I was thinking that but I was also thinking there would not have enough length.
Historical Amtrak equipment and travel experiences
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fdaley
OBS Chief
I think the 10-6 was basically the only heritage sleeper configuration that survived into the late '80s and early '90s on Amtrak, other than the slumbercoaches, which were considered a different class of service. The 10-6 was probably the most common configuration among the private railroads that preceded Amtrak, but there were a lot of other arrangements, and Amtrak probably inherited some variety of sleeper configurations for operations in its early years. I know they had some bedroom-lounge sleepers (with six double bedrooms at one end and a lounge in the remaining space) still roaming around in the '70s, and there were dome and observation cars with sleeper rooms before the Superliners arrived in the late '70s.
There may have been some 11 Bedroom sleepers also converted to HEP...not sure about that though. Or some baggage dorms...again, not sure...
Probably not...
Layout was somewhat like today's Viewliners with 5 pairs of roomettes across from each other and 6 bedrooms with an aisle at the side. I rode in a 10/6 roomette on the Broadway Limited from Chicago to Paoli PA in 1985 and I recall that was the layout.
When I ate in the dining car in 1990, it was microwaved fish served on styrofoam plates. But there was full waiter service.But you could eat in the Diner and enjoy great food and service!
I used to regularly ride in Slumbercoaches on the Crescent between Washington and Greenville,SC where my dad lived.
In the late 90’s Amtrak took out the bedrooms from a few 10-6’s with the idea that that space would be a lounge area (may have been for smokers) with the roomettes for crew dorm. As I recall the employees were against that and that space remained empty. I remember looking in that car on a Silver Palm trip and thinking what a waste to not use it for something.
My last trip in a heritage sleeper was a bedroom on the Three Rivers to Chicago in 1999 heading to the NMRA convention in St. Paul.
My last trip in a heritage sleeper was a bedroom on the Three Rivers to Chicago in 1999 heading to the NMRA convention in St. Paul.
jis
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I just found a full roster of Southern Railway passenger cars:
https://hawkinsrails.net/mainlines/sou/sou_stock_pass.htm
Cars that were acquired new in 1949 or later were most likely used in trains like the Southern Crescent, and many were transferred to Amtrak.
What was exactly transferred to Amtrak and what came of them can be found in great detail in
Amtrak By the Numbers by David Warner and Elbert Simon
Be aware that the book is now out of print and used copies are in extremely high demand and hence insanely expensive. I acquired a pre-release copy
However all hope is not lost.
Amtrak by the Numbers 2
covering upto 2022 is available. Still pricey, but less so than used copies of the original,
Many of you may have seen the On Track On Line Amtrak Roster which was put together by David Warner too,
https://hawkinsrails.net/mainlines/sou/sou_stock_pass.htm
Cars that were acquired new in 1949 or later were most likely used in trains like the Southern Crescent, and many were transferred to Amtrak.
What was exactly transferred to Amtrak and what came of them can be found in great detail in
Amtrak By the Numbers by David Warner and Elbert Simon
Be aware that the book is now out of print and used copies are in extremely high demand and hence insanely expensive. I acquired a pre-release copy
However all hope is not lost.
Amtrak by the Numbers 2
covering upto 2022 is available. Still pricey, but less so than used copies of the original,
Many of you may have seen the On Track On Line Amtrak Roster which was put together by David Warner too,
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fdaley
OBS Chief
I had forgotten till I read your post that there were a few heritage sleepers that were converted to retention toilets and put back into service in the late '90s. I never rode in any of those, but I recall now that they did run on the Three Rivers for a time. When I rode that train in 2002, it had a Viewliner sleeper but no diner.
dadonatrain
Service Attendant
I have no idea at all if this will be a source of the info you seek but I’ll pass it on. The Central Railway Museum in Central, SC, at crmha.org may have some info. The small town of Central, SC, on the line btwn Charlotte and Atlanta used by the Crescent makes a big deal about its Southern Railway heritage.
Very close to Clemson. If only I was the type of donor to Appalachian State football that would allow me tickets to the away game at Clemson next September. Not that long of a drive and I have family heading that way. It will make a nice weekend trip this summer. Thanks for the info.
I quit riding before they started down grading the Diner!
Of course, Southern was known for its great Food and Service in the Diner!After Amtrak took over, it wasn't the same, but the Slumber Coaches were still the Best Deal Ever!
I used to Love eating Breakfast in Virginia heading back to DC after visiting my dad in South Carolina.( even in regular Sleepers the Meals were a la Carte)
Apparently, there was a downgrade of dining car food sometime in the late 1980s-early 1990s. It wasn't all over the system. I rode the Capitol Limited in 1989, and the food service on the diner was pretty good. (I also rode in the prototype Viewliner diner on that trip.)
A few years later, in the 2000s (before flex), I rode the Crescent a couple of times. Heritage diners. Perfectly fine food service.
crescent-zephyr
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Oh yeah, Amtrak dining cars have been going up and down in quality the entire time. I remember my dad being very disappointed when they introduced the cafeteria-style diner lounge on the Texas Eagle in the early 90's I guess?
Riding the Crescent before Simplified Dining Service was basically like the good-ole days. Then there was simplified dining service ( all pre-plated and reheated food - similar to flex but a bit better quality and still served in the dining car). When they re-introduced the full menu from flex I took a same day turn from Atlanta to Birmingham and back just to order a steak cause I was so happy they were returning.
Now flex.. and we wait... haha.
Wasn't it around 1990-ish, that Amtrak sent all of its chef's to a special course at the Culinary Institute of America? IIRC, at that period, chef's were each encouraged to create their own "signature" dish, which was a featured item in the full service diner's of the time...
