Montana wants another train

[Gratt]

The legislature of Montana just passed a resolution supporting the EB and saying that Southern Montana also needs a train in the form of the North Coast Hiawatha

The text can be found here

While I would love to be able to take a train to these towns (not to mention Yellowstone :wub: )

Is Montana willing to do anything more than pass a resolution in support? I believe the Amtrak study said start-up costs for the NCH would be just shy of one billion.

The way I see it if Montana really wants this they should cut a deal with Montana rail link (the RR that owns most of the track in question in MT)

To operate a day train in the area. Once that is done and the stations are built I would say the next logical step is to make it or add the NCH.

Something tells me though they are not going to put up the comparatively smaller amount of money for this. hboy:

 

[Green Maned Lion]

Talk is easy...

Money talks, the rest walks.

 

[Tumbleweed]

Southern North Dakota would like to see this also....Fargo, Valley City, Jamestown, Bismarck and Dickinson all were served by the old Northern Pacific North Coast Limited back in the day.....

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

Ohio wanted a train. Wisconsin wanted more trains. Then Gov. John Kaisich (R-Wall Street) and Gov. Scotty Mubarak (R-Wiscairo) decided otherwise.

 

[bretton88]

How cute! Montana wants a toy train to operate from Podunk to Podunksville. Sounds awfully similar to another train down in New Mexico.

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

Actually it seems they want a long distance train to connect them to Chicago and the West Coast.

 

[bretton88]

Actually it seems they want a long distance train to connect them to Chicago and the West Coast.

Sadly, they'll need more than just them to make that happen. Multi-state cooperation almost never happens. They should prove they want a train by starting up commuter operations on the Montana Rail Link. Then that support can make it easier for Amtrak to restart the NCH.

 

[Ispolkom]

Southern North Dakota would like to see this also....Fargo, Valley City, Jamestown, Bismarck and Dickinson all were served by the old Northern Pacific North Coast Limited back in the day.....

I say this as a native North Dakotan: sure, Bismarck, Jamestown, Dickinson, Billings, etc. want a train. Are we talking 200k total population along the line? They aren't willing to pay for it, and BNSF isn't going to be happy to have interference with their Powder River coal trains. It ain't happening. Heck, the Empire Builder wouldn't be viable if it tried to start up today.

 

[eagle628]

Actually it seems they want a long distance train to connect them to Chicago and the West Coast.

Sadly, they'll need more than just them to make that happen. Multi-state cooperation almost never happens. They should prove they want a train by starting up commuter operations on the Montana Rail Link. Then that support can make it easier for Amtrak to restart the NCH.

No it won't. It'll screw them ten times over. A commuter line in Montana would be an unmitigated disaster. It'd get about ten people a day, lose a few million dollars, and become the poster boy for the tea party types as to why rail is an outmoded form of transport that should be shot on sight. There's no population center on the MRL except maybe Billings, which has a population of about 150,000 people. Not enough to sustain a viable commuter operation--look at Albequerque or Minneapolis, both have much larger populations, but Rail Runner and Northstar aren't doing too well. A commuter line might get local support, but it wouldn't be sustainable, and would get shut down, souring the whole region on the idea of rail travel. In fact, a place like Montana is the best location for a long-distance train--there's not a whole lot of public transportation, the road system isn't highly developed, and Amtrak can fill a niche in a lot of smaller communities that would otherwise have minimal public transport. The EB does a lot of that currently in the northern plains and Rockies, and is arguably Amtrak's most successful long-distance train.

 

[bretton88]

I agree. I more think that they should put the improvements to the line in place and then wait for the NCH to use it. A commuter line would be a financial disaster like the Railrunner is risking becoming.

 

[AlanB]

A commuter line would be a financial disaster like the Railrunner is risking becoming.

Railrunner isn't exactly a disaster. Yes, its fare box recovery is very poor compared to other commuter rail systems. Railrunner only achieves a 14.01% recovery, while commuter rail in general hits 47.96%.

But their operating expense per passenger mile, 43 cents, isn't very far off the national average of 40 cents.

So it really seems like they just need to start charging a bit more for the ride. Of course that begets the question of how much would that actually hurt ridership.

Note: The above numbers are from 2009 and if I recall correctly, that was the year that the line was extended to SanteFe. And they offered free rides for that section for several months, which would have hurt the numbers some.

 

[MT rail rider]

The state wouldn't need to run a **commuter** train. They could run 1-3 trains a day between Billings and Missoula. This would be similar to what they're running in North Carolina between Charlotte and Raleigh. This would be for intrastate itercity service. And the Empire Builder shows that there is demand for such service. There's really very few transportation alternatives in that region. If they're successful, they might interest North Dakota in cooperating on some sort of joint service. With the infrastructure in place, starting up another long distance train to fully connect them to the national network would be a lot cheaper and thus more practical.

 

[JayPea]

Washington could benefit from the restart of service in southern Montana as well. This is all pie in the sky of course, but should a North Coast Limited train be reinstated for its full length between Chicago and Seattle, using the southern route, Spokane would gain more service, and if restoring service to cities that once were served by passenger rail is the goal, then this train could run down to Pasco, then to Yakima and Ellensburg, over Stampede Pass, and on into Auburn and Seattle, using the old Northern Pacific route all the way. And if they REALLY wanted to get fancy, they could split the train in Spokane, like the EB, run the Seattle route as described above, and run a Portland branch on the UP line out of Spokane to Hinkle, OR, where it would then run along the south side of the Columbia, restoring service to Hinkle, The Dalles, and Hood River, places that lost service with the demise of the Pioneer.

And, then again, I could win the Mr. Universe contest! :lol: :lol:

 

[MikefromCrete]

There's no reason (except for money and the resolve to spend it) that Montana couldn't start up train service on the southern route connecting with the Empire Builder. This wouldn't be commuter rail, but rather an intercity service like those sponsored by other states. Having said that, Montana may not have the population density to support such a service and I highly doubt if we'll ever seen a resumption of the old North Coast Hiawatha. But again, as GML said (and I'm always amazed with I agree with GML), money talks.

Also I agree with Alan B. that there's probably nothing wrong with the New Mexico Railrunner service that a fare increase wouldn't help. Their fares are absurdly low, probably to goose ridership to begin with, but the time has come to charge a reasonable fare.