I got the inside scoop...and ofcourse I think it stinks.

[GP35]

Amtrak kills the Sunset and uses trainsets to run daily CHI-SAS-LAX. The remaining sleepers will go to California LD trains.

A few coaches will go for a daily SAS-NOL snub train and a daily NOL-Florida snub train. That makes over 1,000 miles of a snub

train between SAS-Florida. A fancy bus service on rails. This is what we get for billions in extra funding, 100 repaired coaches, and new orders. Your 21st

century Amtrak.

 

[Joel N. Weber II]

I thought nothing about this was final yet.

You could certainly write to your Congresspeople and Amtrak stating that you think it's inappropriate for Amtrak to take equipment away from the Sunset Limited, and that if they want to expand the Texas Eagle, you think the most appropriate way for them to do this would be to order new rolling stock for the Texas Eagle, and wait for delivery of that new rolling stock before making service changes.

 

[GP35]

I thought nothing about this was final yet.
You could certainly write to your Congresspeople and Amtrak stating that you think it's inappropriate for Amtrak to take equipment away from the Sunset Limited, and that if they want to expand the Texas Eagle, you think the most appropriate way for them to do this would be to order new rolling stock for the Texas Eagle, and wait for delivery of that new rolling stock before making service changes.

I write Amtrak and Sen. Hutichison all the time. My local congress-person is anti-Amtrak so he might actually support Amtrak on this plan.

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

I thought nothing about this was final yet.
You could certainly write to your Congresspeople and Amtrak stating that you think it's inappropriate for Amtrak to take equipment away from the Sunset Limited, and that if they want to expand the Texas Eagle, you think the most appropriate way for them to do this would be to order new rolling stock for the Texas Eagle, and wait for delivery of that new rolling stock before making service changes.

I write Amtrak and Sen. Hutichison all the time. My local congress-person is anti-Amtrak so he might actually support Amtrak on this plan.

You realize that BOTH Senators represent you, correct? Throw in your Representative and your Gov who believe it or not does have some sway-- and you have four.

As for your "scoop"... enough of it. Until you produce a paper signed and approved by Amtrak saying "this is what we're going to do..." I shant believe ANYBODY's word on the SSL as it is just pointless conjecture!

 

[henryj]

Amtrak kills the Sunset and uses trainsets to run daily CHI-SAS-LAX. The remaining sleepers will go to California LD trains.A few coaches will go for a daily SAS-NOL snub train and a daily NOL-Florida snub train. That makes over 1,000 miles of a snub

train between SAS-Florida. A fancy bus service on rails. This is what we get for billions in extra funding, 100 repaired coaches, and new orders. Your 21st

century Amtrak.

GP35 there are no remaining sleepers to distribute anywhere. It takes every sleeper now dedicated to the Eagle/Sunset service to run a daily Eagle which requires seven sets of equipment. As for any surplus coaches, I presume would be used on the stub trains. So there isn't going to be an equipment dividend by making these changes. If anything it will require more equipment. But, there is other news, this from 'All Aboard':

Just a brief response on this. I've received highly reliable inside

information that Amtrak is "conflicted" on this issue - the proposal

as described is just a PROPOSAL being advanced by some elements of

Amtrak's middle management. This is not a done deal. There is

considerable support for maintaining an LA-NOL Sunset (with that

name) with a separate connector train east from NOL.

LH

At 2009/05/07 16:27, Gene Poon wrote:

>ANONYMOUS (from an Amtrak official for forwarding to discussion

>groups):

>

> > I wanted to clarify a number of misconceptions that have come

> > up about the revamped Sunset Limited proposal that was

> > presented by Brian Rosenwald in Los Angeles to RailPAC.

> >

> > First of all, this is nothing more than a proposal that is

> > under development and discussion, and at this time has not

> > been finalized or approved by Amtrak's Executive Committee or

> > Board of Directors.

> >

> > 1) As part of this proposal, the Texas Eagle (see name caveat

> > below) would run from Chicago - San Antonio - Los Angeles

> > daily, and a connecting Superliner train (with checked

> > baggage and meal service) would operate from New Orleans -

> > San Antonio daily.

> >

> > 2) Make no mistake, this proposal would restore daily service

> > to all points on the Sunset route. Tri-weekly service is

> > inefficient, confusing to passengers, results in poor

> > financial performance, and presents a number of marketing and

> > other challenges. The only bias that Amtrak had going into

> > this analysis was to have daily service on this route.

