Holiday rail horror story

[jj_2]

Quick synopsis:

Train car found to have a wheel issue. Train stopped on track to address (including car removal to replace the problematic car with a new car + reattach). However, what happened is nothing short of a disaster on Amtrak's part. The big question is... is this something that Amtrak should truly make right with its passengers? Read on.

As you can see in this post, I am seeking member feedback about how to handle this with Amtrak.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Amtrak/comments/5kxr3e/amtrak_302_on_12292016_from_lincoln_905am_late/

The problems:

• Passengers moved to train car with less seats than prior train car (some passengers left standing)
  
• Crew locks passengers in car - literally, locks the passengers in the car (no crew member remains behind to help passengers)
  
• Crew turns off power + air, and bathroom door locks are broken (see below); no water offered
  
• Entire train detaches from car and leaves car, alone, with passengers on it (with no Amtrak rep on-board) for > 1 hour
  
• One passenger locks themselves in the bathroom and cannot get out (no crew to assist - this happened later)
  
• Passengers left on train car with 2-3 newly released felons, no security present
  
• Spotty phone service + no internet service (since train car is orphaned)
  
• 2-3 trains whiz past the sole car, leaving passengers to wonder (aloud) whether control knew the car was left alone on the track
  
• 1+ hours later, train returns (unannounced), banging into the orphaned car at 5+ miles per hour (several old people standing, one nearly falls)
  
• 15+ minutes past that, door opens and no explanation, water, or consolation is offered (at all)
  

Thanks.

 

[Steve4031]

Amtrak is having its problems. This was my girlfriend's experience and our letter to Amtrak.

Mr. Charles W. Moorman IV

Amtrak President and CEO

60 Massachusetts Ave., NE

Washington, DC 20002

Dear Mr. Charles W. Moorman IV, I was on board Amtrak 303 on 12/10/16. This train experienced a delay of 7 hours 30 minutes on a trip that normally takes 5 hours and 30 minutes. Shortly after we left Chicago the train stopped and there was an announcement that the air compressor in the engine had malfunctioned. We waited a couple of hours and a replacement locomotive from the CN railroad was attached to our train. We continued our way. The CN locomotive experienced more problems and the train was unable to run at top speed. We eventually stopped and sat. Eventually the train that left Chicago at 1:45 pm caught up to 303. Both trains, if I understand correctly, were combined. At this point we we're already about 5 hours late. We lost an additional 2 or 3 hours because we were late and had to take the sidings for meets with other trains. In addition to the delays, the heat was often off in the business class end of the car so I had to sit at the tables in the other end of the car to stay warm. I wore my heavy winter coat for most of the trip. Mr. Moorman, the Midwest hub out of Chicago needs your assistance in achieving a stronger safety and service culture for Amtrak. You need to determine how the air compressor failed 20 minutes into the trip. This one component had gigantic ramification on the safety of the Amtrak crew and the passengers. I agree with Mr. Anthony Coscia and the Board of Directors at Amtrak that Mr. Moorman can further launch initiatives that will further enhance safety and customer service as well as modernize operations and guide in the implementation of the FAST ACT. On a positive note, there were three employees who showed respect, consideration, cooperation, and appreciation of each other as well as the passengers as they worked together as a team to provide unparalleled service during adversity. The first was the Lead service attendant, Dan, in the snack car. He kept the business class passengers updated throughout the duration of the trip. Since the intercom was not working he got information from the conductor and relayed it to the business class passengers. He stayed on his feet working the entire trip. I never saw him sit down to take a break. At the end of the trip he helped with my luggage and helped me off the train. The second person I would like compliment is the conductor, Lynn. Because of her efforts, we were blessed to arrive in St. Louis safely. After the air compressor in the original engine failed, Conductor Lynn did her intelligent best with a very complicated situation. Conductor Lynn efforts to communicate the dispatcher and Amtrak management to get a replacement engine were commendable. Then, later in the trip she again had to work with the dispatcher, Amtrak management, and the crew of train 21 to combine 21 and 303 so that we could continue safely to our destination. Lastly, the African American red cap in the St. Louis station was very helpful. Many passengers were verbally abusive towards him because they were frustrated about the delays. Some used profanity. This man remained calm and helpful to each of the passengers he helped regardless of their treatment of him. When Dan placed my luggage on the platform the redcap placed them on the cart and drove me and the other passengers to the cab stand where I had only a few steps to take to the cab. I gladly gave him a tip. Some of the other ladies on the redcap cart who had originally been abusive tipped him too. One also apologized for the passengers’ treatment of him.

