Greyhound

[IceColdMintJulep]

I just read an MSNBC article about Greyhound cutting service to 150 cities. Among those are Dallas Amtrak and Houston Amtrak. I know that Amtrak routes you through Houston on Greyhound if you are going from the SL to say Dallas or FTW or in my case OKC. here is the link:MSNBC

 

[AmtrakWPK]

Do those cities have municipal transit system services to the Amtrak stations that also connect with the main Greyhound depot in those cities?

 

[IceColdMintJulep]

Scratch that, I just read another article. 150 jobs are lost and 260 stops mostly in the west. I don't know if there is convenient public transit for those cities or not. I know alot of people in small towns will be hung out to dry. I would imagine that the Builder and other western trains will be relied on even more. Good for Amtrak I guess.

 

[jccollins]

Do those cities have municipal transit system services to the Amtrak stations that also connect with the main Greyhound depot in those cities?

It doesn't matter. The entire routes are being cut, not just the link from the main Greyhound terminal to the train stations in the affected cities.

I am curious to know what route(s) will be cut in Nevada. Our Greyhound network is already bare bones (almost as bad as Amtrak) and was severely affected by the last round of cuts.

 

[IceColdMintJulep]

Several cities related to Amtrak. Fernley, Lovelock, Valmy, Carlin and Wells are the only ones I've seen in Nevada. Chemult OR (Starlight). A truckload in WA. Portage and a couple other stops in MN (Builder). Big Timber, Deer Lodge, Dillon, Drummond, Forsyth, Glendive, Laurel, Lima, Miles City, St. Regis, Three Forks, Warm Springs, Whitehall and Wibaux in MT. I think this might benefit Amtrak overall, but it still is bad for transportation overall.

 

[IceColdMintJulep]

Here is the complete list of cuts starting Aug 18. There are other cuts happening sooner I guess. There are some real shockers on here. I think they are going to regret it.

California: Dunsmuir, Mount Shasta

Colorado: Berthoud Pass, Brush, Burlington, Craig, Dinosaur, Fraser, Fort Morgan, Granby, Hayden, Kremmling, Steamboat Springs, Sterling, Winter Park.

Idaho: Blackfoot, Bliss, DuBois, Idaho Falls, Kellogg, McGammon, Mullan, Pocatello, Rexburg, Rupert, Wallace.

Illinois: Elizabeth, Freeport, Galena, Pecatonica, Rock Falls, Stockton, Woodbine.

Iowa: Ames, Anita, Cedar Rapids, DuBuque, Dyersville, Marshalltown, Newton, Onawa, Shenandoah, Sioux Center, Sioux City, Tama Toledo, Waterloo.

Kansas: Abilene, Ellsworth Junction, Goodland, Oakley, Quinter Junction, Russell, Wakeeney, Wamego.

Minnesota: Anoka, Atwater, Bagley, Bemidji, Big Lake, Bloomington, Brainerd, Canyon, Cass Lake, Clara City, Cloquet, Cottonwood, Crockston, Dassel, Detroit Lakes, Erskine, Eveleth, Forest Lake, Fosston, Four Corners, Frazee, Granite Falls, Hackensack, Hamel, Hinckley, Hutchinson, Independence, Le Seuer, Litchfield, Little Falls, Luverne, Madelia, Mankato, Marshall, Melrose, Minneapolis-St. Paul Airport, Moose Lake, Mountain Lake, Nisswa, North Branch, Perham, Pine City, Pine River, Pipestone, Rochester, Ruthton, Sandstone, Sauk Center, Shakopee, St. James, St. Louis Park, St. Peter, Twig, Wadena, Walker, Willmar, Windom, Winona, Worthington.

Missouri: Concordia, Maryville, Odessa, Sweet Springs.

Montana: Big Timber, Deer Lodge, Dillon, Drummond, Forsythe, Glendive, Laurel, Lima, Miles City, Three Forks, Warm Springs, Whitehall, Wibaux.

Nebraska: Cozad, Grand Island, Kearney, Kimball, Lexington, North Platte, Ogallala, Sidney, York.

Nevada: Carlin, Fernley, Lovelock, Valmy, Wells.