> >

> > 3) As presented to RailPAC, the analysis for this proposal

> > showed over 100,000 additional yearly riders for the

> > proposal, along with significant revenue increases. The

> > analysis took into account ridership demand, forecast demand,

> > and markets.

> >

> > 4) The transfer in San Antonio from the thru train to the

> > connecting train would NOT be in the middle of the night. As

> > part of the proposed schedule, the eastbound train would

> > leave Los Angeles after 10 PM, arriving San Antonio around 6

> > AM, and the eastbound connecting train would leave around

> > 7:30 AM. Going west, the connecting train would leave New

> > Orleans around 10:30 AM, arrive New Orleans around 11:30 PM,

> > and passengers could then get on the Eagle before it departs.

> > Again, no schedule has been approved by any host RR and this

> > is only a discussion at this time.

> >

> > 5) No name has been chosen for either service. This is

> > certainly up to discussion and is probably the least of the

> > concerns.

> >

> > 6) This proposal is completely independent of the Sunset-East

> > study, and would not end the possibility of re-instating a

> > transcontinental service, should the corporation decide to do

> > so. Thru-cars could potentially operate between Los Angeles,

> > San Antonio, and New Orleans, and even continue to points

> > east should this be what the study recommends.

 

[Chatter163]

It always amazes me how much "inside info" our people are supposedly privy to on this forum, and how most of it ends up being completely erroneous.

 

[Ryan]

GP35 there are no remaining sleepers to distribute anywhere. It takes every sleeper now dedicated to the Eagle/Sunset service to run a daily Eagle which requires seven sets of equipment.

While this may be true now, there will be a handful of repaired superliner sleepers coming out of the Grove in the not to distant future that will be available for service.

 

[Joel N. Weber II]

While this may be true now, there will be a handful of repaired superliner sleepers coming out of the Grove in the not to distant future that will be available for service.

And I thought the plan was more or less that all of those 20 Superliners are going to the Empire Builder. (IIRC, the dining cars are going to the Capitol Limited which will give its CCC cars to the Empire Builder, but the net result of this is that the Capitol Limited should end up with the same number of Superliner cars it has now, and the Empire Builder will gain the CCC cars.)

 

[Green Maned Lion]

It always amazes me how much "inside info" our people are supposedly privy to on this forum, and how most of it ends up being completely erroneous.

I have several sources, so let me explain how it works:

Transit person A believes in proposal B. A tells me that proposal B is getting approval because thats what he thinks.

Transit Person C believes in proposal D. C tells me that proposal D is getting approval because thats what he thinks.

I report to my transit coalition that A said B and C said D. People in my group think that either B or D is going to happen.

Meanwhile, transit person E, who happens to have the ear of upper management more than A and C, convinces the company to go with idea F. A and C are reliable sources because they are upper management in the transit company. (In my case, NJ Transit, which I follow closer then Amtrak when it comes to internal plans).

They aren't the only sources, and you fall down a slippery slope if you lose sight of that.

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

A B C D E F... G-M-L....

 

[amtrakwolverine]

this sounds just like this song here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ED4aZ3nAnw8

A told B, and B told C, "I'll meet you at the top of the coconut tree."

 

[photoeditor]

I don't think it's something to get up in arms about. It's a logical way to get to daily service on the Sunset given Amtrak's current equipment shortage. The main issue, whether or not this plan gets adopted, is to ensure that at least some stimulus money or regular capital appropriation goes on additional long-distance equipment, including more Superliner sleeping cars. The Superliner has been around a while, a fair few of them have been wrecked, and attrition gradually catches up with you if you don't order new equipment.

 

[ScottC4746]

As for your "scoop"... enough of it. Until you produce a paper signed and approved by Amtrak saying "this is what we're going to do..." I shant believe ANYBODY's word on the SSL as it is just pointless conjecture!

Here Here!!!

I am with you...until I see something at www.amtrak.com or http://www.fra.dot.gov/us/home let's hear no more about it. It is all hearsay!

 

[ScottC4746]

It always amazes me how much "inside info" our people are supposedly privy to on this forum, and how most of it ends up being completely erroneous.

I have several sources, so let me explain how it works:

Transit person A believes in proposal B. A tells me that proposal B is getting approval because thats what he thinks.

Transit Person C believes in proposal D. C tells me that proposal D is getting approval because thats what he thinks.

I report to my transit coalition that A said B and C said D. People in my group think that either B or D is going to happen.