 

[crescent-zephyr]

Hire a lawyer. If this is as bad as it sounds crews need to be fired and charged for attempted manslaughter since people could easily have died due to employee negligence.

If you were a witness to this... Please contact the FRA, federal rail authority, they need to be aware of this. do not stop with customer service... You need to talk to managers.

 

[Seaboard92]

Honestly doesn't sound awful to me. I think they could have handled it better. But I definitely understand you lock it so no one gets out and wanders the right of way. And so no one gets hurt on the couple. Now a TA-C should have stayed on the car at times. But it's not a hard move switching wise to do. Just need to uncouple the cars behind no matter how many, pull forward with the train including bad car. Place it in the siding, and back back in. And five mph seeks fairly fast for a couple but it isn't that wouldn't be the worst I e dealt with.

I've been on a train setting a locomotive out and that took an hour.

 

[A Voice]

Quick synopsis:

Train car found to have a wheel issue. Train stopped on track to address (including car removal to replace the problematic car with a new car + reattach). However, what happened is nothing short of a disaster on Amtrak's part. The big question is... is this something that Amtrak should truly make right with its passengers? Read on.

As you can see in this post, I am seeking member feedback about how to handle this with Amtrak.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Amtrak/comments/5kxr3e/amtrak_302_on_12292016_from_lincoln_905am_late/

The problems:

• Passengers moved to train car with less seats than prior train car (some passengers left standing)
  
• Crew locks passengers in car - literally, locks the passengers in the car (no crew member remains behind to help passengers)
  
• Crew turns off power + air, and bathroom door locks are broken (see below); no water offered
  
• Entire train detaches from car and leaves car, alone, with passengers on it (with no Amtrak rep on-board) for > 1 hour
  
• One passenger locks themselves in the bathroom and cannot get out (no crew to assist - this happened later)
  
• Passengers left on train car with 2-3 newly released felons, no security present
  
• Spotty phone service + no internet service (since train car is orphaned)
  
• 2-3 trains whiz past the sole car, leaving passengers to wonder (aloud) whether control knew the car was left alone on the track
  
• 1+ hours later, train returns (unannounced), banging into the orphaned car at 5+ miles per hour (several old people standing, one nearly falls)
  
• 15+ minutes past that, door opens and no explanation, water, or consolation is offered (at all)
  

Thanks.

The real problem here is simple lack of communication; In fact, most or all the subsequent issues stem from that. Unfortunately, poor information from crew to passengers in an unusual, unplanned situation isn't a new problem, and can be disconcerting to passengers. Part of the poor communication problem centers around the crew being busy taking care of whatever the problem is, rather than take time to explain it in detail, but that's really no excuse, It sounds like a one minute explanation would have helped many of your concerns (admittedly we don't know the details either, so excuse us if we make an erroneous assumption).

The car would have been secured for everyone's own safety; Clearly you don't want someone exiting the car into the path of a passing train, and a car with fewer seats may have been all that remained to accommodate you. You were never in any danger, and setting out a car can take around an hour (it shouldn't, but that's another story). There is no way to leave the power on during all this, because AC comes from the locomotive, which has necessarily detached from your car. Certainly an explanation should have been provided, even after the fact would have been much better than nothing.

What train was this, anyway? There should have been a crew member remain with you, but again without knowing the details, its hard to say why none remained with the stranded car. May I ask how you know there were "newly released felons" onboard, and how is lack of security pertinent? There wouldn't have been any security if there had never been a problem, either.

I would expect you should probably receive some small compensation for the confusion and delay (poor customer service, honestly), but frankly, it doesn't sound like the situation was really the disaster it first appears. Again, much depends on the details we don't know.

