New 737-900

[Ryan]

But then, none of them can hold a candle to the once on Luftahnsa A380s or 748i's.

Like these guys? Passed through FRA last weekend, amazing planes everywhere.

Sadly, I got hauled off for extra special security screening before boarding and didn't get a chance to get more pictures.

 

[Long Train Runnin']

Yeah the 747-8i is really just a great look bird. I had the pleasure of taking a couple flights on it EWR-FRA and return. Hope to give it a try with Korean at some point as well.

Although I think jis is talking specifically about the in flight maps across the various platforms. I still think the Airbus Tail Cam is a great way to watch a flight as well. I have been a couple 777-300s with outside cameras but have only seen the tail cam on an Airbus.

One of the funnier moments this year for me was in Indonesia I was trying to pick an airline for a quick hop from Jakarta to Surabaya (I took the train back). I came down to Lion Air and Air Asia X Indonesia. I had never heard of Lion Air so I immediately wrote them thinking they would be flying some scrap heaps....then on the bus ride out to my Air Asia jet I see about 20 737-900ERs lined up for Lion Air while I got on a 10+ year old Airbus. Don't judge a book by its cover.

You were probably wise to write Lion Air off but for a different reason their safety record. I remember them crashing a two month old 737-800 a few years back and among the airlines of Asia they've had a higher number of crashes/incidents than I'd be comfortable with.

And United has a had a couple 737-900s slide off the runway in the winter. The chances that you are on a flight that crashes are so low it's not even something that I really even consider. I was thinking purely from a comfort standard.

 

[B757Guy]

Yeah the 747-8i is really just a great look bird. I had the pleasure of taking a couple flights on it EWR-FRA and return. Hope to give it a try with Korean at some point as well.

Although I think jis is talking specifically about the in flight maps across the various platforms. I still think the Airbus Tail Cam is a great way to watch a flight as well. I have been a couple 777-300s with outside cameras but have only seen the tail cam on an Airbus.

One of the funnier moments this year for me was in Indonesia I was trying to pick an airline for a quick hop from Jakarta to Surabaya (I took the train back). I came down to Lion Air and Air Asia X Indonesia. I had never heard of Lion Air so I immediately wrote them thinking they would be flying some scrap heaps....then on the bus ride out to my Air Asia jet I see about 20 737-900ERs lined up for Lion Air while I got on a 10+ year old Airbus. Don't judge a book by its cover.

You were probably wise to write Lion Air off but for a different reason their safety record. I remember them crashing a two month old 737-800 a few years back and among the airlines of Asia they've had a higher number of crashes/incidents than I'd be comfortable with.

And United has a had a couple 737-900s slide off the runway in the winter. The chances that you are on a flight that crashes are so low it's not even something that I really even consider. I was thinking purely from a comfort standard.

United Flight 1977 that slide off the runway was mostly due to crew fatigue. An issue very near and dear to my heart.

 

[jis]

Yeah the 747-8i is really just a great look bird. I had the pleasure of taking a couple flights on it EWR-FRA and return. Hope to give it a try with Korean at some point as well.

Although I think jis is talking specifically about the in flight maps across the various platforms. I still think the Airbus Tail Cam is a great way to watch a flight as well. I have been a couple 777-300s with outside cameras but have only seen the tail cam on an Airbus.

Yes. I like the 380 tail cam a lot too.

The cameras are much more important on the 380 because specially from the upper deck, the windows are more or less useless to look downwards at all, at least in my experience. And typically that is where the people that paid more money are seated

 

[Long Train Runnin']

Yeah the 747-8i is really just a great look bird. I had the pleasure of taking a couple flights on it EWR-FRA and return. Hope to give it a try with Korean at some point as well.

Although I think jis is talking specifically about the in flight maps across the various platforms. I still think the Airbus Tail Cam is a great way to watch a flight as well. I have been a couple 777-300s with outside cameras but have only seen the tail cam on an Airbus.

Yes. I like the 380 tail cam a lot too.

The cameras are much more important on the 380 because specially from the upper deck, the windows are more or less useless to look downwards at all, at least in my experience. And typically that is where the people that paid more money are seated

Yeah I have only done 2 flights on the A380 one upstairs and one downstairs. Although I think a lot of Airlines have put the F cabin downstairs in the nose. I know its that way on KE, AF, QR and QF for sure. The upstairs windows make for a fun view while you taxi.