Meanwhile, transit person E, who happens to have the ear of upper management more than A and C, convinces the company to go with idea F. A and C are reliable sources because they are upper management in the transit company. (In my case, NJ Transit, which I follow closer then Amtrak when it comes to internal plans).

They aren't the only sources, and you fall down a slippery slope if you lose sight of that.

See this is the problem here...the word "think" is comming up too much. Unless someone who has their hand on the axe actually says "we are going to do this" than it is all speculation.

 

[Larry H.]

While this may be true now, there will be a handful of repaired superliner sleepers coming out of the Grove in the not to distant future that will be available for service.

And I thought the plan was more or less that all of those 20 Superliners are going to the Empire Builder. (IIRC, the dining cars are going to the Capitol Limited which will give its CCC cars to the Empire Builder, but the net result of this is that the Capitol Limited should end up with the same number of Superliner cars it has now, and the Empire Builder will gain the CCC cars.)

Exactly what would those CCC Cars do on the Empire Builder? Surely they aren't going to remove the diners there too? It wouldn't make much of a lounge either, so what is the purpose? Only hope for those I would see would be say in use on shorter distance routes where it is long enough to need food an lounge service but not overnight where a diner is the only decent option.

 

[jis]

Exactly what would those CCC Cars do on the Empire Builder? Surely they aren't going to remove the diners there too? It wouldn't make much of a lounge either, so what is the purpose? Only hope for those I would see would be say in use on shorter distance routes where it is long enough to need food an lounge service but not overnight where a diner is the only decent option.

My thought is that the CCC could find good use on the Portland Section between Spokane and Portland.

 

[AlanB]

While this may be true now, there will be a handful of repaired superliner sleepers coming out of the Grove in the not to distant future that will be available for service.

And I thought the plan was more or less that all of those 20 Superliners are going to the Empire Builder. (IIRC, the dining cars are going to the Capitol Limited which will give its CCC cars to the Empire Builder, but the net result of this is that the Capitol Limited should end up with the same number of Superliner cars it has now, and the Empire Builder will gain the CCC cars.)

Exactly what would those CCC Cars do on the Empire Builder? Surely they aren't going to remove the diners there too? It wouldn't make much of a lounge either, so what is the purpose? Only hope for those I would see would be say in use on shorter distance routes where it is long enough to need food an lounge service but not overnight where a diner is the only decent option.

Well the idea is that the CCC would provide a cooked meal to the passengers riding on 27/28 west of the split in Spokanne, instead of the current boxed meals that they get. The Sightseer would then go to Seattle so as to continue to provide cafe service for that section of the train. Right now the LSA operates a quasi-cafe out of the dining car.

 

[jis]

Well the idea is that the CCC would provide a cooked meal to the passengers riding on 27/28 west of the split in Spokanne, instead of the current boxed meals that they get. The Sightseer would then go to Seattle so as to continue to provide cafe service for that section of the train. Right now the LSA operates a quasi-cafe out of the dining car.

I presume a similar thing will happen with the LSL when full Diner is restored. The Diner will go to New York and the Diner-Lite will go to Boston, and it will serve as the Cafe west of Albany.

 

[AlanB]

Well the idea is that the CCC would provide a cooked meal to the passengers riding on 27/28 west of the split in Spokanne, instead of the current boxed meals that they get. The Sightseer would then go to Seattle so as to continue to provide cafe service for that section of the train. Right now the LSA operates a quasi-cafe out of the dining car.

I presume a similar thing will happen with the LSL when full Diner is restored. The Diner will go to New York and the Diner-Lite will go to Boston, and it will serve as the Cafe west of Albany.

Yes, that's what seems to be coming out of the current plans, which are based upon fixing so many of the wrecks as well as getting the Viewliner Diner prototype back on the road.

 

[JayPea]

Well the idea is that the CCC would provide a cooked meal to the passengers riding on 27/28 west of the split in Spokanne, instead of the current boxed meals that they get. The Sightseer would then go to Seattle so as to continue to provide cafe service for that section of the train. Right now the LSA operates a quasi-cafe out of the dining car.

I'd like that idea. The boxed meals on the Portland section don't amount to anything. And a Sightseer lounge on the Seattle section would be well-received, IMHO. There are lots of good scenic opportunities between Wenatchee and Seattle, in particular.

 

[Joel N. Weber II]

Well the idea is that the CCC would provide a cooked meal to the passengers riding on 27/28 west of the split in Spokanne, instead of the current boxed meals that they get. The Sightseer would then go to Seattle so as to continue to provide cafe service for that section of the train. Right now the LSA operates a quasi-cafe out of the dining car.

