more woes on the Amtrak Michigan Services lines (Blue Water this time)

[reppin_the_847]

Check out this news story from yesterday. A cable got cut somewhere near Niles (MI) and the train lost power. Extreme delays and bustitutions ensued:

Amtrak train becomes disabled, leaving passengers stranded for hourshttp://wwmt.com/shared/news/features/top-stories/stories/wwmt_amtrak-train-becomes-disabled-leaving-passengers-stranded-hours-18425.shtml#.UwTr4PldXlZ

When will the Midwest corridor services catch up with the NEC in terms of on-time service???

 

[SarahZ]

You can hardly use this winter as a guide for on-time service. Additionally, the Michigan Services don't run as often as the NEC, so you can hardly compare their statistics. Plus, some of the trains in the NEC are electrified and run at speeds faster than the Michigan Services.

It's like comparing apples and oranges.

Let's not forget that some of the delays in Chicago were caused by other trains. It's hard for the Wolverine and Blue Water to leave on time when you have to allow for delayed LD trains.

The Michigan trains actually do very well. During the spring/summer/fall months, I often hear them approaching KAL on-time, if not early, most days.

 

[reppin_the_847]

So would you say that these problems are specific to the Michigan Services trains or really symptoms of larger problems at the Chicago hub (as alluded to in a recent thread)? Do the Michigan trains utilize fleet from some of the other Midwest & Long Distance lines?

I also think that the on-time stats for the Pere Marquette tend to be better than the Wolverine & Blue Water. It's too bad the Pere Marquette only runs once per day. They should add New Buffalo as a stop on that line at some point as proposed, and they should boost the frequency on that line as well.

You can hardly use this winter as a guide for on-time service. Additionally, the Michigan Services don't run as often as the NEC, so you can hardly compare their statistics. Plus, some of the trains in the NEC are electrified and run at speeds faster than the Michigan Services.

It's like comparing apples and oranges.

Let's not forget that some of the delays in Chicago were caused by other trains. It's hard for the Wolverine and Blue Water to leave on time when you have to allow for delayed LD trains.

The Michigan trains actually do very well. During the spring/summer/fall months, I often hear them approaching KAL on-time, if not early, most days.

 

[SarahZ]

The Michigan trains sometimes run with Superliners in the winter to alleviate freezing issues. The Superliners cannot run at the 110 mph track speed through SW Michigan, so that can affect the timing.

The Chicago yard can definitely affect the Michigan trains. If trains aren't turned on-time or there are delays with inbound trains, that can jam things up. I've been on a couple of Wolverines that rolled out of the station on-time, only to stop shortly before the Dan Ryan so they could allow two Metra trains and an LD train pass through the area.

I am a huge supporter of HSR across the entire Midwest corridor. If the Illinois Services and Hiawatha could get on board, you might see better numbers. With Michigan owning 110 mph track between Kalamazoo and Porter and expanding said track east to Dearborn, it would be incredible if the track could be extended west from Porter all the way into Chicago. Having the HSR across the state ends up in disappointment when a jam is encountered in IN/IL. I hate that feeling of speeding along, only to stop dead for 20 minutes once we're so very, very close to Chicago.

 

[rrdude]

The Michigan Service has been nothing short of a major embarrassment for Amtrak. How they have ANY riders on this line simply blows me away. True SarahZ, WEST of The Zoo, they do "OK", at best. But I cannot tell you the number of friends and acquaintances who have tried "The Amtrak" in Michigan, at my suggestion, and said, "Never again", the latest being my niece who is from A2 and is a freshman in school at K-College.

One can only hope that when the State, Amtrak, and NS get the eastern portion of the track up to 110MPH, that they can actually RUN closer to on time.

The market is just crazy big, endpoint-to-endpoint, and all the on-line communities. Add'l frequencies could make this line look like the LAX-SAN line, if they just had the equipment.

How many times have you heard someone say, "Wouldn't it be nice to 'train' to Chicago for a day, then catch the train home that night......."

Not gonna happen soon, in my lifetime? Maybe.

 

[SarahZ]

Hopefully, she'll try again when the train schedules aren't completely borked by the weather. I've turned several friends onto taking the train to Chicago, but I warned them that it's been sort of tricky this winter. Keeping that in mind, the two-hour delays didn't faze them, and they plan to go again in the spring/summer.

I agree that the Wolverine needs more frequency; I'm just not sure how to get that. I don't know if that's an Amtrak decision, a state decision, etc. I don't know if the trains sets are available, for example. I would love it, though. I don't like the complete lack of service to Chicago between 2:30 PM and 9:30 PM, as that's an issue for students and those who work 9-5, and I don't like having to leave Chicago by 6:00 PM. Granted those schedules do favor the east side, but I would argue that Kalamazoo has the second-highest ridership (Ann Arbor is the first), so we really should be taken into consideration.

 

[Paul CHI]

I've ridden the Wolverine numerous times, and love trains but I hate that route because of its unpredictability. Last attempt was CHI-KAL back in November. Got the the Union Station cattle holding pen 30 min early. 10 minutes later announced "equipment problems" with no time estimate. I walked straight to the ticket window and demanded a refund, as a delay would not have allowed me to do what I needed to do in Kalamazoo. Weather was not a factor. I think it ultimately left 3 hours late. Returning to CHI on the 9:30, I don't ever recall being on time.

