How have you found the patronage on Amtrak LD trains lately?

[unitedstatesfan]

The NARP statistics on Amtrak ridership (patronage) by train name are very interesting although I wish they were presented as boardings only, because this would eliminate double counting:

https://www.narprail.org/our-issues/reports-and-white-papers/ridership-statistics/

It would also be good if total annual boardings from each LD station stop for each LD train for the three year comparison were shown. This has only been done for shorter distance routes.

How have travellers found patronage on Amtrak LD trains lately? Lots of on/offs at smaller stations? Good utilisation of both the coach and sleeping car classes and cars?

Apart from the 'Denver cutoff' coach, have extra sleepers or sitters been attached to any Amtrak LD trains in July or August 2016?

Is the longest Superliner consist of any LD train 11 cars, or longer?

 

[CCC1007]

The NARP statistics on Amtrak ridership (patronage) by train name are very interesting although I wish they were presented as boardings only, because this would eliminate double counting:

https://www.narprail.org/our-issues/reports-and-white-papers/ridership-statistics/

It would also be good if total annual boardings from each LD station stop for each LD train for the three year comparison were shown. This has only been done for shorter distance routes.

How have travellers found patronage on Amtrak LD trains lately? Lots of on/offs at smaller stations? Good utilisation of both the coach and sleeping car classes and cars?

Apart from the 'Denver cutoff' coach, have extra sleepers or sitters been attached to any Amtrak LD trains in July or August 2016?

Is the longest Superliner consist of any LD train 11 cars, or longer?

The auto train on the east coast currently has the longest superliner consist at 16-17 cars before the auto carriers, and the next longest is the coast starlight with 10 superliners and a hi-level Pacific Parlor Car for sleeper passengers. In reality that car can be substituted with a different one, either a sightseer lounge or a cross country cafe, but the sleeper and coach count is the same between the starlight and the builder.

 

[chakk]

Rode the CZ,EB, and CS in July. All 3 were sold out in sleepers and nearly sold out in coaches for most of the journeys.

 

[BCL]

I went on a day trip to Salinas, California from Emeryville. I wasn't the only one making that specific trip. Altogether I would say about 20 departed at Salinas, which is a small station only served by the Coast Starlight. It also has two Amtrak employees working solo most days, although the employee I talked to said that two,days overlap. On my return I noticed maybe a dozen passengers boarding.

Salinas itself isn't much of a tourist destination. There is the Steinbeck museum and the Steinbeck house. It is a connection point to Monterey by bus.

 

[Paul CHI]

I've been checking CZ fares CHI-DEN and find that roomettes are often sold out, or if not, very expensive compared with past experience.

 

[KmH]

It's still high season and lots of people are traveling.

It seems Amtrak more easily sells sleeper accommodations between CHI and DEN than it does between DEN and EMY or CHI to EMY.

But often people cancel a roomette close to the date they had it reserved for because their plans changed.

Back on June 22 I made a CZ reservation - Ottumwa to Davis - for $342.65.

That includes a roomette from Denver to Davis

I am traveling on Oct. 17, a low season date.

If I booked today for the same Oct. 17 travel date, the same trip would be $490.

If I wanted to book the same trip today (roomette from Denver to Davis) for travel starting September 6 the fare would be $654.65.

There are no roomettes available OTM to DEN on Sept. 6.

It pays to book well in advance, and to avoid high season, if possible.

 

[TinCan782]

The auto train on the east coast currently has the longest superliner consist at 16-17 cars before the auto carriers, and the next longest is the coast starlight with 10 superliners and a hi-level Pacific Parlor Car for sleeper passengers. In reality that car can be substituted with a different one, either a sightseer lounge or a cross country cafe, but the sleeper and coach count is the same between the starlight and the builder.

Coast Starlight - Did you also count the Business Class "coach" between the SSL and diner?

