I took a trip down to Pittsfield, MA today to see how the new intermodal transportation center is comming along and I wasnt expecting to see the Lake Shore Limted there since it was due a while ago. Well on my way there I was on a road which travels parallel to the tracks across a small valley and I happened to glance a silver blur go by going westbound, this got me exited so I hurried down to the train station where I saw 449 throttling out of the Depot St station with P42s 13? and 51 both in the phase V scheme (I think the first one was 13, they were on a bridge and it was hard to see the number I could be mistaken though because I thought the lower numbered units were still in the phase IV) a baggage car, a viewliner, two Amfleet II coaches in the phase IV and an Amfleet I cafe. Well at least this train had Amfleet II coaches and a Viewliner after hearing this train often ran without a sleeper and with Amfleet I or horizon coaches. The Amfleet I cafe was out of place on the train but I understand that there is a shortage of Amfleet II lounges or something. No mail and express what so ever, the train looked pretty healthy today. Anways the new bus/train station going up in Pittsfield looks quite huge! That thing is gonna be a sweet station compared to the little Amshack thats there now, which has its share of graffitti on it now.
Lake Shore Limited In Pittsfield today
- Thread starter P40Power
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Amfleet
Engineer
Thanks for the update P40Power. Glad to see the LSL is lookin good. When I was in South Station in February it had a Horizon Dinette, Amfleet I Coach, Amfleet II, and a Viewliner. Did the Cafe you saw apear to have tables in it or was it an all coach type.
It was going over a bridge and I was just driving up when I saw it so I couldnt see inside but the side of the car said Cafe and arent the Amcafes the ones with just seats? The cafe also looked like it still had Northeast Direct markings on it as well
Viewliner
Engineer
Yes, they are. Thanks for the update.
Cafe- Coach Seats on Both Sides of Food Service Area.
Dinette-Coach seats on one side of Food Service Area, tables on the other.
Lounge-Tables on Both Sides of Food Service Area.
Cafe- Coach Seats on Both Sides of Food Service Area.
Dinette-Coach seats on one side of Food Service Area, tables on the other.
Lounge-Tables on Both Sides of Food Service Area.
Amfleet
Engineer
There are so many combinations for food service cars, but I would guess it was an all coach version. It would be nice to see all Dinettes or Lounges on the LSL as a snack bar is not good enough for an overnight trip. What ever happened to the ex-Shorliner Lounges? They had the same layout as an Amfleet II and would be suitable for LD service.
I remember seeing Twlight Viewliners come through Pittsfield on the Lake Shore Limited a few times and I think I recal a time one of the Twlight Lounges rolling through. Oh I think the food service cars with tables are much better, when I get something in the dinette like a burger or something I like a table to sit down and eat my food and watch the senery go by. I dont mind going back to my coach seat but I prefer a nice table so I can spread out a bit while Im eating and maybe talk to a couple of other, play a game of cards or something. I wouldnt like sitting in the coach seats of a cafe car anyways, I mean there would be like constant traffic in the car, even more so then a regular coach, just not the kind of atmosphere I would like. Now back in the mid 90s the Boston section would ALWAYS have an Amfleet II lounge on it, but when they switched the consists around in 1997 the II lounges dissapeared and were replaced with whatever Amfleet food service cars that were sittin around in either Albany or Boston. Now that the Boston lounge continues on once more to Chicago one would think that it would have an Amfleet II lounge again.
Viewliner
Engineer
Yes, I agree, I prefer to sit in the lounge as well, rather than head to the sleeper. I feel its one of those unique train experiences. Now if only we had some Viewliner Sightseer Lounges, and/or some Domes...
Plus those Coaches aren't good for the conductors/passengers either, as the conductor has no "office" at the table, and thus has to sit in either the coach seats, or Dorm (Bad for passengers, as if he/she's needed they can't get to them).
I believe for a while the Amfleet II lounge was on the NY Section, and the Boston Section had an Amfleet I taken on/off in Albany. Recently they switched the lounge to the Boston Section, with NY keeping the diner. I hope that the reasoning is that maybe more went for Concept 2000 refurbs, although I seriously doubt it. I would hope/think that if those seats are utilized in the Cafe, that they're for passengers traveling short haul.
I wish that rather than an Amfleet I Cafe, if they can't get an Amfleet I (Twilight Shoreliner) Lounge, that they'd spare a capstone car, with Acela-like interior, as it still beats coach seats.
Plus those Coaches aren't good for the conductors/passengers either, as the conductor has no "office" at the table, and thus has to sit in either the coach seats, or Dorm (Bad for passengers, as if he/she's needed they can't get to them).
I believe for a while the Amfleet II lounge was on the NY Section, and the Boston Section had an Amfleet I taken on/off in Albany. Recently they switched the lounge to the Boston Section, with NY keeping the diner. I hope that the reasoning is that maybe more went for Concept 2000 refurbs, although I seriously doubt it. I would hope/think that if those seats are utilized in the Cafe, that they're for passengers traveling short haul.
I wish that rather than an Amfleet I Cafe, if they can't get an Amfleet I (Twilight Shoreliner) Lounge, that they'd spare a capstone car, with Acela-like interior, as it still beats coach seats.
