Modified Dining Car Service on Lake Shore Limited Effective 7/20/16

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GaSteve said:
All I can tell you is that 19/20 adds an extra coach on weekends because of demand for a total of four.
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I'm not impressed. I used to see 1/2 and 19/20 operate with 6-8 coaches depending on the season. The same thing has happened to the Silver Meteor and Silver Star, which used to be 15-19 car trains and are now 11 or less. Yes, the Amfleet II coaches have slightly more seats than the Heritage cars they replaced, but the difference is minor. Demand is down, and I don't believe it has much to do with diner-or-no-diner. Eventually you reach the point where something major like checked baggage service, the diner, or the lounge has to go. The diner is the easy choice.
 
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Lonestar648 said:
If the all Viewliner Diners are completed, then where are they sitting? If none of the completed cars can pass acceptance testing, could Amtrak quietly decide to cancel the contract for failing to build an acceptable product?
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And where would that put us? It's already been mentioned that there isn't enough diners to cover the single level trains. Nor are there enough dinettes to cover the single level trains. So if we want to see ALL diner service cut on the single levels....sure, cancel the order.
 
xyzzy said:
GaSteve said:
All I can tell you is that 19/20 adds an extra coach on weekends because of demand for a total of four.
Click to expand...
I'm not impressed. I used to see 1/2 and 19/20 operate with 6-8 coaches depending on the season. The same thing has happened to the Silver Meteor and Silver Star, which used to be 15-19 car trains and are now 11 or less. Yes, the Amfleet II coaches have slightly more seats than the Heritage cars they replaced, but the difference is minor. Demand is down, and I don't believe it has much to do with diner-or-no-diner. Eventually you reach the point where something major like checked baggage service, the diner, or the lounge has to go. The diner is the easy choice.
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Did demand decline or did the level of service drop?

Remember that both the 15-19 car Silver Star and Silver Meteor ran as two sections south of either Jacksonville or Auburndale, and both used to serve Tampa, along with the S-line via Ocala. When you reduce service to that great an extent, you shouldn't be surprised when you have fewer passengers.

Note also that the consists did not shrink when Amfleet II cars replaced Heritage coaches; That happened years later when Amtrak "standardized" on a set consist of four coaches and two sleepers and ceased splitting the trains. You also cannot definitely state that demand is down when you cut capacity.
 
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In the past week I booked a sleeper trip to New Orleans on the Crescent for August. I've chosen to start from WAS instead of CVS to get the full diner dinner experience on Day 1, since Day 2 is likely to be the Express Service due to the early arrival time in New Orleans. So I'm selfishly glad the Lake Shore is getting the downgrade right now instead of the Crescent.

Also, in the future when ThirdRail starts talking about "change", I will not be a wide-eyed optimist and presume that the potential change will be a positive development.
 
Carolina Special said:
In the past week I booked a sleeper trip to New Orleans on the Crescent for August. I've chosen to start from WAS instead of CVS to get the full diner dinner experience on Day 1, since Day 2 is likely to be the Express Service due to the early arrival time in New Orleans. So I'm selfishly glad the Lake Shore is getting the downgrade right now instead of the Crescent.

Also, in the future when ThirdRail starts talking about "change", I will not be a wide-eyed optimist and presume that the potential change will be a positive development.
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I agree. I was thinking a couple of new diners were coming out soon.
 
A Voice said:
You also cannot definitely state that demand is down when you cut capacity.
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If demand were still high and Amtrak had arbitrarily reduced supply, Amtrak would be able to increase prices. We see no evidence of that, even in sleepers where the no-diner experiment on the Silver Star has reportedly driven up demand for accommodations. The more likely situation is that demand has fallen and Amtrak has prudently reduced capacity in proportion, thereby reducing expenses.

Falling demand is easy to understand, given that Southwest and Jetblue have driven down prices in the east and given the prolonged unreliability of the Florida trains against published schedules. Last time I did the math, the airlines had over 10,000 nonstop seats a day from northeast markets to Florida -- and more seats on connections. This is radically different from 1971-1985 when Amtrak and Southern operated longer consists. Meanwhile almost everyone living in the southeast who has ever ridden Amtrak more than a time or two has a horror story to tell about lengthy delays. After a while, this ill will does add up.
 