 

[CCC1007]

The auto train on the east coast currently has the longest superliner consist at 16-17 cars before the auto carriers, and the next longest is the coast starlight with 10 superliners and a hi-level Pacific Parlor Car for sleeper passengers. In reality that car can be substituted with a different one, either a sightseer lounge or a cross country cafe, but the sleeper and coach count is the same between the starlight and the builder.

Coast Starlight - Did you also count the Business Class "coach" between the SSL and diner?

Yes as that car just changed locations in the consist.

 

[Lonestar648]

When I traveled on the TE, SL, CS, EB in June, all the sleepers were sold out most of the distance. Many times, we heard the Conductors tell passengers that at the next stop there were as many boarding as were getting off so every seat would still be occupied. On each of the trains, overnight, the SSL would be littered with coach passengers sleeping across the booths, seats, on the floors, and where ever they could find space. Many looked more uncomfortable than sitting up in Coach. Summer LD travel seems to be sold out most days. The SL had two sold out sleepers plus the Trans rooms, The CS had 3+ sleepers sold, the EB 3+, and the TE 1+ when the sleeper is 421/422. Now, when I travel in the winter, early Spring, Fall, (non holiday times) I rarely have a problem scheduling my travel which always includes some sleepers.

 

[seat38a]

SWC westbound was sold out in the sleepers. The SCA told me that 90% were getting off in Arizona. There seems to be lots of Grand Canyon families taking the train.

 

[unitedstatesfan]

It is high season in the USA, but nonetheless very pleasing to hear from multiple, very kind forum members that patronage on the LD trains is quite good (at least at this time of year).

Each sleeper carries up to 42 passengers although I assume many compartments are sold to solo travellers. It would be great if an extra sleeper could be attached to trains such as CS where the demand might be there at peak season but I assume Amtrak lacks sufficient spares, and perhaps sufficient crew (SCAs).

.

 

[west point]

East coast also full to the brim. Crescent especially has very few seats on ATL <> WASH.

 

[jis]

The Silver Star that I am on right now, approaching Cary NC is apparently quite full both in Coach and Sleeper.

 

[Alexandria Nick]

I was on the Palmetto from ALX to SAV and back this week. Pack to the roof both ways. Was surprised how many people that had boarded before me were bound for Savannah.

In turn, I was surprised how many people getting on in Savannah were heading for Richmond. Almost half my car, really. All that filled back up with people for Washington and points beyond.

 

[2sk21]

The Capitol limited that we took yesterday was completely full in both coach and sleeper.

 

[west point]

If all these east coast LD trains are having one or more full legs that is disturbing. For the want of the V-2 sleepers and another 25 coaches to increase capacity what would that show for passenger growth ?

This problem brings up a interesting item that happened in the past.

1. Amtrak's reservation system has a pedigree that goes back to the 1980s that is a child of a certain airline's reservation system.

2. That system would list any flight to be considered to be cancelled if it showed no ridership growth. Guess what happened to a flight that was consistently full ? Of course with so many flights some full flights would pass thru the cracks.

3. So if a Amtrak train runs full will there be no reservation recommendation to add cars ? Or worse still no recommendation to Congress ?

 

[Carolina Special]

Logically there have to be financial analysts at Amtrak looking at the traffic numbers on a regular basis, and making recommendations. Decision would not all be based on what the computer spits out: that would be absurd.

 

[chakk]

But, as others have noted (and I have persomally experienced many times), outside of summer and holiday periods most LD trains are much less than half full. So management is unlikely to purchase more equipment for use in peak periods that will then sit idle for more than 7 months each year.

 

[neroden]

But, as others have noted (and I have persomally experienced many times), outside of summer and holiday periods most LD trains are much less than half full. So management is unlikely to purchase more equipment for use in peak periods that will then sit idle for more than 7 months each year.

This is completely untrue. And the reason you have this misapprehension is something which I have been trying to correct repeatedly. You are misgeneralizing from the western transcons to all the trains. I *really hate it* when people do this. This blinkered thinking has hurt the eastern LD trains repeatedly.