North Dakota: Beach, Bismark, Dickenson, Grand Forks, Hillsboro, Jamestown, Medora, Richardton, Steele, Sterling, Valley City.

Oregon: Albany, Arlington, Ashland, Bandon, Bend, Biggs, Boardman, Brightwood, Brookings, Canyonville, Chemult, Coos Bay, Cottage Grove, Florence, Gold Beach, Government Camp, Hermiston, Klamath Falls, La Pine, Lincoln City, Madras, McMinnville, Newberg, Newport, North bend, Port Orford, Redmond, Reedsport, Rhododendron, Sandy, Sheridan, Troutdale, Waldport, Warm Springs, Wemme, Zigzag.

Utah: Duchesne, Echo, Heber City, Loganb, Myton, Park City, Roosevelt, Vernal.

Washington: Blaine, Camas, Castle Rock, Cle Ellum, Connell, Fort Lewis, George, Goldendale, Lyle, North Bend, North Bonneville, Prosser, Richland, Ritzville, Skamania, Snowqualmie Pass, Toppenish, Wapato, Washougal.

Wisconsin: Abbotsford, Aniwa, Baldwin, Beaver Dam, Birnamwood, Black Earth, Black River Falls, Bonduel, Columbus, Coon Valley, Cross Plains, Delafield, Elcho, Freemont, Germantown, Hudson, Janesville, La Cross Lake Tomahawk, Lone Rock, Mauston, Mazomanie, Menomonie, Minocqua, Monico, Osseo, Pelican Lake, Portage, Readstown, Rhinelander, Richland Center, Shawano, Spring Green, Stanley, Stevens Point, Summit Lake, Sun Prairie, Viroqua, Waupaca, Waupun, Wausau, Westby, Wittenberg.

Wyoming: Cheyenne, Green River.

 

[lepearso]

Sorry guys, but I simply loathe Greyhound! For all of Amtrak's faults and deficiencies, Amtrak is first class all the way compared to Greyhound!

But, don't get me wrong. My heart bleeds for the small towns across the west that will lose their only connection to other cities. Elderly people and people who don't own cars are going to feel trapped. However, this cloud could very well have a silver lining. Some states in the west - I forget which ones - are already talking about sponsoring locally owned bus companies to pick up where Greyhound is leaving off. I hope that they'll proceed with those ideas, and perhaps develope bus services that connect these small towns with airports and Amtrak stations in other cities.

This is round 2 of Greyhound's cutbacks in the west. Rumor has it that Rounds 3 and 4 will be principally in the east. This could terminate a whole group of Thruway connections operated by Greyhound. For me , this could be a blessing. Maybe these cuts will prompt Amtrak to find another partner - one that delivers halfway decent service!

 

[AmtrakWPK]

Seems like this ought to be brought up, big time, to our elected reps, as it makes the survival of Amtrak all the more imperative. The "let 'em take a bus if Amtrak is killed" argument just lost a lot more of it's viability. Also helps reinforce the point that the transportation infrastructure can't make it without gov't assistance.

 

[Stephanie Armstrong]

I have been reading the posts about the Bus. I live in the Kansas City area and kept HOPING we would get Greyhound! If you want to connect to California Zepher (sp) (Via Omaha), one has to go on a "Old" Econoline Van! It's a three hour trip - and you talk about "scary". This was several years ago that I did this. But the driver I had went way too fast - 80 mph, and I mean we were "packed to the gills" with seven adults (not counting the driver - and everybody's luggage. We kept "swaying" really bad.

Not Fun. I was so glad to see Omaha! Maybe things have changed??

:unsure:

Thank you for this forum!

The Train Lady

 

[City of Miami]

Wow! So there'll be no way to get to Coos Bay OR except by car. I used to live in Coos Bay. I doubt if that little prop plane would still come from Eugene. It looks like they chopped off the Route 101 bus at the California border. I used to frequently take that bus down to San Francisco. CB was already one of the most isolated communities imaginable - no minorities of any kind. This was 20 yrs ago I might add.

 

[NativeSon5859]

Greyhound is cutting 8 cities in Louisiana as of April. One of those cities is New Iberia, a current stop for the Sunset Limited. Another is Houma, which is pretty close to the Schriever stop for the Sunset.