 

[jj_2]

Quick synopsis:

Train car found to have a wheel issue. Train stopped on track to address (including car removal to replace the problematic car with a new car + reattach). However, what happened is nothing short of a disaster on Amtrak's part. The big question is... is this something that Amtrak should truly make right with its passengers? Read on.

As you can see in this post, I am seeking member feedback about how to handle this with Amtrak.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Amtrak/comments/5kxr3e/amtrak_302_on_12292016_from_lincoln_905am_late/

The problems:

• Passengers moved to train car with less seats than prior train car (some passengers left standing)
  
• Crew locks passengers in car - literally, locks the passengers in the car (no crew member remains behind to help passengers)
  
• Crew turns off power + air, and bathroom door locks are broken (see below); no water offered
  
• Entire train detaches from car and leaves car, alone, with passengers on it (with no Amtrak rep on-board) for > 1 hour
  
• One passenger locks themselves in the bathroom and cannot get out (no crew to assist - this happened later)
  
• Passengers left on train car with 2-3 newly released felons, no security present
  
• Spotty phone service + no internet service (since train car is orphaned)
  
• 2-3 trains whiz past the sole car, leaving passengers to wonder (aloud) whether control knew the car was left alone on the track
  
• 1+ hours later, train returns (unannounced), banging into the orphaned car at 5+ miles per hour (several old people standing, one nearly falls)
  
• 15+ minutes past that, door opens and no explanation, water, or consolation is offered (at all)
  

Thanks.

The real problem here is simple lack of communication; In fact, most or all the subsequent issues stem from that. Unfortunately, poor information from crew to passengers in an unusual, unplanned situation isn't a new problem, and can be disconcerting to passengers. Part of the poor communication problem centers around the crew being busy taking care of whatever the problem is, rather than take time to explain it in detail, but that's really no excuse, It sounds like a one minute explanation would have helped many of your concerns (admittedly we don't know the details either, so excuse us if we make an erroneous assumption).

The car would have been secured for everyone's own safety; Clearly you don't want someone exiting the car into the path of a passing train, and a car with fewer seats may have been all that remained to accommodate you. You were never in any danger, and setting out a car can take around an hour (it shouldn't, but that's another story). There is no way to leave the power on during all this, because AC comes from the locomotive, which has necessarily detached from your car. Certainly an explanation should have been provided, even after the fact would have been much better than nothing.

What train was this, anyway? There should have been a crew member remain with you, but again without knowing the details, its hard to say why none remained with the stranded car. May I ask how you know there were "newly released felons" onboard, and how is lack of security pertinent? There wouldn't have been any security if there had never been a problem, either.

I would expect you should probably receive some small compensation for the confusion and delay (poor customer service, honestly), but frankly, it doesn't sound like the situation was really the disaster it first appears. Again, much depends on the details we don't know.

Your note sounds pretty rational. Thanks for the insight. In general, I think the biggest problem was having nobody from Amtrak on our car when they left us alone on the track for 1+ hours. There were some people on the car > 80 years old, and I don't think it was the right think for Amtrak to do.

I know there were some newly released felons because they boarded at Lincoln (where I boarded) and I talked to the security officer who "watched them" until they boarded the train bound for Chicago. They didn't seem violent, but who can tell. There is a reason that security did not take eyes off them in Lincoln until they were on the train.

I think that the worst part about the whole ordeal is the communication and being left with no way to communicate with people (no cell service, no Internet since the main train departed). If we'd had somebody from Amtrak with a radio, it would have helped. I cannot imagine what the liability would look like if one of the older passengers had had a problem and there was no way to contact anyone.

I'm not sure if I mentioned this, but somebody locked themselves in the bathroom (> 15 minutes before they managed to pry the door open). Again - there was no crew member on-board to help, and it could have been worse (e.g. small child).

