Long Distance trains and Stations will be cut

[Save Our Trains Michigan]

As of right now people are riding the Long distance Amtrak trains to see which ones will be cut off,They are also going around to Amtrak stations to see which ones they can unstaff.

People now is the time not to argue but start making your calls to the proper people in congress Amtrak is on it's last leg as of right now.

The Long Distance trains will come off 1 by 1 also Stations will be unstaffed 1 by 1.

 

[amtrak_flyer]

Details?

 

[x-press]

Source?

 

[Save Our Trains Michigan]

I can't tell where i have gotten this information the details are posted Amtrak will have to justify the trains and the stations.

But what you people don't seem to understand is the 1 word in this whole thing the trains have to make a profit and there is no such thing. Which leads to the part of pulling the trains off.

 

[trainboy325]

I believe BNSF1088's comments are more about spending more effort and time getting members of Congress aware of the "real" serious nature regarding the future of long distance trains. Since Congress has been through the whole issue of "another year Amtrak is going bankrupted" stories in the media and by the same old rail support organizations like NARP, members of Congress need to hear it from individuals that care about trains and explain that the situation within the company (Board of Directors, managers, etc.) are on a fast track to kill the company because of the Bush Administration passenger rail policy (or lack of one, depending on your own view of the situation). The reality is that trains are in jeopardy and those who question that fact must be from Neverland. <_<

 

[x-press]

I rely on factual (albeit biased) sources, such as NARP for my Amtrak information. If that means I'm from "Neverland," just call me the "Cat with a Grin."

If we don't rely on FACTS, than we're no better than Vranich, Cox, and the Bush administration. I have no problem acknowledging Amtrak long distance service is in jeopardy. I support them with my NARP membership and my wallet. That's two more things than most supposed "railfans" do. Constantly accusing me of being in denial doesn't make it so.

I guess we need extremists and zealots on both sides to balance each other out, so bless the folks who jump on every unfounded rumor out there. I just won't be a part of it.

JPS

 

[Save Our Trains Michigan]

I rely on factual (albeit biased) sources, such as NARP for my Amtrak information. If that means I'm from "Neverland," just call me the "Cat with a Grin."
If we don't rely on FACTS, than we're no better than Vranich, Cox, and the Bush administration. I have no problem acknowledging Amtrak long distance service is in jeopardy. I support them with my NARP membership and my wallet. That's two more things than most supposed "railfans" do. Constantly accusing me of being in denial doesn't make it so.

I guess we need extremists and zealots on both sides to balance each other out, so bless the folks who jump on every unfounded rumor out there. I just won't be a part of it.

JPS

What i am telling you is not a rumor if you want to sit here and argue with evreything you just wait and see what happens to Amtrak.

What i don't understand is if you support Amtrak then you would use the information given to you and start doing the right thing by calling your elected officials before it is to late.

I take what i do very seriously and only post correct information NOT Rumors.

You want the facts the Long Distance trains will come off 1 by 1 and the Stations on the entire Amtrak System will be unstaffed or could even just close up.

 

[MrFSS]

You want the facts the Long Distance trains will come off 1 by 1 and the Stations on the entire Amtrak System will be unstaffed or could even just close up.

When is all this suppose to happen? Are there exact dates?

 

[Save Our Trains Michigan]

You want the facts the Long Distance trains will come off 1 by 1 and the Stations on the entire Amtrak System will be unstaffed or could even just close up.

When is all this suppose to happen? Are there exact dates?

That's the problem there are no dates this could happen overnight like the food service did.

That's why we need to keep contacting congress to make sure it doesn't happen that way.

And what i mean by overnight is they will already have a list made and will start putting out notices at the proper places.

Then it will be to late to try to save the trains and the stations.

 

[Guest]

BNSF: I guess what some people are objecting to are your unsubstatiated comments and no reference to actual documents, notices, memos, etc. One of the real issues with inundating congress with letters about Amtrak is the "Cry Wolf" syndrome. We can all write the congress until we are blue in the face with nice letters about the need for passenger rail service in this country, but to send them letters about the demise of random long distance trains and random stations without facts is a waste of time. Those letters will wind up in the circular file without a response.

If you have a list of targeted trains and stations, please share them with everyone - then we will know which is first on the "one-by-one" list.

