Looking for input on an idea

[amtrak fan]

What if Amtrak were to add a second class service to their long distance trains using the new chairs like international flights have now that can recline to 180 degrees and were layed out in a 2-1 arrangment, all reserved seats. The cost would be about somewhere around halfway between a standard room and a coach seat, slightly more for a seat on the single row. Would you buy a ticket in second class?

 

[AlanB]

Nope. It's a bedroom or bust for me.

 

[battalion51]

You'd definitely get more solo travellers or people getting off in the middle of the night to use it. I think it'd be a worthy experiment on a train like the Meteor or Palmetto. I would include some sort of meal service like Acela meals for passengers.

 

[gswager]

Yes! I'm a solo traveler. My grandpa who's WWII veteran told me story about it. He rode from the west coast to east coast to get on a ship to Europe and came back after the war ended.

 

[haolerider]

I don't think this would work and it would be hard to market. The reason those beds work on the long haul airlines is that you are going from point A to point B with no stops. You are in First Class and you are being pampered. With rail travel, the train stops in so many different locations at night and it would require people coming in and out of the car with these special beds - defeating the purpose of a relaxing night's sleep.

Now if you want to go back to the original Pullman idea and have stacks of beds, behind curtains, maybe that would work, but I don't think that is on the horizon either.

 

[swamp]

I dont know the ages of people on this forum, but I am probably one of the few who traveled in the Pullman sleepers. When I was 5 and 6 years old--mid 1940's, I traveled coast to coast twice with my parents. The sleepers were fun and exciting for a child. The only down side I remember was the loud snoring throughout the car as curtains are not good sound bafflers. Nostalgia says to bring them back, but reality says private bedrooms are better.

The full reclining chair is a good idea, but depends on the cost. If too close to a bedroom, people will choose bedrooms instead--especially with meals.

Well 2 wks from today for my big trip on Amtrak

 

[GG-1]

Aloha,

Think I would always choose a room for over night, but on my next trip between LAX and EMY, which is susposed to be 12.5 hrs I would consider a inbetween seat. The trip has me in sleepers for the second two legs on 6 & 59. I just didn't think the extra sleeper cost would be worth it including meals, but after reading some of the other post I may consider an on board upgrade, as I expect lunch and dinner to cost 30-35 dollars. I don't drink and the diet say's no desert.

 

[battalion51]

What I would do to set up a fare structure for the "Custom Class" is basically take the sleeper fare and knock it down to 45% of the standard sleeper fare. That way it's definitely less expensive than the sleeper, and for two people it's still less than a sleeper is, but you still get some of the perks, meals, a little more privacy, working TV's, more personalized service, etc.

As far as the car design itself goes (Viewliner desing) what I think would be cool is if on the A end (side without the vestibule) you have the food preperation/attendants area, and on the B end have large multilevel baggage racks similar to a Superliner downstairs. Now, rather than having overhead luggage racks, have nothing up there (similar to a Dining car) and leave the car completely open up top allowing for an open airy feeling. One thing that would have to be done though is to have automated blinds up top that the passenger can close by day, but is automatically closed by night when the attendant switches the car to night mode.

 

[AlanB]

What I would do to set up a fare structure for the "Custom Class" is basically take the sleeper fare and knock it down to 45% of the standard sleeper fare. That way it's definitely less expensive than the sleeper, and for two people it's still less than a sleeper is, but you still get some of the perks, meals, a little more privacy, working TV's, more personalized service, etc.

It might be less expensive than a sleeper at 45% off for one person, but for two it hardly makes a difference.

For example, lets say that it costs $300 for a standard sleeper from NYP to MIA. At 45% of 300, one way fare for one person would be $135. For two people, the combined total is now $270. You can still put two people into the standard sleeper for that $300, so taking the private seats would only save 30 bucks.

For a difference of only 30 bucks, I can't imagine most people not wanting to have a whole room to themselves with a full bed. Now as the price of the sleeper climbs, the difference does get greater, but most standard sleepers generally run around 3 to 4 hundred bucks.

Yes this works fine for a single traveler, but I'm not so sure that it makes sense for anyone other than a solo traveler.

 

[battalion51]

Alan, I don't think this service would really be intended for two people travelling end point to end point. Obviously for a $30 difference it only makes sense to get the room, but that was just a rough figure I was coming up with. Obviously the service will get more use by solo travellers, and people doing short trips, but it's sort of intended to be that way.

 

[AlanB]

Alan, I don't think this service would really be intended for two people travelling end point to end point. Obviously for a $30 difference it only makes sense to get the room, but that was just a rough figure I was coming up with. Obviously the service will get more use by solo travellers, and people doing short trips, but it's sort of intended to be that way.

Well I was only responding to your original post, which said:

What I would do to set up a fare structure for the "Custom Class" is basically take the sleeper fare and knock it down to 45% of the standard sleeper fare. That way it's definitely less expensive than the sleeper, and for two people it's still less than a sleeper is, but you still get some of the perks, meals, a little more privacy, working TV's, more personalized service, etc.

But again I do agree this if Amtrak were to market this idea, it would more than likely have to be aimed at single travelers.

