Ryan
Court Jester
Usually people do research, learn facts and then draw conclusions.
Not so sure about this ready, fire, aim method of posting.
Not so sure about this ready, fire, aim method of posting.
I will continue to choose to speak solely about Amtrak and not forum members. The numbers posted show that the available equipment has gone down. Not to argue the point but a fact is that Amtrak equipment is also aging. Yes rolling stock can be rebuilt but eventually that becomes prohibitively expensive. East of the Mississippi more Viewliner coaches may be needed and who can determine what the end of the lifespan, is for the older Superliners.Don't confuse Dennis' carefully constructed opinions with actual facts. He's impervious to them.In September 2007, 180 Superliner II cars were in service. Today, February 2017, 185 Superliner Ii cars are serviceable.Look back at the last 10 years and all of the rolling stock lost to accidents. Point is that there will come a point in the next few years when insufficient equipment to meet demand comes to fruition.
In September 2007 there were 239 Superliner I cars available. Today there are 242.
The number of available singe-level long-distance cars is also expanding slightly with Viewliner II deliveries.
This doesn't exactly support your contention that the car supply is shrinking and will soon be inadequate to meet demand.
At the end of the day what matters to me is that there is still a significant rail system in operation, and I hope and want it to continue that way. I don't only say this as a railfan but I also say it because I strongly believe the positive effects of passenger railroads (and railroads as a whole) on society, the environment, the economy etc is largely understimated and misunderstood.I will continue to choose to speak solely about Amtrak and not forum members. The numbers posted show that the available equipment has gone down. Not to argue the point but a fact is that Amtrak equipment is also aging. Yes rolling stock can be rebuilt but eventually that becomes prohibitively expensive. East of the Mississippi more Viewliner coaches may be needed and who can determine what the end of the lifespan, is for the older Superliners.
The Trump administration has called for improvements to the transportation infrastructure including the passenger rail network. Three weeks into a new administration its difficult to say what that approach will be but until now our president has done all his work in the private sector. Wick Mooreman has also worked solely in the private sector. I do not take a strong position on the public vs private argument. Its hard to tell which would serve the American people better. I just comment on the future of passenger rail as I envision it .
IMO, during the next four years, we will see a public/private partnership running a portion of the nations passenger rail system. I hope to still be riding the rails in this period so if you accept a wager for lunch on this prediction just let me know.
What are these "posted numbers" to which you refer? The numbers I posted - the same numbers you quoted above - plainly show a slight increase in the number of cars in service.I will continue to choose to speak solely about Amtrak and not forum members. The numbers posted show that the available equipment has gone down. Not to argue the point but a fact is that Amtrak equipment is also aging. Yes rolling stock can be rebuilt but eventually that becomes prohibitively expensive. East of the Mississippi more Viewliner coaches may be needed and who can determine what the end of the lifespan, is for the older Superliners.Don't confuse Dennis' carefully constructed opinions with actual facts. He's impervious to them.In September 2007, 180 Superliner II cars were in service. Today, February 2017, 185 Superliner Ii cars are serviceable.Look back at the last 10 years and all of the rolling stock lost to accidents. Point is that there will come a point in the next few years when insufficient equipment to meet demand comes to fruition.
In September 2007 there were 239 Superliner I cars available. Today there are 242.
The number of available singe-level long-distance cars is also expanding slightly with Viewliner II deliveries.
This doesn't exactly support your contention that the car supply is shrinking and will soon be inadequate to meet demand.
The Trump administration has called for improvements to the transportation infrastructure including the passenger rail network. Three weeks into a new administration its difficult to say what that approach will be but until now our president has done all his work in the private sector. Wick Mooreman has also worked solely in the private sector. I do not take a strong position on the public vs private argument. Its hard to tell which would serve the American people better. I just comment on the future of passenger rail as I envision it .
IMO, during the next four years, we will see a public/private partnership running a portion of the nations passenger rail system. I hope to still be riding the rails in this period so if you accept a wager for lunch on this prediction just let me know.
I assume the theory is based on these private companies ordering new rail passenger equipment, but that takes time, more than an arbitrary four years. Also, just who are these private companies who want to invest funds in a money-losing passenger rail operation? How are they supposed to get new cars delivered any faster than a government operated entity?I'm more wondering how contracting out operations to a private company suddenly results in a significant increase in equipment. I'm not aware of any company in the US that has a significant amount of passenger rail equipment sitting around that can run frequently as Amtrak's equipment does.
The heavy shop is pushing out more wreck cars. However the number of cars that have been total and scrap is a ever growing number. Is this going to cause a collapse of the Western Train. Not today, but given time it will have negative impact. It simple math. You need to look at the long picture, not the last 8-10 years the Superliner 1 enter service in 1979.Am I reading things wrong? It looks to me that the # of cars increased over the last 10 years.
