Menu Changes (October 2017)

[crescent-zephyr]

I think the diner veggie burger is pretty good for the price. I can't speak for the regular burger.

 

[niemi24s]

"miscellaneous seafood cake" = CAT FOOD!

Have you actually put any in your mouth, or are you just running off at the same?

I HAVE had the crab cakes before' so retract your smart ass remark!

Consider it done. Glad to hear your assessment was based on actual tasting.

 

[jebr]

You have unreasonable pricing expectations.

Amtrak doesn't have to lower their prices to make people happy. They can simply serve a burger that is actually worth $13. Instead they sell a precooked frozen reheated hockey puck for $13. I've visited sports stadiums that did a better job of offering value for money than Amtrak's dining car.

If a burger is worth $13, Amtrak will charge you at least $20. You're on a train and a captive audience. It's simple economics. Expecting good value for the price on a train is idiotic. Why should they? What are you going to do, take another company's train? Oh wait. Take Greyhound? Have their food. Oh wait.

Except the burger arguably isn't worth an inflated $13. There's a lot of restaurants that sell a decent $6-$8 burger at a static location (Five Guys, Smashburger, etc.) The burger in the diner tastes pretty much the same as the burger in the cafe car, in my opinion. The cafe car burger is obviously a heat and eat, and if the diner car burger tastes the same...

And if the food is poor enough without options, people will drive, take the bus, or fly and not have to worry about on-board food. The number of people who will only take a train, while not zero, is quite small, and Amtrak isn't going to grow just with that truly captive audience. I don't think most people are expecting an amazing value for the money, but people want to be able to eat something more than heat-and-eat for their hamburger in a diner car that tries to push itself as a somewhat nice place to eat in.

 

[benale]

I remember when the burger in the dining car was quite good. I was disappointed in the burger I had yesterday. Burger Kings Whopper tasted better at nine dollars less. As mentioned,if you are going to charge $13 for a hamburger in the dining car on Amtrak, a great dining experience,at least make the

burger one step above fast food

Judging by the burger I had yesterday it was on the same level as McDonalds,Burger King,Wendys,etc.

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[pennyk]

I remember when the burger in the dining car was quite good. I was disappointed in the burger I had yesterday. Burger Kings Whopper tasted better at nine dollars less. As mentioned,if you are going to charge $13 for a hamburger in the dining car on Amtrak, a great dining experience,at least make the

burger one step above fast food

Judging by the burger I had yesterday it was on the same level as McDonalds,Burger King,Wendys,etc.

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I may be easier to please. The burger I had a lunch today in the dining car was perfectly fine, and much better than what one could get at a fast food restaurnt. My tablemate thought the same.

 

[Dakota 400]

I think the breakfast and dinner choices are good, but there's nothing I like on the new lunch menu. I asked for the kids' menu items twice and was given them with no quarrel. The mac and cheese was blah (basic children's food out a box), but the hot dog was quite good.

I've not had the opportunity to try the new menus, but I agree with your opinion about both the Breakfast and Dinner Menus then as well as with the new published ones. Plenty of enjoyable choices for me, but the Lunch menu then--and still with the new menu--is lacking as far as I am concerned. I had the burger both days during my EB trip and I was pleased with what I was served. I'd appreciate something more "creative" than "Kettle Chips", however. I had considered ordering the Mac & Cheese once, but didn't.

 

[tommylicious]

OK now...what exactly is a "griddle seared shellfish cake" ? Ground up shrimp eyes and tails mixed in with various Monsanto-engineered synthetic bonding agents? Why not just the damn shrimp like before ?!?! Big Food killing the population.

 

[Steve4031]

The burger I had on 6 last Saturday was missing something. Not sure what it was but it was not as good as ones I had even a year or two back. I am also a bit bored by the burger to. I like the bacon and cheese quesadillas on the last menu. The mussels on this menu. The hot dog looked good when another pax ordered it. The bun was toasted.

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[Ryan]

Except the burger arguably isn't worth an inflated $13.

One could argue the alternative - by definition, the burger is worth $13 for as long as people to continue to pay for it.

All this burger talk is making we wish that I'd grabbed a second In-n-Out while I was there for lunch. Would go nicely as I sit in the barren wasteland that is ONT airport.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

Except the burger arguably isn't worth an inflated $13.

One could argue the alternative - by definition, the burger is worth $13 for as long as people to continue to pay for it.