I've also ridden the Pere Marquette to Grand Rapids. It's a nice train, but I can't stand the 1 hour trip from Holland to GR, which can be driven in about 20 minutes.

 

[rrdude]

Hopefully, she'll try again when the train schedules aren't completely borked by the weather. I've turned several friends onto taking the train to Chicago, but I warned them that it's been sort of tricky this winter. Keeping that in mind, the two-hour delays didn't faze them, and they plan to go again in the spring/summer.

I agree that the Wolverine needs more frequency; I'm just not sure how to get that. I don't know if that's an Amtrak decision, a state decision, etc. I don't know if the trains sets are available, for example. I would love it, though. I don't like the complete lack of service to Chicago between 2:30 PM and 9:30 PM, as that's an issue for students and those who work 9-5, and I don't like having to leave Chicago by 6:00 PM. Granted those schedules do favor the east side, but I would argue that Kalamazoo has the second-highest ridership (Ann Arbor is the first), so we really should be taken into consideration.

No weather, no communication, just over a four-hour ride from Zoo to A2. It can be driven in 90 minutes. It'll be a while for she tries THAT again. Ya shudda seen her FB posts, brutal. And I don't blame her one bit. She's the customer of the future, but I guess Amtrak thinks they have an unlimited number of them, and can **** off X number, and still run full trains........

I loved it a few years back when under one Amtrak prez, vouchers were given out for late trains.......

 

[SarahZ]

That ride is 2 hours, 10 minutes when on-schedule, and once the 110 mph line is in place, it will be fairly competitive to (if not shorter than) the current 90-minute drive time on I-94. The only time it takes 4+ hours is when weather or other delays affect it. As I said, she should give it another shot in the spring/summer. Did she call and ask for a voucher?

 

[tim49424]

So would you say that these problems are specific to the Michigan Services trains or really symptoms of larger problems at the Chicago hub (as alluded to in a recent thread)? Do the Michigan trains utilize fleet from some of the other Midwest & Long Distance lines?

I also think that the on-time stats for the Pere Marquette tend to be better than the Wolverine & Blue Water. It's too bad the Pere Marquette only runs once per day. They should add New Buffalo as a stop on that line at some point as proposed, and they should boost the frequency on that line as well.

On time stats for the PM were abysmal at best a couple years ago when it would depart from CHI at 5:20. There has been quite an improvement since the schedule was adjusted to depart at 4:55.

I was told by an assistant conductor on the PM a few days after Thanksgiving that in conjunction with the opening of the new station in Grand Rapids, there will be a second PM added. He speculated trains #372 and #373 would be operational by sometime in June (the station is set to open in April or May). He said the schedule may look like the one they used that Sunday as they had two trains running to accommodate the increase in ridership.

New Buffalo was a stop on the PM until about 5 years ago. They discontinued the stop when the new station in NB opened.

 

[Nathanael]

Amtrak, unfortunately, is not the main cause of late trains on these routes.

Kalamazoo-Porter IN, owned by Amtrak, does great these days.

Kalamazoo-Dearborn has been a mess for the last couple of years due to NS essentially deciding to abandon it. It should be fixed soon now that it's state-owned and being upgraded. I'm not sure how many years the full set of upgrades will take. I know they're moving as fast as they can manage, and that they have to do most of it by 2017. Last I heard, Kalamazoo-Battle Creek will have new (110 mph) signalling by the end of this year (2014).

Dearborn-Detroit is also supposed to be upgraded (has anyone heard ANYTHING about the West Detroit Connection Track project recently?)

Detroit-Pontiac seems to do OK, Battle Creek-Port Huron usually seems to do OK, and in recent years (with low freight traffic, but still well-maintained track) Porter IN - Grand Rapids seems to run fairly on-time (though not fast).

The main problem for the Michigan services is the section from Porter, IN to Chicago Union Station. (This is also probably the biggest single problem for the Capitol Limited and one of the biggest problems for the Lake Shore Limited. It's also the most congested portion of Norfolk Southern's entire national freight network.) The "South of the Lake" project is supposed to create exclusive passenger tracks in that area -- and there's two empty roadbeds from former railroads for most of the distance! -- but for some reason nobody seems able to commit to building "South of the Lake". The ARRA-funded projects will help some -- Englewood Flyover will remove the worst bottleneck, and it's supposed to be done this year -- but more is needed.

The other problem is Chicago 14th St. yard operations falling down on the job, which has been discussed elsewhere.

The rolling stock is also a bit of a mess, and the new rolling stock should start arriving in 2015 or 2016.

Anyway, at this point if I were talking to a friend who'd said "never again" about Amtrak in Michigan, I might try to make them give it a try in 2017 or 2018, after the current projects are finished and the new rolling stock is running. By then Amtrak may have managed to do something about the "14th Street yard" problems as well.