While I disagree with your conclusion regarding a public/private partnership, it was not that your position was wholly unreasonable - indeed, there have been proposals for a private entity to operate three such routes under contract. Predictably, such a plan has gone nowhere.In keeping with the open exchange of ideas and opinions; I would like to clarify my point before many of the posters here suffer from high blood pressure. What I really believe will happen is a public/private partnership on some LD Amtrak routes. Amtrak has something like 30 million passengers that travel every year and the government is always looking to save money, especially when the name Amtrak comes up. . Now consider the perpetual lack of sufficient funding for the service, the thinking of current leadership in the house, senate, oval office and the position to rebuild Americas transportation infrastructure. It is reasonable to believe that Amtrak will continue on but why should we rule out a public/private partnership? Its just an opinion and a prediction but is this really so far out of the question? if so explain why this will not happen.
I still think the Brightline executives are going to prove that saying correct - the hard way. But I digress.To paraphrase an old saying: How do you turn a large fortune into a smaller one?
Answer:Invest in Passenger Rail. YMMV
Nah, they own enough real estate around the Miami Station alone to make a profit. Historically land development is the consistent way to make money off passenger trains. The trains themselves break even at best, but being next to a station increases the value of the property as residential or office property (or even, in the old days, agricultural property).I still think the Brightline executives are going to prove that saying correct - the hard way. But I digress.
Railway Gazette has a larger article about new jobs at Brightline.CEO Michael Reininger is moving to parent company Florida East Coast Industries ...
"Reininger confirmed that he was now focusing on the second phase of the Brightline project. ...
"FECI was already looking at extending the Brightline service north from Cocoa to Jacksonville and west from Orlando to Tampa. But Reininger said ‘we’re going to look beyond’, to find other potential inter-city corridors in which to replicate the rail-plus-property model. ‘Florida is not the only area where there are overcrowded roads and interstates’, he pointed out. ‘We are fulfilling our vision here in Florida, but we are not exclusively bound by the state borders. We have a belief that major cities that are 500 to 600 km apart set themselves up as prime candidates for express passenger rail, and can be made to work. ... "
It can be argued that Brightline in phase 1, unless it expands north of West Palm Beach, is really just a glorified commuter service. And its privately operated.Didn't this article get posted in another thread a couple weeks ago?
At any rate, I'm not sure what you mean by "more private commuter lines." There are currently no private commuter lines in the US (or Canada), unless you're referring to commuter rail agencies that pay (contract with) private entities to operate commuter rail.
Exactly my thoughts. Often the spirit is unrealistically willing but at the end of the day the flesh turns out to be weak. There is no enormous flow demand in Vermont on that route waiting for someone to pick up 1% of it to fill up trains.Call me skeptical, but I would be shocked to see these plans actually come to be...
Vermont couldn't even sustain its former state-wide Vermont Transit bus (privately owned), so how can they hope to succeed with trains, which certainly are more costly to operate?
If Brightline does not expand beyond the Miami - West Palm Beach phase, yes, I'd agree that's commuter service. Miami - Orlando, though, is intercity.It can be argued that Brightline in phase 1, unless it expands north of West Palm Beach, is really just a glorified commuter service. And its privately operated.Didn't this article get posted in another thread a couple weeks ago?
At any rate, I'm not sure what you mean by "more private commuter lines." There are currently no private commuter lines in the US (or Canada), unless you're referring to commuter rail agencies that pay (contract with) private entities to operate commuter rail.
Must agree with the logic, but what drove All Earth to spend millions on these trains? Are they just looking for the large government subsidy? Maybe some politicians feel that it would help their cause to claim that they brought commuter rail to the state. The major population center in Vermont is in the Burlington area but AFAIK rail commuting in that state has never been attempted. Many questions remain unanswered.Exactly my thoughts. Often the spirit is unrealistically willing but at the end of the day the flesh turns out to be weak. There is no enormous flow demand in Vermont on that route waiting for someone to pick up 1% of it to fill up trains.Call me skeptical, but I would be shocked to see these plans actually come to be...
Vermont couldn't even sustain its former state-wide Vermont Transit bus (privately owned), so how can they hope to succeed with trains, which certainly are more costly to operate?
I was not aware of that and looking further om wiki, we find that the federal government gave Vermont $18 million for track improvements and station work. It used old RDC cars, and the fare was $1 on the honor system. The Vermont commuter service experienced low ridership and was cancelled. I just wonder how All Earth plans to do it differently and succeed with a new venture. Could be to just get some federal and state government money, run it for a short period and then retire. Time will tellChamplain Flyer was a commuter rail service that operated in Burlington in the early 2000s.
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