Largest cities without Amtrak service?

[DET63]

I would think that Phoenix would be the largest American city without daily Amtrak service. What are the largest cities without any Amtrak service at all (excluding cities in Alaska and Hawaii)? What are the largest cities in the U.S. with passenger rail service of some kind, but not Amtrak?

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

Columbus Ohio is on that list.

 

[JayPea]

Las Vegas is up there, too, as far as cities with no Amtrak service. Other good-sized cities without Amtrak service that come to mind are Louisville and Nashville.

 

[DET63]

San Francisco doesn't have Amtrak service, though it does have intercity passenger-rail service through Caltrain (although it's really more of a commuter-rail service). Of course, you can buy an Amtrak ticket from San Francisco and take a short bus ride across the Bay Bridge to Emeryville and catch an Amtrak LD (i.e., CZ or CS) or Capitol Corridor train there.

 

[jmbgeg]

Here are the 100 largest MSA's for reference:

. Los Angeles-Long Beach, CA 51. Raleigh-Durham-Chapel Hill, NC

2. New York, NY 52. Hartford, CT

3. Chicago, IL PMSA 53. Buffalo-Niagara Falls, NY

4. Philadelphia, PA-NJ 54. Middlesex-Somerset-Hunterdon, NJ

5. Washington, DC-MD-VA-WV 55. Memphis, TN-AR-MS

6. Detroit, MI 56. West Palm Beach-Boca Raton, FL

7. Houston, TX 57. Monmouth-Ocean, NJ

8. Atlanta, GA 58. Jacksonville, FL

9. Dallas, TX 59. Rochester, NY

10. Boston, MA-NH 60. Grand Rapids-Muskegon-Holland, MI

11. Riverside-San Bernardino, CA 61. Oklahoma City, OK

12. Phoenix-Mesa, AZ 62. Louisville, KY-IN

13. Minneapolis-St. Paul, MN-WI 63. Richmond-Petersburg, VA

14. Orange County, CA 64. Greenville-Spartanburg-Anderson, SC

15. San Diego, CA 65. Dayton-Springfield, OH

16. Nassau-Suffolk, NY 66. Fresno, CA

17. St. Louis, MO-IL 67. Birmingham, AL

18. Baltimore, MD 68. Honolulu, HI

19. Seattle-Bellevue-Everett, WA 69. Albany-Schenectady-Troy, NY

20. Tampa-St. Petersburg-Clearwater, FL 70. Tucson, AZ

21. Oakland, CA 71. Tulsa, OK

22. Pittsburgh, PA 72. Ventura, CA

23. Miami, FL 73. Syracuse, NY

24. Cleveland-Lorain-Elyria, OH 74. Omaha, NE-IA

25. Denver, CO 75. Albuquerque, NM

26. Newark, NJ 76. Tacoma, WA

27. San Juan-Bayamon, PR 77. Akron, OH

28. Portland-Vancouver, OR-WA 78. Knoxville, TN

29. Kansas City, MO-KS 79. El Paso, TX

30. San Francisco, CA 80. Bakersfield, CA

31. Fort Worth-Arlington, TX 81. Allentown-Bethlehem-Easton, PA

32. San Jose, CA 82. Gary, IN

33. Cincinnati, OH-KY-IN 83. Harrisburg-Lebanon-Carlisle, PA

34. Orlando, FL 84. Scranton-Wilkes-Barre-Hazleton, PA

35. Sacramento, CA 85. Toledo, OH

36. Fort Lauderdale, FL 86. Jersey City, NJ

37. Indianapolis, IN 87. Baton Rouge, LA

38. San Antonio, TX 88. Youngstown-Warren, OH

39. Norfolk-Virginia Beach-Newport News, VA-NC 89. Springfield, MA

40. Las Vegas, NV-AZ 90. Sarasota-Bradenton, FL

41. Columbus, OH 91. Wilmington-Newark, DE-MD

42. Milwaukee-Waukesha, WI 92. Little Rock-North Little Rock, AR

43. Charlotte-Gastonia-Rock Hill, NC-SC 93. Ann Arbor, MI

44. Bergen-Passaic, NJ 94. McAllen-Edinburg-Mission, TX

45. New Orleans, LA 95. Stockton-Lodi, CA

46. Salt Lake City-Ogden, UT 96. Charleston-North Charleston, SC

47. Greensboro-Winston-Salem-High Point, NC 97. Wichita, KS

48. Austin-San Marcos, TX 98. New Haven-Meriden, CT

49. Nashville, TN 99. Mobile, AL

50. Providence-Fall River-Warwick, RI-MA 100. Columbia, SC

* This MSA list represents the 100 largest MSAs based on U.S. Census data from 1990 to 2000. Additional MSAs may be added based on subsequent Census updates. 47 C.F.R. 52.21(a).