 

[battalion51]

I originally had a 40% put in, but thought about the costs associated with the service and decided 45% was a little more reasonable for Amtrak to be able to sustain costs with the service. For example, the service at 45% would cost 48.15 for one person between Orlando and New Orleans or $42.80 at 40% if you use the D Bucket. But if you use the S Bucket between the same two points it's 115.20 at 45% or 102.40 at 40%. Now for the Customer the difference is going to pretty much be negligble to them, since they're willing to pay for the service. It's also entirely possible that the sleepers will be using a higher bucket than Custom Class will since sleepers tend to sell out faster, thus making Custom Class more attractive as departure date gets closer.

 

[jccollins]

Sounds good to me. I can sleep well in a fully-reclining recliner. Amtrak coach seats are a bit tough to sleep at all in. I just rode LAX-Flagstaff overnight in coach and was exhausted when I woke up in the morning. Needless to say I didn't get much sleep. I'm going back to LA this Tuesday night. Where is the second class recliners? Aaaahhhh! B)

 

[denmarks]

If you will look at my posting "Sleepers are a Bargain" you will see that after meals the standard sleeper is only about $16.67 per person per day. The reclining coach is a good idea but if meals were included the net cost of the reclining coach would free.

It would be like giving the better seat to any passenger that would eat all meals in the diner.

 

[amtrakmichigan]

First of all I am like Alan, sleeper or bust for an overnight trip and sometimes depending on the price I will ride in a sleeper during the day. However this is an issue that has to be looked at with our personell prefrences set aside and look at it in the the eyes of a true business man.

On almost all Amtrak trains their is only two types of classes, coach and 1st. There is a huge gap between these two classes that Amtrak should look into filling up. Sometimes there is only one class...coach. This I guess could be compared with other types of business. If Amtrak were a restaurant they would offer McDonalds on one end, and Charlie Trotters (5 star) on the other end, and nothing in between. Another example could be hotels such as Motel 6 and Four Seasons, with nothing offered in between such as a Holiday Inn. The Car Companies such as Ford Motor learned this lesson 70 years ago. At that time you could buy a Model T or a Lincoln. This is why we now have Mercury in between the two brands. GM has their other divisions to fill the "second class" gap too, such as Buick and Pontiac.

Amtrak needs to learn that anything that a customer purchases over a coach seat is almost pure profit for them. If someone pays another $40 to sit in a "second class" seat from CHI to MSP for an example and gives them $10 in food and drink in return, then that's still $30 more then that passenger probably WOULDN"T have spent. You multiply that by numerous passengers per day by days per week, then by weeks per year then by the number of trains your offering this service...and that equils quite a bit of money !

Yes this is A great idea that Amtrak needs to look into further !

 

[battalion51]

If you will look at my posting "Sleepers are a Bargain" you will see that after meals the standard sleeper is only about $16.67 per person per day. The reclining coach is a good idea but if meals were included the net cost of the reclining coach would free.
It would be like giving the better seat to any passenger that would eat all meals in the diner.

There's a difference though. I didn't say to give them Diner meals, I said Acela style meals, which are significantly cheaper for Amtrak to buy, and wouldn't be sold to the public in this case since there's a full service diner. If the passenger wants the Diner meal they could pay an additonal $5-10 upcharge for the Diner meal. Obviously that'd be more popular at Dinner than Breakfast or Lunch.

 

[Guest]

There's a difference though. I didn't say to give them Diner meals, I said Acela style meals, which are significantly cheaper for Amtrak to buy, and wouldn't be sold to the public in this case since there's a full service diner. If the passenger wants the Diner meal they could pay an additonal $5-10 upcharge for the Diner meal.

This upcharge should be available for regular sleeping car passengers, too. Not every sleeping car passenger wants to eat three full meals a day in the dining car. As an occasional sleeping car passenger, I would love the opportunity to save on the fare of a bedroom by not having to pay for meals I don't want.

 

[Gavin]

Hey

I would defiantly pay extra for a 180 degree reclining seat. Mabey $50 dollars extra than coach per night and day.

Having travelled in a 180 degree seat on british airways using airmiles, it is pretty comfortable

In CHRIST,

Gavin

John 3:16----Believe

 

[Bill Haithcoat]

Then of course there were the slumbercoaches, of not too long ago(well , how long ago depends upon your perspective). That was a smaller room of cheaper furnishings but at considerably cheaper price. They were popular in some quarters.

Of course they did have real beds, which is sort of counter to the original question, I guess. Meals were not included. But they really were quite cheaper than a sleeper.

 

[jccollins]

If you will look at my posting "Sleepers are a Bargain" you will see that after meals the standard sleeper is only about $16.67 per person per day. The reclining coach is a good idea but if meals were included the net cost of the reclining coach would free.
It would be like giving the better seat to any passenger that would eat all meals in the diner.

There's a difference though. I didn't say to give them Diner meals, I said Acela style meals, which are significantly cheaper for Amtrak to buy, and wouldn't be sold to the public in this case since there's a full service diner. If the passenger wants the Diner meal they could pay an additonal $5-10 upcharge for the Diner meal. Obviously that'd be more popular at Dinner than Breakfast or Lunch.

Just make it easy and give all the 2nd class passengers a food voucher they could use in the diner toward the purchase of a meal(s). It could be simple: voucher is your Amtrak ticket stub and amount is half of the amount you paid for the accommodation. The diner would stamp the ticket stub to show it has been used by the passenger. Done.

(or something like that) B)