 

[Save Our Trains Michigan]

BNSF: I guess what some people are objecting to are your unsubstatiated comments and no reference to actual documents, notices, memos, etc. One of the real issues with inundating congress with letters about Amtrak is the "Cry Wolf" syndrome. We can all write the congress until we are blue in the face with nice letters about the need for passenger rail service in this country, but to send them letters about the demise of random long distance trains and random stations without facts is a waste of time. Those letters will wind up in the circular file without a response.
If you have a list of targeted trains and stations, please share them with everyone - then we will know which is first on the "one-by-one" list.

The list includes all Staffed Amtrak stations and all Long distance trains there is no safe station or train.

And this stuff is being done as i type this info on this board that's the real prob.

 

[x-press]

What i am telling you is not a rumor if you want to sit here and argue with evreything you just wait and see what happens to Amtrak.

What i don't understand is if you support Amtrak then you would use the information given to you and start doing the right thing by calling your elected officials before it is to late.

I take what i do very seriously and only post correct information NOT Rumors.

You want the facts the Long Distance trains will come off 1 by 1 and the Stations on the entire Amtrak System will be unstaffed or could even just close up.

Calling/writing my elected officials is a complete waste of time. Not because they don't care, but because I'd be "preaching to the choir." I am in Baltimore, MD. If my left-wing Senators and Representatives had their way, Amtrak would probably have gold-plated wheels. If I lived in Mccain's district in AZ, rest assured I would write to him.

It's a shame we have such extremists on both sides of the Amtrak political debate. There's probably a reasonable course of action for Amtrak out there that A) restrains costs, B improves timeliness, C) defines ld trains' mission. I don't think we'll see it any time soon with the left-wing OR right-wing clowns we have in office now.

JPS

 

[saxman]

No ones taking my trains! Not while I'm around at least.

This should definately raise a red flag to everyone on this forum. Yet there is more you can do to help out, besides calling your reps. Go to NARP's website, print out a bunch of "Action Alert" flyers and take them to your local station. I'm sure the staff would post up the flyers. Maybe even go during train time and hand them out to the passengers waiting. (i'd ask the station staff first). Next train ride your on, ask the conductor if you can put a stack in the lounge cafe car. Or even hand some out. Most people may not even care or listen but I bet some would. 100 people calling or writing once is probably better than me calling 100 times. I also am planning on asking my parents and grandparents to write or call. (especially since my grandparents are very conservative republicans) They really enjoy riding the long distance trains with me.

I've been toying with the idea of writing a letter to the editor of my local and school paper. I know lots of students at my college are frequent riders of the Empire Builder. Many are probably oblivious to whats happening right now. Yet I'm sure it will get the word out.

It's obvious polls and record ridership have shown strong support for Amtrak. Yet our gov't seems to be stuck in their own ways. I'm not letting my gov't shut down something that has the potential to become a vital component in our country. I sure hope you won't either.

Chris

note: NARP region meetings are coming up! Sure wish I could go to Chicago for mine, but I don't have the time or money this weekend. Otherwise I'd be there in a second.

 

[Amtrak OBS Gone Freight]

If you have a list of targeted trains and stations, please share them with everyone - then we will know which is first on the "one-by-one" list.

He already has in other threads!!! OBS...

 

[Amtrak OBS Gone Freight]

What i am telling you is not a rumor if you want to sit here and argue with evreything you just wait and see what happens to Amtrak.

What i don't understand is if you support Amtrak then you would use the information given to you and start doing the right thing by calling your elected officials before it is to late.

I take what i do very seriously and only post correct information NOT Rumors.

You want the facts the Long Distance trains will come off 1 by 1 and the Stations on the entire Amtrak System will be unstaffed or could even just close up.

What I don't understand is how those of you here don't seem to get the "BIG PICTURE!" I and one of my co-workers amongst several other employees are posting here on this board! Trainboy325 and I have very good sources of information available to us! We know where/who to go to, and combine that with our background experience can draw a mostly accurate conclusion! Well, how in the heck is this man's stuff in line with what I and my cohorts post to you folks? He obviously has an inside source.

Yes the facts are, it is too late to save Amtrak as we know it. But if we do not act accordingly, we will not have any type of passenger rail except some commuter lines, period!

Like BNSF_1088 I post only facts, and if any kind of information is rumor I specify "it" as so! If some of you folks don't want to believe us, then so be it. You will when you see it, and no one should say "we didn't tell you so!" The current form of passenger rail must be changed if passenger rail in general is to make it in the coming years! And I am speaking of the business structure as well as the infrastructure among the many varibles which exist to operate it! I am in the process now of looking for new employment. I am sticking it out at Amtrak for as long as I am allowed to stay on the payroll. But when I recieve that furlough letter, then I know it is over (for me at least), maybe temporarily, most likely permanently. I don't wanna go, but the government wants it this way! My local leaders know how I feel! I hope passenger rail will be a part of my future! We shall see! OBS...