I cant say that I have ever experienced the Capstone cafes since they are pretty rare but I have seen pictures of the inside of them and they look very uncomfortable to me, but then again I have never rode in one. Yes when the Amfleet II lounge was running on the 1997-2002 set up of the Lake Shore an Amfleet I food service would be taken on and off at Albany rensslear on the boston section. Before 1997, the Boston Amfleet II or Heritage lounge would be on all the way to Chicago and an Amfleet I cafe would be put on, along with a few Amfleet I coaches, the ALB-NYP leg of the train. The Amfleet Is being put on were for local passengers. Now, the cafe goes with the boston section again but the ALB-NYP train doesnt have a cafe. The new set up makes the ALB dwell times much shorter, especially without them damn mail and express cars but the big delays now are from the stupid schedules of the train which have the trains meet at the station or on the single tracked B&A which causes delays to both
Amfleet
Engineer
They are very uncomfortable and people tend to slide off them over rough track. It also makes havic when eating messy food, so I take everything back to my seat. On the positive side the color schemes are very nice and bring a new life to the car and the way the food service area is set up allows for a more unified line to be formed instead of the mob that forms around a normal snack bar.
Ive seen some Mobs form a couple of times in the lounge cars. The worse one wast the one comming back from Chicago in 1997 on the Lake Shore. We boarded about a half an hour before the 6PM departure but we were heald for 2 hours for an connecting train from the west heald up by a landslide. They did a smart thing by opening up the Lounge while we were still in the station but they didnt open the diner for some reason. The line extended from the lounge right through to the coach behind it. But there were something crazy like 500 people on that sold out train. Back then the combined Lake Shore used to be HUGE with 7 Amfleet II coaches, 3 viewliners. a lounge and diner, a Heritage Sleeper for the crew, a Boston and new york baggage car and ususally there were anywhere to 3-5 or more MHCs on the back of the train. It was quite a walk to the diner since we were back in the last Boston coach. I also remember the Amfleet II food service cars having an odd table arrangement in the Lounge portion, they were like all grouped together in odd positions. The dinette side of the lounge had the normal table seating arrangements.
Amfleet
Engineer
This brings up another thing with the LSL, one would think with 6 Amfleet II Coaches and 3 Viewliner Sleepers, which is about a 450 passenger capacity, that two Lounges would be needed. I think a full Lounge on the New York section and a Dinette Coach on the Boston section would be suitable. The Diner probably has enough on there hands trying to handle 90 Sleeping Car passengers with only 40 seats per seating.
That night on the train the number of people FAR exceeded the capacity of the food service cars, I mean reservations were required in the car and they went till like Midnight and the Lounge was constantly filled with a line. Amfleet that isnt a bad Idea having two amfleet food cars during peak ridership times, like you said it would relieve some of the congestion. I mean when it takes you 45 minutes of waiting in line to get a pepsi thats just uncalled for!
Amfleet
Engineer
Another way of getting rid of congestion would be to have to service attendants. One working one side of the bar and the other on the other side of the bar, hence forming two lines.
Viewliner
Engineer
Also, maybe a Table car, like there used to be on the Auto Train, would work to handle the overflow of the Diner (And Lounge), allowing more capacity for the Diner at each sitting. I think you guys do bring up some good points for the Lake Shore.Amfleet said:
A table car would be a great idea I think, maybe rip out the seating on a couple of the old Clocker coaches or something and just put in a bunch of tables and just run them at the peak travel times, but with the extra seating there will be increased demand on the dining car crew because now they would have to serve the people waiting in the table car as well I would figure.
Viewliner
Engineer
I think we still have one or two Table Cars sitting in Sanford from the Auto Train. I guess there would have to be an extra person or two for the diner if a Table Car were added, but it would allow more people to eat at one sitting.P40Power said:
Amfleet
Engineer
There is a problem with that though. The kitchen of a Heritage Diner was designed to hold and prepare only enough meals to serve about 50 passengers per seating. The only way I could see them being able to add more tables in a designated car is to limit the menu to 3 items per meal.
I dont know about Amtrak still having a few table cars around, maybe they do. I remember seeing a couple up for sale on that Illinois Transit website that always has all those passenger cars for sale. Amfleet is probably right, there will have to most likely be more food preperation capacity. Also how is the capacity for storing food an such in a diner? It cant be that big. Back in 1997 on my trip to chicago, I remember dining car staff running into the Amfleet II lounge to get boxes of supplies once in a while for the dining car.
Amfleet
Engineer
I've only been in a rebuilt Diner, but the whole back wall (on the isle side, opposite the ovens and stove tops) was refridgeration units. Then much of the dry goods were stored in the prep area where that counter is. It's amazing how much prep can be done in such a small space.
Oh it must be an art preparing food in the diner. All the chefs and other dining car staff running around in such tight quarters with many different orders all comming while the train is rockin around . . . Im sure there has been many, many spills and broken china in the kitchen before!
Amfleet
Engineer
I actually believe it is not real china that is used anymore. If I recall, it is a thin plastic/glass material that is very hard to break. We have some in our kitchen and my parents have had them for over 20 years and not one is broken.
As for 3 Dining Car Atendants and two chefs, they certainly put on a show every meal.
As for 3 Dining Car Atendants and two chefs, they certainly put on a show every meal.
Well I wouldn't say every meal, although I do agree that they do a good job most of the time.Amfleet said:
However as I mention in my trip report from last December, I did hit one crew that did not put on a good show.
The westbound trip on the Lake Shore wasnt too good in the diner back in 97, the waitress serving us looked pissed off (pardon the french) and acted like it too. There were no menus, the meals being offered for breakfast were scribbled on the back of ripped up cardboard and handed to the passengers. The diner was overcrowded and the car was quite dirty. On the upside the meal was good! The eastbound trip was more enjoyable in the diner
Amfleet
Engineer
I think the Dining Cars kind of went rock botton in 96'-97'. Isn't that when the stupid "Family Menu" was introduced on the Silver Service? Now you can be assured to get a good meal on the new national menu and the menus are mass produced.
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