 

[stntylr]

Does motorcoach service count?

I know in Texas #94 McAllen only has motorcoach service.

 

[jackal]

Does motorcoach service count?I know in Texas #94 McAllen only has motorcoach service.

No, I don't think so (by the "rules" of this thread), since by that standard, both LAS and PHX would then have service. (Both are served by Thruway buses.)

In fact, by that standard, we're only down to one state in the contiguous 48 states not served by Amtrak: SD, since four cities in WY are served by a Thruway bus route.

 

[tp49]

The population of an MSA is different from that of a city simply due to the fact that MSA's encompass a much larger area. MSA's are also different from what would be considered a city's "Metropolitan Area" because I can see right off the bat that Nassau-Suffolk is the #16 MSA. However, Nassau and Suffolk counties are most assuredly part of the New York City metropolitan area.

So if we're talking about actual incorporated cities then Phoenix, Columbus, Nashville, Louisville, Las Vegas are the first four that come to mind.

 

[jmbgeg]

The population of an MSA is different from that of a city simply due to the fact that MSA's encompass a much larger area. MSA's are also different from what would be considered a city's "Metropolitan Area" because I can see right off the bat that Nassau-Suffolk is the #16 MSA. However, Nassau and Suffolk counties are most assuredly part of the New York City metropolitan area.
So if we're talking about actual incorporated cities then Phoenix, Columbus, Nashville, Louisville, Las Vegas are the first four that come to mind.

OK, here is the cities list (as opposed to MSA's):

Rank City State Population

1 New York City New York

2 Los Angeles California

3 Chicago Illinois

4 Houston Texas

5 Phoenix Arizona

6 Philadelphia Pennsylvania

7 San Antonio Texas

8 Dallas Texas

9 San Diego California

10 San Jose California

11 Detroit Michigan

12 San Francisco California

13 Jacksonville Florida

14 Indianapolis e[›] Indiana

15 Austin Texas

16 Columbus Ohio

17 Fort Worth Texas

18 Charlotte North Carolina

19 Memphis Tennessee

20 Baltimore f[›] Maryland

21 El Paso Texas

22 Boston Massachusetts

23 Milwaukee Wisconsin

24 Denver Colorado

25 Seattle Washington

26 Nashville, Tennessee

27 Washington District of Columbia

28 Las Vegas Nevada

29 Portland Oregon

30 Louisville Kentucky

31 Oklahoma City Oklahoma

32 Tucson Arizona

33 Atlanta Georgia

34 Albuquerque New Mexico

35 Fresno California

36 Sacramento California

37 Long Beach California

38 Mesa Arizona

39 Kansas City Missouri

40 Omaha Nebraska

41 Cleveland Ohio

42 Virginia Beach Virginia

43 Miami Florida

44 Oakland California

45 Raleigh North Carolina

46 Tulsa Oklahoma

47 Minneapolis Minnesota

48 Colorado Springs Colorado

49 Honolulu Hawaii

50 Arlington Texas

51 Wichita Kansas

52 St. Louis Missouri

53 Tampa Florida

54 Santa Ana California

55 Anaheim California

56 Cincinnati Ohio

57 Bakersfield California

58 Aurora Colorado

59 New Orleans Louisiana

60 Pittsburgh Pennsylvania

61 Riverside California

62 Toledo Ohio

63 Stockton California

64 Corpus Christi Texas

65 Lexington Kentucky

66 St. Paul Minnesota

67 Anchorage Alaska

68 Newark New Jersey

69 Buffalo New York

70 Plano Texas

71 Henderson Nevada

72 Lincoln Nebraska

73 Fort Wayne Indiana

74 Glendale Arizona

75 Greensboro North Carolina

76 Chandler Arizona

77 St. Petersburg Florida

78 Jersey City New Jersey

79 Scottsdale Arizona

80 Norfolk Virginia

81 Madison Wisconsin

82 Orlando Florida

83 Birmingham Alabama

84 Baton Rouge Louisiana

85 Durham North Carolina

86 Laredo Texas

87 Lubbock Texas

88 Chesapeake Virginia

89 Chula Vista California

90 Garland Texas

91 Winston-Salem North Carolina

92 North Las Vegas Nevada

93 Reno Nevada

94 Gilbert Arizona

95 Hialeah Florida

96 Arlington Virginia

97 Akron Ohio

98 Irvine California

99 Rochester New York

100 Boise City Idaho

 

[Guest]

Allentown (Lehigh Valley), PA

Its the third largest in PA, and absolutely no rail service, Amtrak or other, for several decades.

