Hassled by the MAN- more Reno follies

[pebbleworm]

I got to deal with Reno's finest today on the California Zephyr, and be being relatively civil (even though I would not let them search my bags. The poor cop looked so disappointed) I was able to get some information on these searches. They are baseless fishing trips of the worst, most groundless kind. In a nutshell, they have no legal grounds to even talk to you but will try to bully you into agreeing to an illegal search. Amtrak provides the Reno PD with passenger manifests and ticket purchase information for each train running through, and based on this the Reno 911 folks decide who looks "suspicious". If you have ever worked with cops, you know that their idea of suspicious is just about everything. Red flags the po-po told me about were:

Buying a ticket "too close" to your departure date.

Buying a ticket in person.

Buying a ticket with cash.

Buying a "one way" ticket (aren't they all?).

Buying a ticket with Amtrak Guest Rewards points (There's a lot of fraud, he said).

Because you have not run through the TSA circus, YOU are a potential threat. I let them look at my ticket, talked about my trip and let them run the cocaine sniffing dog past the luggage. Next time I won't be so accommodating. They have no grounds to detain you, and you have no reason to even talk to them. As a I said, a fishing trip of the worst kind.

An Amtrak cop showed up after they left and wanted to know if the Reno folks had been civil, and then came back a little later to get my contact information. What nefarious purpose that will be used for I do not know. Next trip my conversation with the Reno cops will be limited to "Am I free to go?" and "am I under arrest?". What they are doing is NOT police work, just trolling through and bullying a captive audience in the wan pathetic hope something turns up. It is my duty and obligation as an American Citizen to keep cops on the straight, narrow and legal path. Reno should be ashamed of itself, but what self respect can a city that runs on prostitution and rigged gambling really have?

 

[BCL]

I'd just point out that there's no legal prostitution in Washoe County. One would have to go well out to a county with a population under certain limits.

 

[chakk]

Add the ACLU app "Your Rights" to your iPhone and you will always have at your disposal the legal and appropriate responses to any form of questioning.

 

[tricia]

Thanks, pebbleworm, for being civil, firm, and standing your ground on your constitutional right against unreasonable search. May I suggest also writing to Amtrak, to let them know they've got passengers who find this sort of fishing expedition offensive? I agree that resisting such fishing trips is a patriotic duty--even though it's much easier at the time to just go along with it. Much easier for Amtrak to just go along with it, too, especially in the absence of passenger requests for conductors to at least ask for reasons why police should board the train.

 

[Ispolkom]

Good for you! It sounds as if you handled it just right.

 

[NorthCoastHiawatha]

Buying a ticket with Amtrak Guest Rewards points (There's a lot of fraud, he said).

Seriously what?

 

[pebbleworm]

Yes indeed. Cashing in points make you a possible criminal. This was" confirmed" by the Amtrak cop. Remember, you may be asked a question but you are not required to answer.

 

[Solar Bozo]

Last summer I had a similar experience. I was riding on my points, a 62 year old male Humboldt County, CA resident with a pony tail and beard. I was profiled, certainly.

At first I refused to submit to a search, but the Reno officer told me that he would detain me until he could get a search warrant.

They even brought the dog who alerted on my suitcase, but I am certain the dog was trained to alert on command, not just when detecting drugs. Last fall I read a news piece about Vegas cops who trained their dogs to alert on command so they would have probable cause.

Anyway, I could not afford to miss my Sacramento connection, and I had nothing to hide, so I finally capitulated to a search.

He continually called me a drug smuggler and a money launderer. Basically, he beat me up verbally. I was literally in tears by the time he left me alone.

They were holding up the train to search my roomette and luggage, but finally released the train and the guy kept messing with me and going through my stuff nearly all the way to Colfax.

After he got off, Amtrak cops and TSA came by and apologized to me on behalf of good cops for what the Reno **** put me through.

Since then, I have heard that the Amtrak cops, if on the train, will stay with the Reno officers to make sure there is nothing illegal done to innocent passengers like myself.

I came through Reno again last week on the Zephyr, and as the train came into the station, I had video and audio recording devices rolling in my roomette. But no cops stepped onto the train that time.

 

[The Journalist]

According to a police officer who I spoke to recently regarding things like this, in Nevada you can be held for up to an hour without being charged or arrested before they have to let you go, arrest you, or get a warrant. So if you're on the train already and they want to question you, this essentially means you either can get off the train and wait for that hour and almost certainly have it leave you behind, or let them question you.