That's the problem with gauging the genuine desires of a captive audience. There's not much opportunity for meaningful choices or actionable feedback so the ability to draw useful conclusions is limited.

If you travel in a sleeper then in most cases you're out the money either way so I'd imagine many people figure they might as well order something, even if when it's not what they really want. Some people may view the sleeper meals as a credit rather than a debit but the emotional response to the meal clock is likely to be the same. Either you use it or lose it.

If we ignore kids meals and breakfast options, then burgers and salads now represent 80% of the available lunch meals on the standardized national menu. In the case of the limited express menu, burgers and salad now represent a full 100% of the non-breakfast lunch meals for adults. We're talking (nearly) every long distance train, every single day, in both directions, for months on end. It's almost like Amtrak is daring us to stop eating.

Some people would probably put up with almost any food just for the experience and atmosphere. Others have mentioned they still enjoy the meals exactly as offered. But for me the Amtrak dining experience generally begins to fall apart the moment I start paying attention to whatever I'm actually eating.

 

[OlympianHiawatha]

"miscellaneous seafood cake" = CAT FOOD!

Have you actually put any in your mouth, or are you just running off at the same?

I HAVE had the crab cakes before' so retract your smart ass remark!

Consider it done. Glad to hear your assessment was based on actual tasting.

Thank you I found them to be way to "fishy" and coarse in texture; no where near a good Maryland Crab Cake.

 

[SarahZ]

I'm kind of interested in the salad offered at lunch. Breakfast is always so heavy that I'm usually not in the mood to shove a burger or meatballs down on top of that, so having a salad (with chicken) is a good compromise.

I'll report back after my trip.

 

[Philly Amtrak Fan]

Except the burger arguably isn't worth an inflated $13.

One could argue the alternative - by definition, the burger is worth $13 for as long as people to continue to pay for it.

That's the problem with gauging the genuine desires of a captive audience. There's not much opportunity for meaningful choices or actionable feedback so the ability to draw useful conclusions is limited.

If you travel in a sleeper then in most cases you're out the money either way so I'd imagine many people figure they might as well order something, even if when it's not what they really want. Some people may view the sleeper meals as a credit rather than a debit but the emotional response to the meal clock is likely to be the same. Either you use it or lose it.

If we ignore kids meals and breakfast options, then burgers and salads now represent 80% of the available lunch meals on the standardized national menu. In the case of the limited express menu, burgers and salad now represent a full 100% of the non-breakfast lunch meals for adults. We're talking (nearly) every long distance train, every single day, in both directions, for months on end. It's almost like Amtrak is daring us to stop eating.

Some people would probably put up with almost any food just for the experience and atmosphere. Others have mentioned they still enjoy the meals exactly as offered. But for me the Amtrak dining experience generally begins to fall apart the moment I start paying attention to whatever I'm actually eating.

And this is why I as a single person am priced out of sleepers. I'm essentially paying for two people's meals. Roomettes are really priced for couples not for single people.

 

[Ryan]

I’m not sure why you harbor the mistaken belief that a price on the menu has anything to do with the price of a sleeper ticket.

 

[Green Maned Lion]

Lets remember that the fully allocated cost of that burger to Amtrak is ~ $10; that includes your well paid (please dont turn this into a union bashing thread!) railroad employees, dining car maintenance, and costs of pulling the car.

Its a bit of a misleading pricing arguement to base decisions on fully allocated costs, but if that burger does cost $10 to put on your plate, does that really mean Amtrak is gouging you?

Five Guys sucks, but there are good burger restaurants who can put a decent burger on your plate for $8. But that is a stationary restaurant, not requiring FRA inspections, vehicle maintenance, Federal food scrutiny from the FDA, union railroad employees, and wear and tear on the cooking equipment due to it not being stationary.

We need to consider that boost in costs, as well as a basic fair price premium for captivity. Proper business practice means charging what you can while producing satisfied customers- granting that this discussion suggests that the latter is not fully being met.

 

[George K]

Are any of the menus available with Amtrak's new and improved website? I can't seem to find them.

 

[jimmrl]

OK now...what exactly is a "griddle seared shellfish cake" ? Ground up shrimp eyes and tails mixed in with various Monsanto-engineered synthetic bonding agents? Why not just the damn shrimp like before ?!?! Big Food killing the population.

They were the best seafood cakes I have ever had. They are the only seafood cakes I have ever had. Did they hold up to a really good crab cake, no, but I have had crab cakes worse than the seafood cake Amtrak served me last night.