They keep talking and talking and talking, and spending big bucks on study and after study after study, about either extending NJ Transit or extending SEPTA, but nothing ever comes of it.

What is really needed is a federally mandated trails-to-rails program to counter the over-funded rails-to-trails program.

 

[MrFSS]

And, my city, Lexington, KY, doesn't have any service, either. Louisville has bus service, I think.

The track from Cincinnati south, into Lexington and then south toward Knoxville and Chattanooga is in great shape and could handle Amtrak very well.

 

[Upstate]

These may not be huge cities, but they are decent sized:

Chattanooga, TN

Knoxville, TN

Kingsport/Bristol/Johnson City tri-city area, TN

Asheville, NC

Since buses don't count:

Baton Rouge, LA

 

[thomas]

Tulsa, Ok is a major city without Amtrak service......they have been promising service restoration for years.

 

[gregoryla]

I would think that Phoenix would be the largest American city without daily Amtrak service.

I think Houston would be the largest city without DAILY Amtrak service (unless you want to count Thruway). SL is 3 times a week.

 

[Bill Haithcoat]

San Francisco doesn't have Amtrak service, though it does have intercity passenger-rail service through Caltrain (although it's really more of a commuter-rail service). Of course, you can buy an Amtrak ticket from San Francisco and take a short bus ride across the Bay Bridge to Emeryville and catch an Amtrak LD (i.e., CZ or CS) or Capitol Corridor train there.

It is kind of a technicality saying SF does not have Amtrak service. The geography is what it is. Guess the railroads never felt it worthwhile to invest in an eight mile bridge track across the Bay.

Keep in mind it is an Amtrak owned and operated bus, it is not a Geyhound or anything. And a long distance passenger does buy a ticket with a stub just for for the Emeryville to SF portion of the trip. And that bus does not carry purely local passenges between EM and SF.

And certainly those trains are advertsised as serving SF.

The western terminus for trains from CHI and other has varied through the years and with the railroads before Amtrak. Santa Fe terminated in Richmond. Southern Pacific and Western Pacific (former west coast operator of the CZ) terminated in Oakland. There was a time when the passengers from the above two were transferred to the Oakland Mole and rode across the bay on a boat.

There was also a time when the Southern Pacific actually did operate both commuter trains and long distance trains from SF proper, SF itself, to LA. I guess that is Cal trans today. Such trains usually had a section originating in Oakland which, southbound, hooked up at San Jose with the train from SF proper to go to LA as one train.

 

[jphjaxfl]

San Francisco doesn't have Amtrak service, though it does have intercity passenger-rail service through Caltrain (although it's really more of a commuter-rail service). Of course, you can buy an Amtrak ticket from San Francisco and take a short bus ride across the Bay Bridge to Emeryville and catch an Amtrak LD (i.e., CZ or CS) or Capitol Corridor train there.

It is kind of a technicality saying SF does not have Amtrak service. The geography is what it is. Guess the railroads never felt it worthwhile to invest in an eight mile bridge track across the Bay.

Keep in mind it is an Amtrak owned and operated bus, it is not a Geyhound or anything. And a long distance passenger does buy a ticket with a stub just for for the Emeryville to SF portion of the trip. And that bus does not carry purely local passenges between EM and SF.

And certainly those trains are advertsised as serving SF.

The western terminus for trains from CHI and other has varied through the years and with the railroads before Amtrak. Santa Fe terminated in Richmond. Southern Pacific and Western Pacific (former west coast operator of the CZ) terminated in Oakland. There was a time when the passengers from the above two were transferred to the Oakland Mole and rode across the bay on a boat.

There was also a time when the Southern Pacific actually did operate both commuter trains and long distance trains from SF proper, SF itself, to LA. I guess that is Cal trans today. Such trains usually had a section originating in Oakland which, southbound, hooked up at San Jose with the train from SF proper to go to LA as one train.