And unfortunately, people are caught smuggling drugs into Reno on Amtrak and Greyhound constantly, so it's not like it's being done just to harass people. Then again there's all the talk about decriminalizing certain substances anyway so who knows....

 

[NAVYBLUE]

According to a police officer who I spoke to recently regarding things like this, in Nevada you can be held for up to an hour without being charged or arrested before they have to let you go, arrest you, or get a warrant. So if you're on the train already and they want to question you, this essentially means you either can get off the train and wait for that hour and almost certainly have it leave you behind, or let them question you.
And unfortunately, people are caught smuggling drugs into Reno on Amtrak and Greyhound constantly, so it's not like it's being done just to harass people. Then again there's all the talk about decriminalizing certain substances anyway so who knows....

The LEO is partially right for the wrong reasons. I mean why would you expect him to know the law. He's only a LAW enforcement officer. Here is the Nevada statute and NV is one of only (5) states that have a law on the books that you must identify yourself by name to a peace officer. Here is the statute.

NRS 171.123  Temporary detention by peace officer of person suspected of criminal behavior or of violating conditions of parole or probation: Limitations.

1.  Any peace officer may detain any person whom the officer encounters under circumstances which reasonably indicate that the person has committed, is committing or is about to commit a crime.

2.  Any peace officer may detain any person the officer encounters under circumstances which reasonably indicate that the person has violated or is violating the conditions of the person’s parole or probation.

3.  The officer may detain the person pursuant to this section only to ascertain the person’s identity and the suspicious circumstances surrounding the person’s presence abroad. Any person so detained shall identify himself or herself, but may not be compelled to answer any other inquiry of any peace officer.

4.  A person must not be detained longer than is reasonably necessary to effect the purposes of this section, and in no event longer than 60 minutes. The detention must not extend beyond the place or the immediate vicinity of the place where the detention was first effected, unless the person is arrested.

(Added to NRS by 1969, 535; A 1973, 597; 1975, 1200; 1987, 1172; 1995, 2068)

This means they ask you your FULL name. Then they run you through the Nevada Public Safety computer that links to the FBI's National Instant Criminal Background Check System that takes about 2-3 minutes. AND they better be damn sure you have committed or are about to commit a crime. They need a reasonable articulated suspicion that you did somethinhg illegal. And no, that can't keep you for (1) hour just for the hell of it.

We in the pointy end of Nevada(Las Vegas/Clark County) are constantly giving the Clark county LEOs the "Am I under arrest" and/or "Am I free to go" routine until they tire of their fishing trip. Especially law adiding citizens who open carry a firearm which is legal everywhere in Nevada. Nevada was a test case (Hibel vs State of Nevada) for LEOs asking for your name and USSC said it was NOT unconstitutional for a LEO to ask you your name. After you have given them your name, they can NOT hold you for (60) minutes unless they answer YES, you are under arrest.

People are intimidated by LEO's because they THINK LEOs know the law. If they were that smart they'd be attorneys.

NAVYBLUE

 

[Bob Dylan]

Another Episode of Reno 911! :angry: Maybe a Movie Studio can remake "The Keystone Cops" using these Buffoons!

Sounds like the Amtrak Police and TSA Crew in Reno have their stuff together! Good thing there isn't any Real Crime going on in Reno (no wonder it's a Dying Town, as Yogi Berra said: "..it's so popular no-one goes there anymore..") so these Clowns can waste time hassling Amtrak Passengers! :help:

 

[The Journalist]

I should clarify my above statement....the second sentence is my own interpretation of what the officer said, NOT what he said specifically; he wasn't talking about trains and I didn't ask regarding them specifically.

According to a police officer who I spoke to recently regarding things like this, in Nevada you can be held for up to an hour without being charged or arrested before they have to let you go, arrest you, or get a warrant. So if you're on the train already and they want to question you, this essentially means you either can get off the train and wait for that hour and almost certainly have it leave you behind, or let them question you.
And unfortunately, people are caught smuggling drugs into Reno on Amtrak and Greyhound constantly, so it's not like it's being done just to harass people. Then again there's all the talk about decriminalizing certain substances anyway so who knows....

The LEO is partially right for the wrong reasons. I mean why would you expect him to know the law. He's only a LAW enforcement officer. Here is the Nevada statute and NV is one of only (5) states that have a law on the books that you must identify yourself by name to a peace officer. Here is the statute.

NRS 171.123  Temporary detention by peace officer of person suspected of criminal behavior or of violating conditions of parole or probation: Limitations.

1.  Any peace officer may detain any person whom the officer encounters under circumstances which reasonably indicate that the person has committed, is committing or is about to commit a crime.