Overall three people at my table had them and we were all surprised by them. Mostly because we expected them to be bad and they were not.

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[zephyr17]

I’m not sure why you harbor the mistaken belief that a price on the menu has anything to do with the price of a sleeper ticket.

Well, speaking as one who was present when they first started this in the 80's, you could really see it then. When the introduced the included meals (they are NOT complementary), they increased the prices for the sleepers by almost exactly the amount that would cover meals for 2 for the duration of the trip. How that has played out since, I can't speak to, but when they first did it, it was glaringly obvious to anyone doing the arithmetic.

I also understand at least part of the reason it was done was to ensure more steady cash flow for the diners to reduce some of the diner losses.

Before, I usually did not eat three full meals in the diner. After I always do, especially because I know I am paying for them twice.

 

[AmtrakLKL]

Lets remember that the fully allocated cost of that burger to Amtrak is ~ $10; that includes your well paid (please dont turn this into a union bashing thread!) railroad employees, dining car maintenance, and costs of pulling the car.

I'm fairly certain the fully allocated cost of that burger significantly exceeds $13 when you factor in the well paid railroad employees, dining car maintenance and overhaul, commissary costs (employees, warehouses and food), fuel and mileage costs.

 

[Green Maned Lion]

It doesnt, actually. I did the math somewhere else on this forum, years ago. Its right around $8 for everything but the food per meal, of the car is used at 85% capacity with a one hour meal throughput, based on- oh hell, I dont remember the precise assumptions for service length and so on, but I remember most of the more knowledgeable agreeing with my premises, and I did really extensive research to come up with the number. $2 should cover that burger, bun, and the potatoe chips. When I did the numbers, salad was still included, as was iced tea, but that stuff had de minimus costing.

 

[willem]

[...] the included meals (they are NOT complementary)[...]

I suppose others might disagree, but I consider the included meals to be complementary. What they are not is complimentary.

 

[Ryan]

I’m not sure why you harbor the mistaken belief that a price on the menu has anything to do with the price of a sleeper ticket.

How that has played out since, I can't speak to

That’s my point. The 80’s were a long time ago. Fares are set based on what the market will bear. Internal funds transfers don’t have anything to do with how much is charged for a ticket.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

I’m not sure why you harbor the mistaken belief that a price on the menu has anything to do with the price of a sleeper ticket.

How that has played out since, I can't speak to

That’s my point. The 80’s were a long time ago. Fares are set based on what the market will bear. Internal funds transfers don’t have anything to do with how much is charged for a ticket.

Fares are set based on internal variables and algorithms that are hidden to us. It would take a substantial amount of time and money to determine how close Amtrak prices match what the market can actually bear. Rather than trying to extrapolate today's pricing from 1980's decisions or making claims about opaque pricing systems we have no way of verifying, why not simply compare and contrast the Silver Star and Silver Meteor today? It may not be perfect but it would seem to give us our best guess as to what Amtrak considers their dining car meals to actually be worth today.

 

[KmH]

When the introduced the included meals (they are NOT complementary), they increased the prices for the sleepers by almost exactly the amount that would cover meals for 2 for the duration of the trip. How that has played out since, I can't speak to, but when they first did it, it was glaringly obvious to anyone doing the arithmetic.

I agree the dining car meals are not complimentary.

It seems obvious that sleeper passengers pay for dining car meals in advance, as part of the price for a sleeper berth.

It also seems those that travel in a Roomette by themselves are paying in advance for meals for 2 people too.

 

[Cho Cho Charlie]

When the introduced the included meals (they are NOT complementary), they increased the prices for the sleepers by almost exactly the amount that would cover meals for 2 for the duration of the trip. How that has played out since, I can't speak to, but when they first did it, it was glaringly obvious to anyone doing the arithmetic.

I agree the dining car meals are not complimentary.It seems obvious that sleeper passengers pay for dining car meals in advance, as part of the price for a sleeper berth.

It also seems those that travel in a Roomette by themselves are paying in advance for meals for 2 people too.

I know this has been debated back and forth a few times here, but are the number of means included now the typical number of occupants, or the max number of occupants? For example, is a Roomette meals for 2, or meals for 3? Bedroom meals for 4?

For max, I would take that to mean seating capacity, not sleeping, and for younger people, not full size grown up people. That's because regardless of age, they are offered an adult meal in the dinning car.