I took the Coast Daylight from LA to San Francisco (3rd and Townsend) in August, 1970. At the time SP also operated the Del Monte from San Franisco to Monterey with Parlor Lounge car and coaches. Since Amtrak started with a through Seattle-San Diego train, that train was routed from San Jose through Oakland since San Francisco was the "end of the line".

 

[Bill Haithcoat]

And, my city, Lexington, KY, doesn't have any service, either. Louisville has bus service, I think.
The track from Cincinnati south, into Lexington and then south toward Knoxville and Chattanooga is in great shape and could handle Amtrak very well.

The lines to Knoxville and to Chattanooga are not the same. I am sure the Chattanooga line is in good shape, not sure about the Knoxviille.

The former L&N went Cincinnati,Paris, Richmond, Cobin, Knoxville, ATl, Florida points.

The former Southern went Cincinnati, Lexington,Danville,Somerset, Oakdale,Chattanooga, ATL, Fla points.

The former L&N did have passenger service in Lexington but it was more to Lousville,Evansville, St. Louis. This is distinct from the much better known L&N from Cincinnati,Louisville, Bowliing Green, etcetc

 

[jphjaxfl]

And, my city, Lexington, KY, doesn't have any service, either. Louisville has bus service, I think.
The track from Cincinnati south, into Lexington and then south toward Knoxville and Chattanooga is in great shape and could handle Amtrak very well.

The lines to Knoxville and to Chattanooga are not the same. I am sure the Chattanooga line is in good shape, not sure about the Knoxviille.

The former L&N went Cincinnati,Paris, Richmond, Cobin, Knoxville, ATl, Florida points.

The former Southern went Cincinnati, Lexington,Danville,Somerset, Oakdale,Chattanooga, ATL, Fla points.

The former L&N did have passenger service in Lexington but it was more to Lousville,Evansville, St. Louis. This is distinct from the much better known L&N from Cincinnati,Louisville, Bowliing Green, etcetc

The Carolina Special of the Southern operated from Cincinnati through Lexington, Knoxville to Asheville where it split with one section going to Greensboro and the other section to Charleston, SC. I think this train split off the Cincinnati-Chattanooga line at Oakdale. The train was later combied with the Ponce De Leon. The last L&N train through Lexington was a daylight local the originally went from Louisville through Lexington and eventually up one of the Eastern KY lines to Pikesville or Paintsville. This train was discontinued in the mid 1950s, but the C&O George Washington which has trackage rights on the L&N Lexington line continued through April 30, 1971. There was a time as late as 1969 when you could take the George Washington from Louisville to Lexington departing at 2:45 PM, change in Lexington the northbound Royal Palm to Cincinnati arriving Union Terminal at 8:45PM and take one of the two L&N trains back to Lousiville the next day.

 

[MrFSS]

... but the C&O George Washington which has trackage rights on the L&N Lexington line continued through April 30, 1971.

And that train is my avatar. I watched it go by near where we lived for many years.

 

[Bill Haithcoat]

And, my city, Lexington, KY, doesn't have any service, either. Louisville has bus service, I think.
The track from Cincinnati south, into Lexington and then south toward Knoxville and Chattanooga is in great shape and could handle Amtrak very well.

The lines to Knoxville and to Chattanooga are not the same. I am sure the Chattanooga line is in good shape, not sure about the Knoxviille.

The former L&N went Cincinnati,Paris, Richmond, Cobin, Knoxville, ATl, Florida points.

The former Southern went Cincinnati, Lexington,Danville,Somerset, Oakdale,Chattanooga, ATL, Fla points.

The former L&N did have passenger service in Lexington but it was more to Lousville,Evansville, St. Louis. This is distinct from the much better known L&N from Cincinnati,Louisville, Bowliing Green, etcetc

The Carolina Special of the Southern operated from Cincinnati through Lexington, Knoxville to Asheville where it split with one section going to Greensboro and the other section to Charleston, SC. I think this train split off the Cincinnati-Chattanooga line at Oakdale. The train was later combied with the Ponce De Leon. The last L&N train through Lexington was a daylight local the originally went from Louisville through Lexington and eventually up one of the Eastern KY lines to Pikesville or Paintsville. This train was discontinued in the mid 1950s, but the C&O George Washington which has trackage rights on the L&N Lexington line continued through April 30, 1971. There was a time as late as 1969 when you could take the George Washington from Louisville to Lexington departing at 2:45 PM, change in Lexington the northbound Royal Palm to Cincinnati arriving Union Terminal at 8:45PM and take one of the two L&N trains back to Lousiville the next day.