 

[Bill Haithcoat]

On the whole I am sorry to hear this EXCEPT as it may, or should, help Amtrak, in the areas affected.

I actually enjoy travel by all modes to some extent, yes, even the bus. The longest bus ride I have taken is about 8 hours--- that is about my limit. But for 2 or 3 hour trips it is not bad, as long as you are not taking away from a train on the same route.

So I feel really sorry for the many people who will be cut off from everything.

But I hope Amtrak is able to pick up some of the slack for it's sake as well as for the sake of the abandoned people.

 

[jccollins]

I agree with you, Bill. The point is that it is nice to have some kind of other transportation choice besides driving or flying, and Greyhound should be structured to complement Amtrak service for shorter trips where the trains don't go, basically an expanded version of the Amtrak Thruway system. It doesn't make sense that the government will help fund airports in small towns that cannot survive on their own (under some kind of essential rural air service bill) but will not step in to help Greyhound (and Amtrak) keep their routes.

 

[Allen Dee]

Some time back, it was pointed out that Amtrak Thruway bus service within the state of California was prohibited by law from transporting local passengers, who did not include a train as part of their trip.

Now that Greyhound has announced that they will no longer stop in Lompoc , the only other bus service that serves that city is Amtrak.

No one can tell me that Amtrak is now prohibited from selling a ticket from Santa Barbara to Lompoc.

 

[jccollins]

Some time back, it was pointed out that Amtrak Thruway bus service within the state of California was prohibited by law from transporting local passengers, who did not include a train as part of their trip.

Amtrak's website does not restrict you from buying a bus only ticket for travel within the State of California. I have done it quite a few time and received the ticket in the mail or picked it up at a Quik-Trak ticketing machine. I know it is technically a law that it can't be sold, but the only time Amtrak really enforces it is when you try to buy an Amtrak bus-only ticket at a staffed station ticket window. Even then you can purchase the ticket for the bus plus the very first stop on the connecting train and then just not use the train portion of the trip.

 

[lepearso]

They need to rethink that law in California. I rode on a Thruway Bus once where I was the ONLY passenger for more than half of the route! It was a great opportunity to chat with the bus driver - who happened to be born in Tennessee - but it made me wonder just how much it was costing Amtrak and California to move me across the State all by myself! They need to accept local, bus-only passengers on some of the routes as a way to earn extra revenue and offset expenses.

Now, back to the issue of Greyhound service cuts: late last year during round 1, Amtrak sent an excellent press release pointing out that most of the communities losing Greyhound were within a short drive from Amtrak services. I hope that is still the case with round 2 and that Amtrak will issue another press release.

 

[jccollins]

There are a number of reasons why they can't legally accept local bus only travelers. First off, since the state funds Amtrak California intercity trains and connecting thruway motorcoaches, other intercity bus companies such as Greyhound, VIA, etc would be at an unfair disadvantage with Amtrak's thruway network that often provides service on the same routes for far less cost since they know passengers are connecting to the trains. Amtrak California is not in the business of providing bus service - their mission is to provide intercity train service. In addition the Amtrak thruways can often run an hour or more late when their connecting train(s) are late since they are guaranteed connections that are designed for the trains. We also need to consider capacity issues. Amtrak does not need groups of passengers whining about a two hour late thruway departure at the station when no one would be directly inconvenienced if they were all onboard the train. Many of the thruways do run with heavy loads on a regular basis and allowing local passengers onboard might require extra thruways to carry more passengers than the trains regularly carry, defeating Amtrak California's purpose. Finally, while some of the thruways do run with very few passengers all of them do cover their route's full operating costs over the course of the fiscal year. This means that Amtrak California is not losing money or spending any money to operate the thruway motorcoach network feeding their trains. All state dollars are going to subsidize the trains, not buses.

 

[Allen Dee]

My only argument here is that there is a restriction against Amtrak to provide local bus service between Santa Barbara and Lompoc. After the first of April, Greyhound will no longer service this route. After that time, there will be no common carrier serving the two city pairs. It would be to Amtrak California's benefit to change this from a dedicated service to a mixed-mode service, similar to the service operated by Orange Belt Stages between Visalia and Santa Maria.