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well i hope this thread is right, that this is prep for the viewliner diners and not yet another deprecation of service with all those heritage units sitting in the chicago yard.
 
Wish they could have held off for another couple weeks. Taking our first Amtrak trip next week on the LSL & EB to Glacier Park, heard mostly good reviews on the Amtrak diner food and was looking forward to the eating on a train experience. Sorry to hear it might end up being donut holes from the café, at least on the LSL.

I live about 50 miles east of the CAF Elmira plant, didn't even know they had a contract for the new Viewliners.
 
Personally, if they replaced the diners with EB PDX version of boxed meals, I'd be happy with it, but the extra lounge heated burgers not so much.

DSC00945 by B H, on Flickr

DSC00943 by B H, on Flickr

Also, they loaded Chicken Dinner's in Havre Montana. I was fine with the taste as well, and would not actually mind locally prepped, meals picked up along the route.

DSC01142 by B H, on Flickr

Really after the SWC service 2 weeks ago, I would have much preferred one of these boxes served on the EB.
 
Let's hope they cook up a few meals in the new diners before they enter service... Don't want that metalic taste from new kitchen goods that say "wash before use" . ;)

Ed.
 
seat38a said:
Personally, if they replaced the diners with EB PDX version of boxed meals, I'd be happy with it, but the extra lounge heated burgers not so much.
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Sorry, but reminds me of the Swanson TV dinners I ate, back when I first started living on my own after graduation. :eek:hboy:
 
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I'm sure most Amtrak routes pass fairly close to some prisons as they make their way across the country; given our incarceration rate it'd be hard not to. Couldn't we just have prisons prepare a delectable selection of choice nutritional options for delivery to the train at specified points? Even if the train is late, it's not like the staff is GOING anywhere! (Unless it's 3-6 for B&E late)... ;)
 
If they had to cut diners... I guess the LSL was the train to do it on. Going east you only get a breakfast and a lunch anyway in the dining car. Heck... just put out some juice and muffins and a build your own sandwich bar for lunch... and you dont even need the extra cafe car.

This is another reason I dont see us ever going from Chicago east on Amtrak. All trains now lack good service in the diner. #50 and #59 went to this horrible microwave meal thing on May 1st. They basically peal this plastic film off your TV dinner and serve it to you. We rode #30 in late April and our 8:30pm CT dining car time didnt get seated until 10:05pm CT with the Cross Country Cafe setup. Now this with #48?

I will just take a private car east if a trip is available OR fly on Southwest for $69 to BWI or LGA.
 
Triley said:
Lonestar648 said:
If the all Viewliner Diners are completed, then where are they sitting? If none of the completed cars can pass acceptance testing, could Amtrak quietly decide to cancel the contract for failing to build an acceptable product?
Click to expand...
And where would that put us? It's already been mentioned that there isn't enough diners to cover the single level trains. Nor are there enough dinettes to cover the single level trains. So if we want to see ALL diner service cut on the single levels....sure, cancel the order.
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Does Amtrak really need single level dining cars anymore? Seems like overkill for the remaining menu options and staff reductions. If Amtrak can find a way to offload those orders or to convert the dining cars to something that can generate appreciable revenue then why not?
 
Just to make note, as it is relevant to this topic: I caught the 49-18 through Toledo this morning and this particular train already had 2 Amfleet II lounge cars. I hope that isn't the case tomorrow, as I hope to go out and see 49-19 with a heritage diner one last time.
 
rph said:
Wish they could have held off for another couple weeks. Taking our first Amtrak trip next week on the LSL & EB to Glacier Park, heard mostly good reviews on the Amtrak diner food and was looking forward to the eating on a train experience. Sorry to hear it might end up being donut holes from the café, at least on the LSL.

I live about 50 miles east of the CAF Elmira plant, didn't even know they had a contract for the new Viewliners.
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Taking our first LSL soon too! Disappointed to miss out as well!!
 
I think the first group of us going to the OTOL Fest were on the last LSL with a full Diner. Alan who was on the train the day after had two Amfleet II Lounges.

The CAF thing is turning out to be one of the most spectacular failures of the Boardman regime at Amtrak. Good intentions but very poor execution.
 
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