That is right, I had forgotten about the Carolina Special. It did split at Oakdale, so yes, you could indeed go to Knoxville via Southern.Which is probably what MrFs meant. I, being a Chattanoogan, thought more in terms of trains on to Atlanta.

And, of course, the Flamingo going by my dorm room twice each night at Stadium Hall, University of Tennessee, Knoxville, is a favored memory.

And yet, sometimes I would ride the Carolina Special from Knoxville to Asheville and back for a short day

trip.

Sorry I forgot about that, Tom.

 

[DET63]

I would think that Phoenix would be the largest American city without daily Amtrak service.

I think Houston would be the largest city without DAILY Amtrak service (unless you want to count Thruway). SL is 3 times a week.

I had forgotten that Houston receives much less Amtrak service than does New Orleans, a much smaller city.

 

[alanh]

Maricopa (MRC) is technically in the Phoenix/Mesa MSA, but it's pretty far out of town -- 35 miles from downtown Phoenix.

 

[Bill Haithcoat]

San Francisco doesn't have Amtrak service, though it does have intercity passenger-rail service through Caltrain (although it's really more of a commuter-rail service). Of course, you can buy an Amtrak ticket from San Francisco and take a short bus ride across the Bay Bridge to Emeryville and catch an Amtrak LD (i.e., CZ or CS) or Capitol Corridor train there.

It is kind of a technicality saying SF does not have Amtrak service. The geography is what it is. Guess the railroads never felt it worthwhile to invest in an eight mile bridge track across the Bay.

Keep in mind it is an Amtrak owned and operated bus, it is not a Geyhound or anything. And a long distance passenger does buy a ticket with a stub just for for the Emeryville to SF portion of the trip. And that bus does not carry purely local passenges between EM and SF.

And certainly those trains are advertsised as serving SF.

The western terminus for trains from CHI and other has varied through the years and with the railroads before Amtrak. Santa Fe terminated in Richmond. Southern Pacific and Western Pacific (former west coast operator of the CZ) terminated in Oakland. There was a time when the passengers from the above two were transferred to the Oakland Mole and rode across the bay on a boat.

There was also a time when the Southern Pacific actually did operate both commuter trains and long distance trains from SF proper, SF itself, to LA. I guess that is Cal trans today. Such trains usually had a section originating in Oakland which, southbound, hooked up at San Jose with the train from SF proper to go to LA as one train.

I took the Coast Daylight from LA to San Francisco (3rd and Townsend) in August, 1970. At the time SP also operated the Del Monte from San Franisco to Monterey with Parlor Lounge car and coaches. Since Amtrak started with a through Seattle-San Diego train, that train was routed from San Jose through Oakland since San Francisco was the "end of the line".

More fond memories. I took the same trip but in the opposite direction in the mid 60's. My space was a parlor car seat in a round end observation car..Such neat equipment.

 

[TampAGS]

San Francisco doesn't have Amtrak service, though it does have intercity passenger-rail service through Caltrain (although it's really more of a commuter-rail service). Of course, you can buy an Amtrak ticket from San Francisco and take a short bus ride across the Bay Bridge to Emeryville and catch an Amtrak LD (i.e., CZ or CS) or Capitol Corridor train there.

It is kind of a technicality saying SF does not have Amtrak service. The geography is what it is. Guess the railroads never felt it worthwhile to invest in an eight mile bridge track across the Bay.

The same can not be said for the Bay around Tampa. The geography allowed for rail service on both sides of the Bay, and where a bridge was required, it extended only about 1/2 mile in length.

 

Nevertheless, St. Petersburg, once the proud terminus for several pre-Amtrak trains, and Florida's fourth-largest city (bigger than Orlando) has since 1984 been without rail service, left to rely only on motorcoaches. Its neighbor to the immediate north, Clearwater, is also a sizeable city that used to enjoy Amtrak service. St. Petersburg, Clearwater, and several other cities give Pinellas County the highest population density of any county in Florida, again without rail of any kind.

Other population centers in the 4th largest state which have no passenger rail:

Ft. Myers-Cape Coral

Sarasota-Bradenton

Port St. Lucie

Gainesville

Daytona Beach

 

And since 2005...

Tallahassee

Pensacola



Some of these have Thruway Motorcoach (in Daytona Beach's case, it is only a taxi).

 

Outside the Sunshine State, Roanoke, VA strikes me as a city with significant rail heritage and infrastructure, yet no Amtrak or other passenger service.