Although I still think I prefer the feeling of being upstairs on the 747. Thankfully I have had a few segments up there recently. My father and I have both flown upstairs on the 747 at different times. I was glad when recently we were able to fly upstairs together on a CX 747. Especially since they have all now been put out to pasture. Although with the layout on CX its almost impossible to see out the window with the layout they have.

Also to stay on topic...what are peoples thoughts on the new sinks in most of the new Boeings? I noticed it for the first time a few years ago on my first 787 flight and see that is has spread to the 737-900s and the 747-8is. To me it seems a little bit of a germ collection point and also a tremendous waste of technology. Photo attached for reference.

 

[PVD]

There actually is a cockpit window change a few years back. The "eyebrow" windows were eliminated, they no longer had a purpose.

 

[jis]

737s had the eybrow windows until the model 737-600 AFAIR. Starting from 737-700s those were gone.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

seatguru.com has pretty complete info on pitch, airline by airline, for each airline's aircraft type.

Right. But the point that DA is making is that just the seat pitch does not tell the whole story.

Bingo.

And the seat's design can make a difference...the modern seats have very thin backrests to yield more knee room, as compared to the relatively plush seat backs from the early jetliner era. Even without equipment boxes hung below the seats, some seats afford more "shin room" than other's...

100% Correct.

737s had the eybrow windows until the model 737-600 AFAIR. Starting from 737-700s those were gone.

That matches up with my memory as well, although to be perfectly honest I rarely spend much time looking at 737's unless there is literally nothing else to spot. Do you have any experience with the A350 yet?

 

[railiner]

There actually is a cockpit window change a few years back. The "eyebrow" windows were eliminated, they no longer had a purpose.

I wonder if trans-oceanic aircraft still carry sextants anymore, "just-in-case"...and if crews even are taught their use?

Even with all the modern electronic traffic alert systems, having those windows couldn't hurt to enable crew to have better visibility in congested airspace...

 

[jis]

Clearly those that actually do the flying don't care much for those windows.

 

[railiner]

I would like to hear some pilot's opinions on that....

 

[jis]

I have talked to several, and all basically said that even though they are not allowed to use pocket GPS in navigation, they carry one just in case everything else fails. Much easier than trying to get a fix on stars while the plane is probably on the verge of getting out of control. Of course if the entire GPS constellation fails then we are all screwed.

 

[railiner]

Or intense solar flare activity that could interfere? Or is that just sci-fi?

 

[saxman]

The windows serve no purpose. They just make the flight deck hot and too bright in that they just stuff old safety cards in there to block the sun. And I've never ever heard of pilots carrying a sextant around. If you lose navigation, you have bigger problems, plus I can't think of a scenario where that would even be possible.

 

[Bob Dylan]

For those that don't know, saxman is an airline pilot so you can book this info!

 

[B757Guy]

I fly the 757/767, and can say, we don't rely on a sextant/celestial navigation anymore.

 

[railiner]

Okay....but I thought those windows might be useful in congested airspace to increase visibility of other traffic. So I guess the answer is no, if crews find them annoying and cover them up...

 

[jis]

It is TCAS that can keep much better lookout than any human in congested airspace these days anyway.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

If TCAS is alerting then something is seriously wrong with the flight plan, navigation systems, and/or ATC. TCAS is literally the last line of defense when it comes to collision avoidance.

 

[bmjhagen9426]

But when the TCAS instruction is not followed, a mid-air collision is possible (much like what happened in the Uberlingen incident between BTC2937 and DHX611)

 

[jis]

But when the TCAS instruction is not followed, a mid-air collision is possible (much like what happened in the Uberlingen incident between BTC2937 and DHX611)

Of course. Also when the plane handling instructions are not followed a plane can crash. So what is your point?

 

[railiner]

It is TCAS that can keep much better lookout than any human in congested airspace these days anyway.

That's true....might as well not have any windows (or human pilots, either, right?)....

 

[jis]

It is TCAS that can keep much better lookout than any human in congested airspace these days anyway.

That's true....might as well not have any windows (or human pilots, either, right?)....

Huh? Being melodramatic are we?

 

[railiner]

 

[Hotblack Desiato]

737s had the eybrow windows until the model 737-600 AFAIR. Starting from 737-700s those were gone.

The eyebrow windows were removed in 2005, about 8 years after the 737NG entered service. I think most of the NGs were probably retrofitted to remove them.