I presume a similar thing will happen with the LSL when full Diner is restored. The Diner will go to New York and the Diner-Lite will go to Boston, and it will serve as the Cafe west of Albany.

Yes, that's what seems to be coming out of the current plans, which are based upon fixing so many of the wrecks as well as getting the Viewliner Diner prototype back on the road.

I thought they were also planning to upgrade more of the Amfleet II cafe cars (or whatever exactly they're called) to have convection ovens (and thus meet Diner-Lite standards) as well. (I keep wondering if this will lead to better cafe car food if they start being able to use convection ovens to heat some items sold in the cafe car, but Amtrak doesn't seem to have said anything official about this.)

 

[printman2000]

While this may be true now, there will be a handful of repaired superliner sleepers coming out of the Grove in the not to distant future that will be available for service.

And I thought the plan was more or less that all of those 20 Superliners are going to the Empire Builder. (IIRC, the dining cars are going to the Capitol Limited which will give its CCC cars to the Empire Builder, but the net result of this is that the Capitol Limited should end up with the same number of Superliner cars it has now, and the Empire Builder will gain the CCC cars.)

Exactly what would those CCC Cars do on the Empire Builder? Surely they aren't going to remove the diners there too? It wouldn't make much of a lounge either, so what is the purpose? Only hope for those I would see would be say in use on shorter distance routes where it is long enough to need food an lounge service but not overnight where a diner is the only decent option.

Well the idea is that the CCC would provide a cooked meal to the passengers riding on 27/28 west of the split in Spokanne, instead of the current boxed meals that they get. The Sightseer would then go to Seattle so as to continue to provide cafe service for that section of the train. Right now the LSA operates a quasi-cafe out of the dining car.

So how would it used before the split?

 

[Joel N. Weber II]

Well the idea is that the CCC would provide a cooked meal to the passengers riding on 27/28 west of the split in Spokanne, instead of the current boxed meals that they get. The Sightseer would then go to Seattle so as to continue to provide cafe service for that section of the train. Right now the LSA operates a quasi-cafe out of the dining car.

So how would it used before the split?

I'm not sure the Capitol Limited would be giving up enough CCC cars to operate them east of Spokanne.

 

[AlanB]

Well the idea is that the CCC would provide a cooked meal to the passengers riding on 27/28 west of the split in Spokanne, instead of the current boxed meals that they get. The Sightseer would then go to Seattle so as to continue to provide cafe service for that section of the train. Right now the LSA operates a quasi-cafe out of the dining car.

I presume a similar thing will happen with the LSL when full Diner is restored. The Diner will go to New York and the Diner-Lite will go to Boston, and it will serve as the Cafe west of Albany.

Yes, that's what seems to be coming out of the current plans, which are based upon fixing so many of the wrecks as well as getting the Viewliner Diner prototype back on the road.

I thought they were also planning to upgrade more of the Amfleet II cafe cars (or whatever exactly they're called) to have convection ovens (and thus meet Diner-Lite standards) as well. (I keep wondering if this will lead to better cafe car food if they start being able to use convection ovens to heat some items sold in the cafe car, but Amtrak doesn't seem to have said anything official about this.)

Seven are slated for conversion this year, but so far production is running behind.

 

[printman2000]

While this may be true now, there will be a handful of repaired superliner sleepers coming out of the Grove in the not to distant future that will be available for service.

And I thought the plan was more or less that all of those 20 Superliners are going to the Empire Builder. (IIRC, the dining cars are going to the Capitol Limited which will give its CCC cars to the Empire Builder, but the net result of this is that the Capitol Limited should end up with the same number of Superliner cars it has now, and the Empire Builder will gain the CCC cars.)

Exactly what would those CCC Cars do on the Empire Builder? Surely they aren't going to remove the diners there too? It wouldn't make much of a lounge either, so what is the purpose? Only hope for those I would see would be say in use on shorter distance routes where it is long enough to need food an lounge service but not overnight where a diner is the only decent option.

Well the idea is that the CCC would provide a cooked meal to the passengers riding on 27/28 west of the split in Spokanne, instead of the current boxed meals that they get. The Sightseer would then go to Seattle so as to continue to provide cafe service for that section of the train. Right now the LSA operates a quasi-cafe out of the dining car.

So how would it used before the split?

To clarify, I was wondering how a CCC would be used on the Empire Builder East of Spokane. Sleeper lounge or just an additional lounge?