I also rode the Cap between Martinsburg, WVA and either South Bend, IN or Chicago in the late '80's and early '90's. Ex-SOU prez Graham Claytor was Amtrak chief then. I was a frequent regular on the Cap then and got to know the crew pretty well. The on-board service chief was a Mr. Washington whose first name I unfortunately forget. From the passenger list, the guys always knew when I'd be aboard and almost always was I treated to my favorite red snapper in the still-first class diner. "Becky" was a frequent engineer, and I recall that she didn't like being late into Pittsburgh. You knew when she was in charge if you were in the diner. There is no current equivalent to the old Budd Vistadome coach on that run. The view forward through the front dome windows over the top of the entire train and the repeat S-curves into and out of the Allegheny mountain tunnels simply has no peer today. But the CAP event that we will never forget occurred on May 17, 1988, on our wedding anniversary. I managed to get through to the commissary at Ivy City and had a bottle of champagne and a cake put aboard. It totally surprised my wife (and the rest of the diners) when the champagne and the cake with glowing sparklers was brought out to our table. My subsequent letter to Mr. Claytor was the beginning of a regular correspondence with him to the end of his presidency. My other regular wonderful run in that era was the Night Owl (the former PRR-NH Federal) between DC and Boston. An eastbound must was the signature oysters up in the main waiting room restaurant above the info booth prior to train time. All gone now.
Yes, it may have been early 2000’s as I rode the CONO then and had an outstanding meal. I complimented the chef and he talked with me a bit and said he was using his own spices for the blackened catfish.
Also remember being very surprised about then hearing Senate leader (not sure if minority or majority then) Lott, talking on a national news quick clip about the need to provide decent meal service on Amtrak (he was from Mississippi and mentioned the Crescent). He worked with Dem leader Tip O’Neal on that- remember when congress used to be effective?
Also remember being very surprised about then hearing Senate leader (not sure if minority or majority then) Lott, talking on a national news quick clip about the need to provide decent meal service on Amtrak (he was from Mississippi and mentioned the Crescent). He worked with Dem leader Tip O’Neal on that- remember when congress used to be effective?
I went looking on the Guilford County, NC GIS site and on the property page for the Galyon Depot in Greensboro since that was a station that had daily SR service with the Southern Crescent and now Crescent and it is where I live. On the Wikipedia page it mentions the SR donated the depot to the city in 1978 and I was trying to find the exact date on the deed. The GIS website lists 1/1/1900 as the date, which must be code for "we don't have the exact date recorded." A donation in 1978 would be pre-Amtrak takeover of the Crescent.
On the Owner History Card, which can be viewed as a TIFF file the year 1981 is mentioned. Post-Amtrak takeover but before the SR/N&W merger to make the modern NS.
My question is about the stations along the SR mainline.
Did the SR donate some or all the stations along the line just before handing over the Crescent to Amtrak, which was my original thought, or were all the stations donated AFTER, which could be a conclusion if the 1981 year has any meaning? Was Greensboro just unique in that Amtrak moved the station a few miles west to the freight yard, and this was a way for SR to unload the upkeep of the property and maybe get some good PR for the donation.
On the Owner History Card, which can be viewed as a TIFF file the year 1981 is mentioned. Post-Amtrak takeover but before the SR/N&W merger to make the modern NS.
My question is about the stations along the SR mainline.
Did the SR donate some or all the stations along the line just before handing over the Crescent to Amtrak, which was my original thought, or were all the stations donated AFTER, which could be a conclusion if the 1981 year has any meaning? Was Greensboro just unique in that Amtrak moved the station a few miles west to the freight yard, and this was a way for SR to unload the upkeep of the property and maybe get some good PR for the donation.
Metra Electric Rider
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So... you didn't have your ham & eggs in Carolina?
dadonatrain
Service Attendant
Once again, I apologize I cannot speak from personal experience with the Central Railway Museum’s collection, but I can say that the old station in Central, SC, has been renovated and relocated a couple blocks from where it once stood when Southern Railway passenger service was active.
i'm not an early riser and the Sun didn't come up till we were in Virginia!
It looks like the deeds <1982 are not indexed, hence the missing date. The depot GIS property record shows a deed reference of: book 3123, page 69.
If you look that up in the non-indexed deeds section of the Guilford Real Estate records site, it shows a quit claim transfer of ~1.9 acres on E Washington Street to the City of Greensboro. The date is Sept 19th, 1980.
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I got to experience that dome in the summer of 1985. I was riding the Broadway Limited from Chicago to Paoli PA and at that time the Broadway and Cap were combined as far as Pittsburgh. Unfortunately that meant that we did not have it for the most scenic part between Pittsburgh and Harrisburg. But it was still fun to ride it across Indiana.
How did you find that scan? There is clearly something I am missing in my internet sleuthing in that I have never find the paperwork you posted. EDIT: I found the website for all of this. I had no idea that existed. There seems to be some pages before page 69 for other parts of all of this and I am not sure how many pages, but there seems to be a few pages into the 70s.
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It's a thicket of info for sure. Glad to hear you figured it out. It's similar to a couple of other NC counties where I have gone down a rabbit hole of plats, maps, deeds and transfers.
All this discussion of Heritage sleepers! Coaches cold be just as diverse. Here's a photo of Train 798, the Mount Rainier leaving Portland for Seattle in 1974. Light meals were served in the observation-lounge. Don Leap, who caught this scene under the then new Fremont Bridge, has passed away. He handed this over to me when we were working on saving what became the Cascade Corridor.