 

[PRR 60]

With no cited authoritative source and no separate collaboration from any other individual, group or media organization, I am not sure how anyone can take this information as being anything other than simply propagation of unfounded rumors and corporate gossip. This is classic hearsay (“I heard from someone that someone said”) and there is good reason that hearsay is not admissible testimony in court: it is notoriously unreliable.

Here are some facts. At this time, not one train has been selected for cancellation. Not one presently staffed station has been selected to go un-staffed. By law, any cancellation of a train that results in complete discontinuance of service to any city must be made with 180 days notice. Absent any such notice (and no notifications have been made), and given that most long distance trains serve single-train stations, there cannot be any LD train cancellations until at least six months from today. That six-month period is designed to provide time to find funding remedies to permit the service to continue. So the implied message that Amtrak can cancel trains in an almost secret manner in the dark of the night is totally false. Add to that the wild claim that all stations may be un-staffed, and “all” includes New York, Philadelphia, Washington, etc., and the overall message is reduced to a farce.

To simply broadcast and propagate unfounded rumors greatly diminishes the impact of any message advocating a position. Imagine calling or writing a legislator and saying that you heard from a source on the internet that some other source who cannot be identified says some unknown trains may be cancelled. Gee, there is a powerful claim. Do that enough times, and you will soon get labeled as a zealot and ignored.

I, for one, will wait until I have real facts before I jump off the deep end. I will wait for Amtrak to post train cancellations publicly, as required by law, and then will decide if the cancellations are worth worrying about or not. Those who really support Amtrak and who do not want to come off as wild-eyed almost cult-like kooks would be well advised to do the same.

 

[MrFSS]

With no cited authoritative source and no separate collaboration from any other individual, group or media organization, I am not sure how anyone can take this information as being anything other than simply propagation of unfounded rumors and corporate gossip. This is classic hearsay (“I heard from someone that someone said”) and there is good reason that hearsay is not admissible testimony in court: it is notoriously unreliable. 

Here are some facts. At this time, not one train has been selected for cancellation. Not one presently staffed station has been selected to go un-staffed. By law, any cancellation of a train that results in complete discontinuance of service to any city must be made with 180 days notice. Absent any such notice (and no notifications have been made), and given that most long distance trains serve single-train stations, there cannot be any LD train cancellations until at least six months from today. That six-month period is designed to provide time to find funding remedies to permit the service to continue. So the implied message that Amtrak can cancel trains in an almost secret manner in the dark of the night is totally false. Add to that the wild claim that all stations may be un-staffed, and “all” includes New York, Philadelphia, Washington, etc., and the overall message is reduced to a farce.

To simply broadcast and propagate unfounded rumors greatly diminishes the impact of any message advocating a position. Imagine calling or writing a legislator and saying that you heard from a source on the internet that some other source who cannot be identified says some unknown trains may be cancelled. Gee, there is a powerful claim. Do that enough times, and you will soon get labeled as a zealot and ignored.

I, for one, will wait until I have real facts before I jump off the deep end. I will wait for Amtrak to post train cancellations publicly, as required by law, and then will decide if the cancellations are worth worrying about or not. Those who really support Amtrak and who do not want to come off as wild-eyed almost cult-like kooks would be well advised to do the same.

Well put - I agree completely.

 

[Save Our Trains Michigan]

With no cited authoritative source and no separate collaboration from any other individual, group or media organization, I am not sure how anyone can take this information as being anything other than simply propagation of unfounded rumors and corporate gossip. This is classic hearsay (“I heard from someone that someone said”) and there is good reason that hearsay is not admissible testimony in court: it is notoriously unreliable.
Here are some facts. At this time, not one train has been selected for cancellation. Not one presently staffed station has been selected to go un-staffed. By law, any cancellation of a train that results in complete discontinuance of service to any city must be made with 180 days notice. Absent any such notice (and no notifications have been made), and given that most long distance trains serve single-train stations, there cannot be any LD train cancellations until at least six months from today. That six-month period is designed to provide time to find funding remedies to permit the service to continue. So the implied message that Amtrak can cancel trains in an almost secret manner in the dark of the night is totally false. Add to that the wild claim that all stations may be un-staffed, and “all” includes New York, Philadelphia, Washington, etc., and the overall message is reduced to a farce.

