Covid Mask Mandate for Transportation

[IndyLions]

Again - the only people being protected by masks right now are people who could care less if they are protected or not. That wasn’t true a few months ago, but it’s true now.

Yes - some people on the red side have been programmed that masks never were needed and didn’t help. They’re wrong.

And some on the blue side have been programmed that masks should be required regardless of one’s vaccination status until Covid is “wiped out”. They’re just as wrong.

Both sides think the other side are idiots.

Us independents are even worse, we think they’re all idiots

 

[crescent-zephyr]

Again - the only people being protected by masks right now are people who could care less if they are protected or not. That wasn’t true a few months ago, but it’s true now.

Not completely true. Children still can’t get the vaccine and vaccinated people can still catch covid and can still end up in the hospital or die from it - the risk goes up if you are 65+.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

Yes - some people on the red side have been programmed that masks never were needed and didn’t help.

Half the people I work with think this way and are both anti-mask and anti-vaccine in equal measure. Which is ironic because their anti-vax position is making it worse for their anti-mask goals but they refuse to see it that way.

Both sides think the other side are idiots. Us independents are even worse, we think they’re all idiots

If you want me to believe both sides are equally crazy I'll need some examples of enraged pro-maskers shooting random strangers for refusing to wear a mask.

 

[dlagrua]

I don't try to "rock the boat" If average store bought masks are required for air and train transportation, if it makes them happy I'll wear them. However, they should also explain to us how a std surgical mask designed to stop bacteria particles is going to protect me against viral microbes that are fractions of millionths of an inch in size. I believe that unless you are wearing an N95 mask, the store bought mask variety is absolutely useless against Covid.

 

[me_little_me]

I don't try to "rock the boat" If average store bought masks are required for air and train transportation, if it makes them happy I'll wear them. However, they should also explain to us how a std surgical mask designed to stop bacteria particles is going to protect me against viral microbes that are fractions of millionths of an inch in size. I believe that unless you are wearing an N95 mask, the store bought mask variety is absolutely useless against Covid.

Your mask is primarily to protect others from your exhaling the germs. Since we have not implemented a standard way to determine for sure who has been vaccinated and since even if vaccinated, you can get the virus and spread it to small children, it is not unreasonable to require masks. The virii may be that small but the water droplets in which they travel are not.

 

[IndyLions]

If you want me to believe both sides are equally crazy I'll need some examples of enraged pro-maskers shooting random strangers for refusing to wear a mask.

Just convince me you get at least some of your news from sources other than CNN or MSNBC and that would at least prove to me you are trying.

Too many Americans looking through the lens of one viewpoint these days…

 

[MARC Rider]

I don't try to "rock the boat" If average store bought masks are required for air and train transportation, if it makes them happy I'll wear them. However, they should also explain to us how a std surgical mask designed to stop bacteria particles is going to protect me against viral microbes that are fractions of millionths of an inch in size. I believe that unless you are wearing an N95 mask, the store bought mask variety is absolutely useless against Covid.

This was a controlled study where they had people sing or speak into a cone and measured aerosol emissions. Note the boxplots at the far right. The face masks blocked nearly all of the aerosols emitted during loud singing. In fact, the average number of droplets with a face mask on was less than even simple breathing or normal talking. The viruses are found in the droplets and the aerosols. The masks block the droplets and the aerosols. Thus, even though the nominal pore size of the mask material might be greater than the size of the virus particles, the masks are highly effective at blocking viruses.

I don't know why people insist on engaging in all sorts of mental gymnastics to justify not doing something that is clearly beneficial for public health and something that will end the pandemic faster.

 

[neroden]

I don't try to "rock the boat" If average store bought masks are required for air and train transportation, if it makes them happy I'll wear them. However, they should also explain to us how a std surgical mask designed to stop bacteria particles is going to protect me against viral microbes that are fractions of millionths of an inch in size.

Happy to explain. The viruses aren't "naked". They're embedded in small blobs of water (aerosols) and those blobs are large enough that they get stopped by the cloth masks.

I believe that unless you are wearing an N95 mask, the store bought mask variety is absolutely useless against Covid.

You're wrong. But this was a very common mistake! Many medical professionals were wrong about this too, back in March of 2020. It required a large campaign by aerosol scientists to correct the confusion of the medical community. As I can see, the confusion still persists. Happy to help clear it up.

Here's one good article about the confusion:
https://www.wired.com/story/the-teeny-tiny-scientific-screwup-that-helped-covid-kill/

 

[neroden]

Just convince me you get at least some of your news from sources other than CNN or MSNBC and that would at least prove to me you are trying.

Too many Americans looking through the lens of one viewpoint these days…

I got my news from sources like Medscape:

https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/934837
Convinced yet?

