe the pain if I wanted to.

Point is, your analogy is totally wrong. You can admit that it is without sacrificing your position on your other contentions. In any event you responded to being called out but defending an obvious error... That doesn't help your argument.

As for Amtrak, I thought this was settled. Amtrak ran during the back-to-back shutdowns in 95-96 under Clinton, many people actually forget the shutdown happened TWICE within a few months. The world didn't end, it cost the government money and failed to solve our problems. I don't see why it's worth debating it for Amtraks sake or anybody else's for that matter, uless it shuts down for an extended period of time it is doubtful it will do anything but stall our economic growth, which is very fragile.

The trains still run, the only way they would stop running is if the shutdown lasted many many months, when Amtrak gets up for FY2012 funding.

Remember Amtrak employees are NOT federal employees. Their pay comes partially from government subsidy, yes, but the majority comes from the farebox. Tha means if people are still riding trains, the money will continue. Additionally Amtrak as a corporation is free to seek private loans to subsidize it further in case Uncle Sam shows them an empty wallet.

IF and only IF the shutdown lasted long enough to affect Amtrak... Amtrak would be the least of our worries at that point.
 
Wow folks. :giggle: All I was saying is that one initially goes to the doctor to address symptoms, because most times one doesn't know the underlying reason behind a symptom. A cure naturally follows a diagnosis. In the age of WebMD and such, people like to think they can self-diagnose and go to the doctor and tell him or her, "I have ____. Please cure____.", only to be diagnosed with something completely different. Ryan, this was not meant to start an argument on medicine and doctor visit procedures. The reference to viral pharyngitis was a real one. Last year, I went to the doctor with what I thought was strep throat because it has been the culprit of throat pain in the past. Did I say, "Doc, I have strep throat. Write me a prescription and I'll be outta here."? No way. It's his job to figure out what the problem is. In this case, it turned out to be viral pharyngitis, not strep. Yes, in the long run my doctor's visit was to acquire a cure, a cure that would take care of my symptoms, but my original appointment was made because I had throat pain. Calling a doctor's office and making an appointment with the reason being "I have strep" is quite a presumption, don't you think? I suppose my original post at 11:07 needed to be slightly rephrased, and my post at 11:14 as well. "What we have here is a failure to communicate"! :) Let's leave this behind.

IF and only IF the shutdown lasted long enough to affect Amtrak... Amtrak would be the least of our worries at that point.
Ain't that the truth!
 
It is unfortunate that defense programs often times live and die by shifts due to modernization and changes in threats, which, in addition to funding concerns, was what brought down the Next Gen Cruiser program.
Changes in the threat had nothing to do with the cancellation of CG(X) - since then I moved onto a company that does threat modeling and if anything the threat has evolved such that CG(X) is even more necessary than it was 4 years ago. Point is, you can't just blindly trust that the DoD has it's priorities straight and is a fathlful steward of the taxpayers dollars because I'm here to tell you that you can't and they aren't.
Calling a doctor's office and making an appointment with the reason being "I have strep" is quite a presumption, don't you think?
It's funny you say that, that's almost exactly what I said when I called and when I spoke to the doctor. I didn't have a sore throat, but neither did my son when he had strep the week prior. The doctor agreed that it didn't look like strep at all, but did a throat culture to be safe since I had been exposed. Sure enough the test came back and said that I had strep and I was able to avoid passing it on to other people.
If you really want to turn this Amtrak thread into a medical debate, we can.
Your call. If you don't want the discussion turned to medical things or wasteful DoD spending, stop making incorrect statements about them. If you want to keep the discussion confined to Amtrak,confine your own comments to Amtrak related matters.
PS: nice forum spam. Seriously?
You should also learn what spam is. Nothing in my post comes anywhere close to meeting that definition.
 
...The trains still run, the only way they would stop running is if the shutdown lasted many many months, when Amtrak gets up for FY2012 funding.

Remember Amtrak employees are NOT federal employees. Their pay comes partially from government subsidy, yes, but the majority comes from the farebox. Tha means if people are still riding trains, the money will continue. Additionally Amtrak as a corporation is free to seek private loans to subsidize it further in case Uncle Sam shows them an empty wallet.

IF and only IF the shutdown lasted long enough to affect Amtrak... Amtrak would be the least of our worries at that point.
The problem is that Amtrak does not get fiscal year subsidies in a lump sum on the first day of the fiscal year. The subsidy payments are made periodically throughout the year. In the event of a government shutdown, those periodic payments will stop. Since Amtrak does not bring in enough revenue to meet even operating expenses, much less all expenses, they will then begin to eat through cash until there is literally too little cash to operate. That would happen in a matter of weeks.

The biggest impact of an Amtrak shutdown would not be the stoppage of Amtrak service, but the shutdown of the NEC which would affect the commuter rail lines from Boston to Virginia. Amtrak moves about 75,000 passengers a day. The commuter lines move hundreds of thousands. The rails are owned, maintained, and dispatched by Amtrak. If Amtrak shuts down, the commuter lines shut down as well. People can get by without Acela, but having no NJT service into Penn Station is another matter.

However, as you correctly said, the major impacts of a government shutdown will not be with Amtrak. Amtrak will indeed be the least of the worries, and because of that, the shutdown should not last long enough to get Amtrak involved.
 
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