To simply broadcast and propagate unfounded rumors greatly diminishes the impact of any message advocating a position. Imagine calling or writing a legislator and saying that you heard from a source on the internet that some other source who cannot be identified says some unknown trains may be cancelled. Gee, there is a powerful claim. Do that enough times, and you will soon get labeled as a zealot and ignored.

I, for one, will wait until I have real facts before I jump off the deep end. I will wait for Amtrak to post train cancellations publicly, as required by law, and then will decide if the cancellations are worth worrying about or not. Those who really support Amtrak and who do not want to come off as wild-eyed almost cult-like kooks would be well advised to do the same.

If you want to wait until the notices come out then your to late to save the trains.

 

[Save Our Trains Michigan]

I really don't think you people are seeing the big picture the Long Distance trains and Stations are getting reviewed right now so they can put out the proper notices.

If you wait until the notices come out you can kiss the trains and stations good bye because it will be to late to save them at that point in time.

We need to stop the process right now before it goes to the next step.

 

[x-press]

Imagine calling or writing a legislator and saying that you heard from a source on the internet that some other source who cannot be identified says some unknown trains may be cancelled.

I'm starting to get the feeling that many people do just that.

Those accusing others of not getting the "big picture" ad nauseum, are missing a "big picture" of their own. NARP works 24-7 to preserve the national network. These are professionals, who have FORGOTTEN more about the "big picture" in Washington than most of us will EVER know. I dare say they have sources in Amtrak as well. Am I saying they can stop what may be inevitable (as I'm sure someone will accuse me of)? Of course not. I am saying that nothing is going to "sneak" by them. When NARP calls me to action, to a cause I agree with, off I go. Until then, the idea of contacting congress in the manner Mr. PRR60 describes is absurd.

Contacting your reps/senators to re-iterate your general support for a national network may be worthwhile, especially if your's are either anti-Amtrak or "on-the-fence."

JPS

 

[jphjaxfl]

I agree with PRR60. The reason there is a 180 day advance notice of any discontinuance of service is so that there can possibily be hearings to discuss loss of rail service to the communities involved. Some of the post of this board seem to create more "hysteria" than develop ways to save the long distance trains. I can tell you with 2006 being an election year for all Congressional representatives and 1/3 of the Senators that none of these elected officials would want rail passenger service to their their district or state discontinued without the proper notice. If trains were discontinued as some of this board are stating, there would be some serious litigation taking place. I state this as someone who has discussed the future of Amtrak with some Congessional Representatives and two Senators who are very supportive of Amtrak.

 

[Save Our Trains Michigan]

I know how hard it is to keep trains on and running i have 2 trains in Michigan that will get cut off on August 10th 2006 because of a shortfall of $1 million i have been fighting along with anther group to get a Bill drawn up to get the $1 million put back in.

And to this date nothing has been done and people are putting a lot of pressure on the Legislatures in Michigan.

The point im trying to make is you can't wait till the last minute like when the 180 notices come out.

We have to act on the LD trains and Stations now not when the 180 day notices come out.

 

[AmtrakFan]

Folks,

This is not a joke this needs to be a wake up call for everyone next thing we know LD Trains will be gone. The end is near for LD Trains and maybe Amtrak Entirley.

 

[Windy City LSA]

With no cited authoritative source and no separate collaboration from any other individual, group or media organization, I am not sure how anyone can take this information as being anything other than simply propagation of unfounded rumors and corporate gossip.  This is classic hearsay (“I heard from someone that someone said”) and there is good reason that hearsay is not admissible testimony in court: it is notoriously unreliable.  
Here are some facts.  At this time, not one train has been selected for cancellation.  Not one presently staffed station has been selected to go un-staffed.  By law, any cancellation of a train that results in complete discontinuance of service to any city must be made with 180 days notice.  Absent any such notice (and no notifications have been made), and given that most long distance trains serve single-train stations, there cannot be any LD train cancellations until at least six months from today.  That six-month period is designed to provide time to find funding remedies to permit the service to continue.  So the implied message that Amtrak can cancel trains in an almost secret manner in the dark of the night is totally false.  Add to that the wild claim that all stations may be un-staffed, and “all” includes New York, Philadelphia, Washington, etc., and the overall message is reduced to a farce.