I reached out to Amtrak for more information. They gave me a travel voucher for the value of my ride after I persisted with 4+ people about the problem. But it was very, very disheartening that most of the people I spoke with completely dismissed my issue and told me "there's nothing we can do". I believe that there IS accountability on the part of whoever decided that leaving a car full of worried passengers alone on the track was the right thing to do. Yes, it would have been simple to make the situation better. But whoever was at the helm made a really bad decision, while trying to fix another issue.

 

[crescent-zephyr]

Please contact FRA, you can't lock passengers up on a mainline alone for an hour.

 

[seat38a]

Why would there need to be security for the newly released felons??? They didn't escape from prison. They did their time and there is no laws that I know of that prevents ex cons from riding on the trian.

 

[A Voice]

Please contact FRA, you can't lock passengers up on a mainline alone for an hour.

What does this rule actually say? There has to be sufficient personnel onboard to have someone in both sections of the train while also actually fixing the problem (Ie., setting out the bad ordered car). If there is simply no one to spare, you either leave one car unattended or leave the train sitting there on the main (probably for hours) awaiting help; That's not going to happen. So again, just what does the rulebook have to say?

 

[crescent-zephyr]

I'm not sure... But I think the FRA would be interested to hear from an eye witness.

Do we know what train it was? Was there a cafe attendant who could have shut down the cafe and stayed with passengers? Coach attendant?

 

[CCC1007]

I'm not sure... But I think the FRA would be interested to hear from an eye witness.

Do we know what train it was? Was there a cafe attendant who could have shut down the cafe and stayed with passengers? Coach attendant?

It was, from the op, train 303(10)

 

[MattW]

I'm not sure... But I think the FRA would be interested to hear from an eye witness.

Do we know what train it was? Was there a cafe attendant who could have shut down the cafe and stayed with passengers? Coach attendant?

What FRA violations do you see in all of this? I'm genuinely curious to know what you see that merits an FRA investigation.

 

[KmH]

It's well known that some of the least reliable testimony gathered in an investigation comes from eye witnesses.

Was it 2 or 3 three trains that went past?

was it 2 or 3 people recently released from prison?

Comments like those and - 1+ hours, 15+ minutes, and 5+ mph - could make investigators wonder about those numbers.

I would think the vast majority of people in the car were adults, right?

 

[crescent-zephyr]

Simple... If passengers died as a result of this crews negligence do you think the FRA would be involved?

 

[Seaboard92]

I don't see any FRA violations at all. Do I see poor customer service yes, but anything against the law no.

 

[Steve4031]

It's an unusual but not unforeseen situation. On 303 there would be three crew members. The conductor and assistant conductor plus the lsa. The conductor and assistant conductor would have to focus on the operation required to set out the problem car. It is not clear if the lsa is required by Amtrak rule to stay with the food in the snack car.

It doesn't make sense imho for the crew to not move the pax from the bad ordered car into a part of the train that would continue on. That is usually what happens.

 

[Steve4031]

Though locking pax in with convicts might make a great horror movie plot, these guys had done their time. They were also outnumbered and probably more anxious then the others to get on with their business.

 

[Don Newcomb]

Why would there need to be security for the newly released felons??? They didn't escape from prison. They did their time and there is no laws that I know of that prevents ex cons from riding on the trian.

If this is Lincoln, Illinois, it's a minimum security facility, AFAIK.

P.S. I wonder what Amtrak would have done if someone had used an emergency exit?

 

[Just-Thinking-51]

My heartache is why relocate the pax to a car that is going to be unhooked. Why not move them forward to car that will stay with the engine. Sure there will be a crowd, but the HEP will be only off for a few seconds. And your Crew will be available if any issues arise. They after you dropped the bad car you can spread pax out.

 

[neroden]

Please contact FRA, you can't lock passengers up on a mainline alone for an hour.

Yeah, having the passengers alone in a disconnected car, not at a platform, with no crew member, for an hour, has got to be illegal; it is most certainly dangerous. I can't quote chapter and verse, but I'd start by reporting this directly to Wick Moorman, because some employees need to be fired for safety violations. And I think Wick would do that.