 

[jebr]

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[daybeers]

I took the Metro-North Harlem Line from Brewster, NY to GCT and back yesterday for the NYC Pride festival. I've been on several (usually small) train trips since the start of the pandemic, and this was by far the most patronized one. I haven't ridden an Amtrak train since they went to full capacity (not on purpose, just a coincidence), but on this 8-car M7 train, I'd say 80-85% of seats were taken both ways. Median age was probably 25 or younger. Mask compliance, however, was about 75% and the MN conductors made announcements but didn't say anything to those passengers not wearing masks. There were even whole groups of 6 or 8 not wearing them. Frustrates me because there are many who can't get the vaccine for health reasons and/or are immunocompromised. I did my duty and got the vaccine. Sometimes I go into stores and don't wear a mask (if they allow it). I frankly don't care whether the other passengers are fully vaccinated or not, you wear the mask for others, not yourself, and it's a federal mandate. The MTA has done a fantastic ad campaign with those yellow signs with cartoonish faces. COVID is far from over and I don't want to scare away riders because some people can't wear a piece of fabric for less than two hours.

Some essential places that have removed their mask requirements at least have other options, like curbside pickup or delivery. For transportation, however, what's the other option?

Thousands in NYC for the festival. Was nice to see the city coming alive again. GCT was fairly crowded for a Sunday morning. Some of the subway lines were fairly crowded. Highly recommend Bareburger in Queens, about 7 minute walk from the Broadway stop on the N & W lines.

Those M7s are pretty awesome. I don't ride EMUs much and they are in a different world than 20-year old diesels hauling heavy coaches.

 

[IndyLions]

I got my news from sources like Medscape:

https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/934837
Convinced yet?

My position has never been that masks weren’t absolutely necessary during the pandemic. They were our best defense when people were unable to social distance and prior to the wide rollout of the vaccines. Masks are still critical in many parts of the world.

But in late June 2021 in the US, having fully vaccinated, non-immunocompromised adults wearing masks does nothing statistically relevant towards ending the pandemic sooner.

The 30-40% of Americans who haven’t been vaccinated are the statistical elephant in the room. At best - the vaccinated wearing masks is round-off error as far as increased risk goes.

Now as far as your position - I’m convinced from your posts that you are very concerned about the current state of the pandemic. Also from your posts I’ve gathered that either yourself or a loved one are immunocompromized. That makes it perfectly understandable that you would hesitate to travel in public. I also feel bad that herd immunity will likely not be achieved. But that will never be achieved with masks - only with vaccines.

 

[IndyLions]

I took the Metro-North Harlem Line from Brewster, NY to GCT and back yesterday for the NYC Pride festival. I've been on several (usually small) train trips since the start of the pandemic, and this was by far the most patronized one. I haven't ridden an Amtrak train since they went to full capacity (not on purpose, just a coincidence), but on this 8-car M7 train, I'd say 80-85% of seats were taken both ways. Median age was probably 25 or younger. Mask compliance, however, was about 75% and the MN conductors made announcements but didn't say anything to those passengers not wearing masks. There were even whole groups of 6 or 8 not wearing them. Frustrates me because there are many who can't get the vaccine for health reasons and/or are immunocompromised. I did my duty and got the vaccine. Sometimes I go into stores and don't wear a mask (if they allow it). I frankly don't care whether the other passengers are fully vaccinated or not, you wear the mask for others, not yourself, and it's a federal mandate. The MTA has done a fantastic ad campaign with those yellow signs with cartoonish faces. COVID is far from over and I don't want to scare away riders because some people can't wear a piece of fabric for less than two hours.

Some essential places that have removed their mask requirements at least have other options, like curbside pickup or delivery. For transportation, however, what's the other option?

I agree this is a bummer. Whatever the rules are, whether we agree with them or not – it is our duty to continue wearing masks where they are mandated.

Really no different than any other law. And like many other laws, they are not universally enforced.

 

[dlagrua]

Happy to explain. The viruses aren't "naked". They're embedded in small blobs of water (aerosols) and those blobs are large enough that they get stopped by the cloth masks.
You're wrong. But this was a very common mistake! Many medical professionals were wrong about this too, back in March of 2020. It required a large campaign by aerosol scientists to correct the confusion of the medical community. As I can see, the confusion still persists. Happy to help clear it up. Here's one good article about the confusion:
https://www.wired.com/story/the-teeny-tiny-scientific-screwup-that-helped-covid-kill/

That explanation sounds logical to me and provides some confidence that masks can help. Wearing a mask was never the issue on this end. It was whether or not they offered the needed protection. In my wife's hospital (shes a nurse) 50 nurses and staff contracted Covid and all wore masks. When I look at that situation, I say the jury is still out on this end. As for Amtrak, if they want masks, I will ride with one.

 

[crescent-zephyr]

In my wife's hospital (shes a nurse) 50 nurses and staff contracted Covid and all wore masks.