To simply broadcast and propagate unfounded rumors greatly diminishes the impact of any message advocating a position.  Imagine calling or writing a legislator and saying that you heard from a source on the internet that some other source who cannot be identified says some unknown trains may be cancelled.  Gee, there is a powerful claim.  Do that enough times, and you will soon get labeled as a zealot and ignored.

I, for one, will wait until I have real facts before I jump off the deep end.  I will wait for Amtrak to post train cancellations publicly, as required by law, and then will decide if the cancellations are worth worrying about or not.  Those who really support Amtrak and who do not want to come off as wild-eyed almost cult-like kooks would be well advised to do the same.

Although it may be an unpopular opinion here, I must say I like what PRR 60 had to say. Very well expressed. Particularily the part about contacting legislators stating that you obtained information from the Internet via somebody who told somebody. Doesn't sound too credible, although in their correspondence, one could leave out the part about the so-called source.

Some of you already know that I'm a short-time OBS employee currently on furlough. What I read here concerning foodservice in particular is scaring the bejezus out of me! If all I read here concerning the reduction of foodservice cars on the long hauls trains is true, I will not be recalled in 1-2 months as originally told. My short-lived career with Amtrak will be over. I have next to no senority. Nobody told me this. Seems like common sense to me. I do appreciate the information I receive here, however I can't possibly believe it 100%. Why?? Something I have learned and heard from co-workers along the way is that this comany is a non-stop rumor mill. Constant condradictions are common too, apparently. I am a victim of one, having been told how badly they needed us while in training to being furloughed 2 months later. Sure, it may be the "slow" season, but they knew that was right around the corner as I sat in training in November!!! I have never seen anything like this, although this is the largest company I have worked for. Needless to say, I'm feverishly looking for a new job as we speak. This whole thing is making me nuts. I'm the type of person who appreciates solid, reliable information. Amtrak is incapeable of that.

Well, that's my 2 cents. To summarize, I appreciate the info provided here, however I can fully understand the skepticism.

 

[trainboy325]

It's obvious at this point that people have their own opinion on how to manage personal time and resources to "save" passenger rail. I agree and understand BNSF 1088 about your warning and know the same "source" you are using for this warning of specific train and station cuts of this particular forum thread due to having common sources, but without giving everyone the details or reasons behind your call to get everyone to contact their legislative representatives does weaken the case this this particular situation.

In the defense of those who have disagreements due to the lack of providing any specific source or "internal Amtrak information" that you may have citing for the purpose of giving a waring to those on this forum does weaken your position to those who don't think a danger exists at this time.

For those who wait for notices from organizations like NARP, URPA, etc. does provide solid reasons and specific facts to contact their legislators about, but due to the time it takes organizations to collect the "facts" and have public outcry due to newly public information, the time to save a trains or service is almost non-existance due to the slow nature of the Washington, DC political machine. In the case of NARP, I am a member and do receive the updates, news letters, etc. that organization uses to inform the membership of issues in Amtrak operations. However, being an Amtrak employee and living Amtrak everyday like those at NARP, I can attest that the "facts" that NARP has used for their updates are and have been severely weakened by an Amtrak corporate machine that has literally gone underground. I do have respect for NARP and others who are working daily to keep watch on Amtrak, but we must all remember that some things that I, and others who have inside information, are bound to confidentiality due to the nature of our jobs and the rules that define our rights and responsibilities as railroad employees. This is in the very nature of providing "inside information" to a group of people who are bound to take action based on hard evidence and not hearsay, just like a jury. I can cite hundred of examples of organizations that were watched daily by media and political action committees that were able to do things completely under the table and no one knew the truth except those inside the board room. Anyone remember Enron? Big company, thousands of employees, millions of shareholders and lots of media coverage. No one but the Board of Directors knew the truth and it all came out in one morning and it was over by lunch the same day.

All I will say is this: I understand and know the reasons for your call to arms BNSF 1088. But you have to remember if you decide to make a post, you have to back up your data. In my personal case, I try to back every comment I make with either facts or historical data that give a sense of credibility to my remarks. In some cases, I can't name my specific source but I try to use something else to back up my newly learned facts. Your leadership in various Amtrak advocacy groups will give you access to things that you ultimately have to keep to yourself to protect the source of information, but as you've seen here with this dissention by various members of this forum, without making or taking the risk of opening up a can of worms, the overall goal of preserving Amtrak and long distance trains by railfans and passengers alike will be weakened from within. This is extremely dangerous as the pro-Amtrak and long distance train advocates in this country are minute at best. <_<