 

[NE933]

Also, it is an illusion that the NEC is running well. Farrrrrrr from it. Aging, malfunctioning locomotives are succombing to wear and tear like flies, and the cold and ice has their say on aging catenary, by snapping the wires. As well, bad concrete ties and old turnouts cause reduced speeds and longer schedules on a line that sells itself on fast running times.

 

[pere_michel]

Michigan services on time Performance for January 26.5 percent, for the whole twelve months, 26.5 percent. It is not just the weather, it is the entire route. In my experience, the best part of the route was Kalamazoo to AA, although I have puttered through Jackson because the track we were on needed all crossings to be flagged. I have sat for an hour over 94 in Chicago, struggled through NS traffic for hours in Indiana, and waited in Union Station for 14th street to figure things out but I have also waited 40 minutes for a mismanaged meet on Amtrak territory in Michigan and sat in NBU for over an hour just waiting for the train to go from Niles to New Buffalo. Ann Arbor to Dearborn is ridiculously slow and almost impossible to do on schedule. The less said about Dearborn to Royal Oak the better. The entire route is a disaster and one of the worst performing on time routes in Amtrak's system, yet the ridership is still there. The potential is astounding and I can only imagine what the ridership would be like with performance more akin to other successful short corridors. Hopefully, the improvements will be robust enough to really make a difference.

 

[Nathanael]

Michigan services on time Performance for January 26.5 percent, for the whole twelve months, 26.5 percent. It is not just the weather, it is the entire route. In my experience, the best part of the route was Kalamazoo to AA, although I have puttered through Jackson because the track we were on needed all crossings to be flagged.

This is being fixed but will be under construction for 2 years.

I have sat for an hour over 94 in Chicago,

That WILL be fixed by Englewwod Flyover.

struggled through NS traffic for hours in Indiana, and waited in Union Station for 14th street to figure things out

No idea when those will be fixed, sadly.

but I have also waited 40 minutes for a mismanaged meet on Amtrak territory in Michigan and sat in NBU for over an hour just waiting for the train to go from Niles to New Buffalo.

Plan is to add a siding at Porter to allow the handoffs between NS and Amtrak territory to operate more smoothly; also more sidings east of Kzoo should help with meets...

Ann Arbor to Dearborn is ridiculously slow and almost impossible to do on schedule.

Will be fixed by 2017.

The less said about Dearborn to Royal Oak the better.

Anyone know when W Detroit Junction will finally start construction? Sigh.

The entire route is a disaster and one of the worst performing on time routes in Amtrak's system, yet the ridership is still there. The potential is astounding and I can only imagine what the ridership would be like with performance more akin to other successful short corridors. Hopefully, the improvements will be robust enough to really make a difference.

They should, although 14th St Yard delays -> Indiana freight traffic could still ruin the eastbound schedules, and there will be huge problems on the east end if the funded W Detroit Junction work doesn't get done.

 

[afigg]

Anyone know when W Detroit Junction will finally start construction? Sigh.

Did a search and found a recent report that the West Detroit Connection project was to begin construction in 2014. The original 2009 application had a construction period of 1 year, so this project could be done by end of this year or early to mid 2015.

The Indiana Gateway project is finally spending money and the agreements are signed according to the December 31, 2013 Recovery.gov report. So work could begin on those track projects in 2014 when the warmer weather arrives. 2014 looks to be a big year for getting construction underway on so many of the HSIPR grant projects that have on hold waiting on the agreements, engineering design, and EIS approvals. If it wasn't for the 2017 deadline putting pressure on the state DOTs and railroads, I suspect many of the projects would be dragged out into the next decade.

At least, the Englewood Flyover project is making progress. The latest video on Youtube shows almost all the bridge spans in place with foundation work to do at the ends of the flyover.

 

[reppin_the_847]

Anyone know when W Detroit Junction will finally start construction? Sigh.

Did a search and found a recent report that the West Detroit Connection project was to begin construction in 2014. The original 2009 application had a construction period of 1 year, so this project could be done by end of this year or early to mid 2015.

The Indiana Gateway project is finally spending money and the agreements are signed according to the December 31, 2013 Recovery.gov report. So work could begin on those track projects in 2014 when the warmer weather arrives. 2014 looks to be a big year for getting construction underway on so many of the HSIPR grant projects that have on hold waiting on the agreements, engineering design, and EIS approvals. If it wasn't for the 2017 deadline putting pressure on the state DOTs and railroads, I suspect many of the projects would be dragged out into the next decade.

At least, the Englewood Flyover project is making progress. The latest video on Youtube shows almost all the bridge spans in place with foundation work to do at the ends of the flyover.

These changes can't come soon enough. Don't get me wrong, I love trains & I generally enjoy riding Amtrak quite a bit. But the OTP has been beyond awful (even in better weather) like pere_michel_ mentioned. For some folks in West Michigan, it almost makes you wonder whether it's worth it to drive the extra distance to Michigan City (Indiana) and simply ride the South Shore Line train into Chicago for situations in which timing is a bit more important. I'm quite sure that the South Shore Line has excellent OTP and mostly dedicated track in comparison to the Amtrak. What do you guys think?