2.  Any peace officer may detain any person the officer encounters under circumstances which reasonably indicate that the person has violated or is violating the conditions of the person’s parole or probation.

3.  The officer may detain the person pursuant to this section only to ascertain the person’s identity and the suspicious circumstances surrounding the person’s presence abroad. Any person so detained shall identify himself or herself, but may not be compelled to answer any other inquiry of any peace officer.

4.  A person must not be detained longer than is reasonably necessary to effect the purposes of this section, and in no event longer than 60 minutes. The detention must not extend beyond the place or the immediate vicinity of the place where the detention was first effected, unless the person is arrested.

(Added to NRS by 1969, 535; A 1973, 597; 1975, 1200; 1987, 1172; 1995, 2068)

This means they ask you your FULL name. Then they run you through the Nevada Public Safety computer that links to the FBI's National Instant Criminal Background Check System that takes about 2-3 minutes. AND they better be damn sure you have committed or are about to commit a crime. They need a reasonable articulated suspicion that you did somethinhg illegal. And no, that can't keep you for (1) hour just for the hell of it.

We in the pointy end of Nevada(Las Vegas/Clark County) are constantly giving the Clark county LEOs the "Am I under arrest" and/or "Am I free to go" routine until they tire of their fishing trip. Especially law adiding citizens who open carry a firearm which is legal everywhere in Nevada. Nevada was a test case (Hibel vs State of Nevada) for LEOs asking for your name and USSC said it was NOT unconstitutional for a LEO to ask you your name. After you have given them your name, they can NOT hold you for (60) minutes unless they answer YES, you are under arrest.

Thanks for looking that up; that's the statute I meant. Yes, it was if you're reasonably suspected of committing a crime or being about to; I neglected to mention that in my first post, which is fairly important. Though I was under the impression this was allowing "detention" WITHOUT being arrested, which is apparently incorrect. The difference between the two is hazy to me, to be honest.

I haven't been to Las Vegas for a while; is carrying a firearm in the casinos down there allowed? Here it's explicitly disallowed even with a CCW and all the doors to the casinos say something to that effect. Even a building that used to be a casino but isn't anymore still has that sign on it.

 

[George Harris]

My one excusion into Nevada was into Reno, and so far as I am concern it was two trips in one, my first and my last, but not because of any attention from law enforcement. It was the financial surprise on check out. When I dropped the key off at the check in counter, and a key drop was all I expected, I was asked "do you want to put your charge on the card you checked in with?" My answer was what charge, as I had made sure that there was nothing other than the room itself on the bill. Seems that there is some form of city, county, state, or whatever fee in Nevada (maybe just in Reno) that they do not tell youabout until you are there. Eight dollars and something. It was not the amount that got me so much as the sneaky, sleazy, underhanded way it was handled.

 

[amamba]

George, most cities charge an extra tourist tax. I have had tax equal to more than $50/night on a hotel room in NYC. It is a percentage of the room rate. In some locales they can add a state and a city tax to the room, sometimes there are even fees for convention centers.

 

[George Harris]

George, most cities charge an extra tourist tax. I have had tax equal to more than $50/night on a hotel room in NYC. It is a percentage of the room rate. In some locales they can add a state and a city tax to the room, sometimes there are even fees for convention centers.

It wasn't that they had one, but the underhanded way in which it was handled. I am used to these sorts of taxes, but also that they are plugged in with the normal bill, not snuck in later.

 

[cirdan]

Seems that there is some form of city, county, state, or whatever fee in Nevada (maybe just in Reno) that they do not tell youabout until you are there. Eight dollars and something. It was not the amount that got me so much as the sneaky, sleazy, underhanded way it was handled.

Don't most resorts have some sort of a resort tax?

I'd be very surprised not to be charged one in any place of touristic nature.

Of course it is wrong of the booking system not to have informed you.

 

[leemell]

Whenever I book now I always get a statement affirming that this room rate includes all taxes and fees. Most will do that and those that won't get cancelled. I take those statements with me if I get any hassle about it. I do not like billing surprises either. Unlisted resort fees are beginning to disappear do to the publicity and bad relations with some customers.

 

[Just-Thinking-51]

An Amtrak cop showed up after they left and wanted to know if the Reno folks had been civil, and then came back a little later to get my contact information. What nefarious purpose that will be used for I do not know.

Not with the Amtrak Police, however it sounds like there building a case of civil rights abuse. Much easy to stop a outside agency from messing with the Amtrak traveling customers, when you have paperwork to back you up.