The Lake Shore Limited has been consistently about half full, both coach and sleeper, during the weakest month of the year, February. (This wasn't true in 2015 thanks to the NS Autorouter disaster, but ridership is returning to this pattern again.)

Last time I took the Coast Starlight in February, it also tended to be more than half full in coach, though not in sleeper

The western transcontinentals do run significantly less than half full in February.

I haven't actually been on the other single-level LD trains, but apparently winter is actually very strong for the Silver Star and Silver Meteor.

A year or two back, someone did a "seasonality" analysis on the trains. The western transcons were the most seasonal. IIRC the single-level trains to Florida were the least seasonal.

Bluntly, the single-level LD trains are plenty full to justify more equipment even in the weakest months. Management SHOULD purchase more single-level equipment for these trains, and it will NOT sit idle.

The high seasonality of the western Transcons makes it a lot harder to justify new Superliners. Though Chicago-Denver seems to be developing solid year-round ridership.

 

[niemi24s]

Not being sure if there is any way to tell how full a train is from the Amtrak Monthly Reports, I simply divided the total ridership of each long distance train for the past two Augusts by the past two Februarys and came up with an average of 1.53 for the "seasonality" for all the LD trains. Based on these numbers the most seasonal (the one with the largest quotient) was the Cardinal with 1.90 and the least seasonal (the one with the smallest quotient) was the Texas Eagle with 1.16. If I get a chance, I'll put something together showing these quotients for all 15 of the LD trains.

Here's where everybody has the opportunity to chime in with why those numbers are meaningless - without offering anything quantitative in their place.

 

[unitedstatesfan]

You might have to adjust for the different numbers of days in February v August, niemi24s, noting that one of the Februarys was a leap year.

However, yes, this would most interesting. I calculated above that a typical number of passengers for a CS trip was 617, but of course not everyone is aboard at once, as there are many alighting or boarding at intermediate stations.

 

[chakk]

A train that is half full doesn't need any more cars.

But a train that is full might need more cars.

So the LSL, Cardinal, and Florida trains might well use more cars profitably.

The Superliner trains could certainly use replacement cars, as many of them are in pitiful condition.

 

[niemi24s]

Here's the complete set of data glimpsed in Post #20, compensated for the numbers of days in the months:

Most Seasonal = Car = 1.90 CS = 1.74 CL = 1.60 SM = 1.46 AT = 1.34

LSL = 1.78 EB = 1.73 Cre = 1.55 SL = 1.45 CONO = 1.29

Pal = 1.75 SWC = 1.64 CZ = 1.54 SS = 1.36 TE = 1.16 = Least Seasonal

The average "seasonality" for all 15 LD trains = 1.53

However, I'm not sure compensation/correction for the number of days in the month is actually needed. That's because if it is needed, wouldn't the number of trains each week need compensation too? :blink:

Regards

 

[unitedstatesfan]

niemi24s, yes, you're correct because my comment about 'compensating' was more about patronage than seasonality.

If there is demand for extra LD cars for six or seven months a year, surely that is worthwhile?

We must consider capital costs, which are high, but if the demand is good then the fares charged can probably be in the higher buckets.

Three sleepers on a typical LD train (plus a transition dorm) is not really many. An extra sleeper on some of the LD trains in season would put more pressure on the dining car staff but would be great in providing the opportunity for more to ride the rails in comfort.

As an alternative, given the age of the existing Superliner fleet, is there any opportunity for Amtrak to slightly decrease its number of sleepers in for maintenance and provide an extra sleeper on say the CS on some trips during the busiest months?

 

[niemi24s]

Figures in Post #23 amended to show ridership ratios not compensated for the number of days in the months. While the numbers are slightly greater, each is greater by the same amount so the ranking of the 15 LD trains is unchanged.

Am unable to answer any of Unitedstatesfan's questions.