Masks won’t 100% stop the virus... neither does the vaccine.

Masks will help reduce the spread. The vaccine helps to protect you from catching it and if you do catch it, it helps keep you out of the hospital.

 

[jebr]

Looks like some US senators are asking the CDC and TSA for an update on the transportation mask mandate, especially for vaccinated passengers. Press release from Sen. Klobuchar's office:

Citing new guidance for vaccinated people, senators request more information on process for updating travel guidance

“If the requirement for wearing masks while traveling can be safely lifted and would serve the public health interest, then we believe it would benefit the traveling public”​

Washington – U.S. Senators Amy Klobuchar (D-MN), Brian Schatz (D-HI), Roger Wicker (R-MS), Susan Collins (R-ME), and Jerry Moran (R-KS) sent a letter to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) and the Transportation Security Administration (TSA) requesting more information on when and how the agencies will update their travel guidance for vaccinated people. In the letter, the senators expressed support for measures to prevent the spread of coronavirus while also highlighting that the CDC’s guidance on face masks for fully vaccinated people has evolved as new data has become available.

“The CDC’s guidance on face masks for fully vaccinated people has evolved as new data have become available and as more individuals are vaccinated. In May, the CDC announced new guidance that fully vaccinated individuals could resume activities without wearing a mask or staying six feet apart. At that time, the CDC said that it would continue to update its guidance for travel as the science emerges and that it would need to collaborate with other agencies as the face mask requirement is an interagency policy,” the senators wrote.

They continued: “As there has not yet been any change in the requirement for masks while traveling, we request an update on the CDC’s and TSA’s process for updating the mask requirement for fully vaccinated individuals and what the science is showing about the transmission of COVID-19 for fully vaccinated individuals while traveling.”

 

[Abe26]

Finally someone doing about this stupid mask mandate.
Its about time to lift it.
A lot of people once they are in the seats don't have it on

 

[Exvalley]

The World Health Organization is encouraging fully vaccinated people to wear masks due to the Delta (a.k.a. Indian) variant.

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/06/25/del...ontinue-to-wear-masks-as-variant-spreads.html

 

[jiml]

I wonder if some of the confusion and disagreement over continuing mask use is the result of conflicting messaging from politicians and health officials? On the one hand politicians of all stripes suggest no need for masks after a second shot, but then are contradicted minutes later by health people saying "not so fast", as pointed out by @Exvalley above. In Canada it sounds like masks are going to be around for a very long time in spite of vaccination status. One medical "talking head" on the news the other night was advocating they be made mandatory during every flu season. I'd be very surprised to see the restrictions eased on public transportation anytime soon - and we'll be well behind the US lead.

 

[Abe26]

The World Health Organization is encouraging fully vaccinated people to wear masks due to the Delta (a.k.a. Indian) variant.

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/06/25/del...ontinue-to-wear-masks-as-variant-spreads.html

Will never trust that organization again

 

[Devil's Advocate]

Just convince me you get at least some of your news from sources other than CNN or MSNBC and that would at least prove to me you are trying. Too many Americans looking through the lens of one viewpoint these days…

So are you saying you have no examples of pro-maskers shooting anyone or are you saying you refuse to believe anyone has been shot by anti-maskers?

Will never trust that organization again

This might have meant something if there was any evidence you ever trusted them before.

 

[AmtrakBlue]

Just convince me you get at least some of your news from sources other than CNN or MSNBC and that would at least prove to me you are trying.

Too many Americans looking through the lens of one viewpoint these days…

Sorry if I missed it. Please provide us with your news sources.

 

[Cal]

I don't mind wearing the mask, doesn't bother me that much. Keep them on!

 

[enviro5609]

The WHO is giving its guidance to the entire world, where the overwhelming majority are not vaccinated.

In the US, we are fortunate enough to have reached a high enough vaccination level to allow masks to be optional, hence the CDC guidance.

They aren’t contradictory, just for different audiences. It’s easy to think this thing is over, but most of the world is still where the US was back in Dec-Jan. when it comes to vaccinations.

 

[Bob Dylan]

The WHO is giving its guidance to the entire world, where the overwhelming majority are not vaccinated.

In the US, we are fortunate enough to have reached a high enough vaccination level to allow masks to be optional, hence the CDC guidance.

They aren’t contradictory, just for different audiences. It’s easy to think this thing is over, but most of the world is still where the US was back in Dec-Jan. when it comes to vaccinations.

True this, but it's still a jungle out there, and with the 4th Holiday upcoming, the Young and the Stupid will spread it all over, even to people who have been Vaccinated!

I'll still wear my Mask( I was Vaccinated in Jan and am tested Weekly) around Crowds, inside places and where it is Mandatory( ie on Public Transportstion).