If there's an engineer, a conductor, an assistant conductor, and an OBS person, there is sufficient crew to have someone with each half of the disconnected train. (The removal of the bad-ordered car can be done by two people, engineer and conductor. If there are two more, there's enough to handle both halves.) If there were fewer than this number, it would have been necessary for the crew to give a very clear explanation that the car was going to sit unattended for an hour and offer passengers the option of going into the other part of the train (the cafe for example).

So, to the original poster: write a letter to Wick Moorman (his address is in this thread) explaining what happened

You should add in the letter that Mr Moorman said in an interview that he was trying to create a culture of safety. Also explain that this was an unsafe situation; if someone had had a medical emergency, there would have been no crew to assist and the passengers would have been forced to break the windows and self-evacuate in an uncontrolled manner.

Don't mention the "felons", it's not helpful.

State that you expect a reply within some specific reasonable amount of time (a month, perhaps).

If you don't get a response, call a lawyer. Seriously.

To be clear: the really big problem here is the lack of an Amtrak employee on the disconnected car.

 

[jj_2]

This is an interesting discussion, and I appreciate the input. I can firm up the numbers, as mentioned above.

2 trains went past (that I saw)

2 released felons (that the security guard in Lincoln told me about)

Passengers left alone on orphaned car 1 hour

Passenger stuck in bathroom no more than 15 minutes (they forced the door open with some help)

The only one I can't confirm is the speed the train bumped our car (no announcement to tell us that was about to happen).

This train had a beverage / food car. There was someone on-duty.

I don't know how to get in touch with the people you are mentioning. Does anyone have a phone number or email for somebody who would listen to me?

Again, I boarded Lincoln on Amtrak 302 on 12/29/2016 at 9:20am (it was due 9:05am but was late). It was headed to Chicago, and the orphaned car in question was train car 54571. I took a note... in case any of you feel like passing this along. You sound better connected with Amtrak than I am, clearly (it took me 4 calls just to get a travel voucher... which I can't say I'm feeling urgent to use!).

I have no unnecessary ill will against Amtrak. I simply feel that this went beyond poor customer service and ventured into something quite sketchy. But, as many of you say, perhaps not outright illegal.

Thanks for the opinions and insight. It helps.

 

[neroden]

To be clear, the part which was dangerous and probably illegal was leaving you in an isolated car with no Amtrak employee available for an hour. Emphasize that. If there had been a medical emergency, what would have happened with no Amtrak employee to assist? Passengers would have eventually self-evacuated, removing the emergency exit windows, etc. Amtrak realy doesn't want this.

Don't mention the ex-prisoners who finished serving their time, it doesn't help your case.

It's disgraceful that you didn't get a more appropriate response from Amtrak so far.

Your next step should be to write a letter to Amtrak's CEO, Charles Moorman, whose office address is in the second post in this thread, emphasizing the safety risk of leaving a car with passengers in it completely unattended and isolated, far from any platform, for over an hour.

(Basically if everything else had been the same but there had been an employee in the orphaned car, this would have been OK.)

Tell him all the details you have notes of and what you remember (omitting the "felons" stuff) but emphasize the lack of any Amtrak employees on the isolated car.

You should also explain that you got the runaround from Amtrak Customer Relations, and that you are very concerned that this sort of unsafe and dangerous situation will happen again.

If he doesn't respond, your next step is basically to send the same letter to different people, such as the FRA administrator... or your Congressman, asking him to start an investigation. But give the CEO a chance to respond first.

 

[jj_2]

Thanks for the input, Nathanael. That seems more than fair to me. I just hope they / he responds. I will let you all know.

To anyone who reads this - to be very clear - I have no issue with the newly released felons. However, it simply added to the experience in a negative way. You see, when one arrives at the Lincoln depot and is met with prison security who explains what is happening (and you are the only person in the depot with said people)... it makes for some degree of raised eyebrows. I noticed that all other passengers who were waiting steered clear of the little depot building, perhaps for this very reason. However, I have nothing against those people, their time served, and their new chance at a clean and free life.

 

[crescent-zephyr]

I echo what Neroden said. I still think the FRA may be interested in this... But he's right. Would be best to address it to higher ups at Amtak first.

 

[jj_2]