New/more routes?

[norfolkwesternhenry]

I was talking with CCC1007 on the EB last night, and discussing some routes, and wouldn't it be nice to have two EB's on flipped schedules? so one can come in the morning and one in the evening, with one entire train going to SEA and one whole train goes to PDX, same with the SWC, CZ, LSL, CL, and Cardinal, so Ohio has good service, and so do so of the cities in the night EB: SCD, DTL, FAR, GFK, then second night Libby, SPK, etc etc. I know this would be a lot of money, but it would be a lot if help to people who can't get up at 1:30 AM. This I would guess, would up ridership by 66%-133%, depending on prices, times, etc, etc.

 

[acelafan]

Sure would! But show Amtrak the $$ to do it and convince the host RRs.

 

[Anthony V]

It would be nice, but Amtrak doesn't have the equipment or money for such an action. Before that will happen, we need to elect a congress who would fund Amtrak properly so they can expand frequencies, start more routes, and increase amenities throughout their system.

 

[Eric S]

I was talking with CCC1007 on the EB last night, and discussing some routes, and wouldn't it be nice to have two EB's on flipped schedules? so one can come in the morning and one in the evening, with one entire train going to SEA and one whole train goes to PDX, same with the SWC, CZ, LSL, CL, and Cardinal, so Ohio has good service, and so do so of the cities in the night EB: SCD, DTL, FAR, GFK, then second night Libby, SPK, etc etc. I know this would be a lot of money, but it would be a lot if help to people who can't get up at 1:30 AM. This I would guess, would up ridership by 66%-133%, depending on prices, times, etc, etc.

I think that argument could be made about (nearly?) every long distance route.

 

[west point]

As has been pointed out by others the ATL - Greenville - CLT - Greensboro - Raleigh Population density is second only to the NEC. Add in Norfolk - Richmond - WASH. That is a route that needs at least a 1/2 proportional amount of service. Granted the route does suffer from some hill and mountainous terrain that does not allow a high of speed as the NY - Ohio - CHI tracks in place now. One example of the track speed restrictions is the Palmetto can go NYP - SAV distance in 1-1/2 hours less than the Crescent. Certainly a day train NYP - WASH - RVR - Raleigh - CLT - ATL is called for but will never happen until the gosh awful ATL station situation is changed.

In the mean time improve ATL - CLT. CLT - RGH is being improved for eventual 90 MPH running. Then the RGH - Petersburg "S" line will drop enroute times 1 to 1-1/2 hours. Planned Va DOT improvements WASH - long Bridge - Richmond - Petersburg will cut 45 - 60 minutes. Probably not in my lifetime.

 

[norfolkwesternhenry]

As has been pointed out by others the ATL - Greenville - CLT - Greensboro - Raleigh Population density is second only to the NEC. Add in Norfolk - Richmond - WASH. That is a route that needs at least a 1/2 proportional amount of service. Granted the route does suffer from some hill and mountainous terrain that does not allow a high of speed as the NY - Ohio - CHI tracks in place now. One example of the track speed restrictions is the Palmetto can go NYP - SAV distance in 1-1/2 hours less than the Crescent. Certainly a day train NYP - WASH - RVR - Raleigh - CLT - ATL is called for but will never happen until the gosh awful ATL station situation is changed.

In the mean time improve ATL - CLT. CLT - RGH is being improved for eventual 90 MPH running. Then the RGH - Petersburg "S" line will drop enroute times 1 to 1-1/2 hours. Planned Va DOT improvements WASH - long Bridge - Richmond - Petersburg will cut 45 - 60 minutes. Probably not in my lifetime.

what is wrong with Peachtree station?

 

[KmH]

Of course Amtrak would have to scare up several 10s of millions of additional paying customers too.

 

[Ryan]

what is wrong with Peachtree station?

It's terrible. It's too small, there's no parking, no rental cars. It sits right on the NS mainline, so the stop there clobbers their freight operation for far too long. Totally inadequate for the current single train, and no way in heck that it can support more.

 

[norfolkwesternhenry]

Ah, so a new station, parking lot, siding, what else? (apart from more trains)

 

[west point]

Each Crescent ( 2 a day ) ties up the NS mainline for at least 1-1/2 hours for starters. Sometimes longer if the diamonds at Howell JCT are plugged..

 

[Ryan]

The station is the small dark rectangle in the middle. Where exactly do you propose to put this new station and parking lot?



The whole thing needs to be relocated. That'll cost a pile of money. They're working on it, but it's going to be quite some time.

 

[west point]

Great map of Atlanta present station. Because of the rail layout in Atlanta 2 -3 major problems with various solutions none which by them selves are not perfect.

1. A new location for the station that will be off any main line is a must.

2. NS main from CLT has one split at Howell diamonds going to Macon & Birmingham / Chattanooga. As well the Birmingham / Chattanooga line also routes to Macon.

4. Add into the mix is CSX which <> the south for Augusta / Waycross - Jacksonville / Montgomery - Birmingham.

5/ From Howell jct north CSX goes to Athens - Hamlet /. Knoxville - Cincinnati / Chattanooga - Nashville.

6. Worse still CSX uses the tracks crossing at Howell to be a yard and hump leads for Tillford yard which is happening more often because of longer CSX trains.

7. Not only does the Crescent get delayed at Howell but NS freights as well.

8. To solve the Howell junction mess with flyovers would be a project as complicated as the western corridor projects of Chicago create including the now completed Englewood flyover.

9. Until Howell is fixed any additional Amtrak trains to or thru Atlanta are impossible. As well any commuter rail is a non starter for trains from the north.

So back to a new station off any main line.

11. A solution for trains ATL <> CLT / NEC has seen a proposed station in Chamblee at the old GM plant located off the NS main at I-285.

12. But that does not solve the Howell problem for Midwest - Florida trains that would have to traverse Howell twice <> north either CSX or NS. if the trains backtracked At Chamblee

13. A downtown station that may be built for future commuter rail from south and NS Chattanooga / Birmingham both Amtrak Midwest - Florida solves that route but does nothing for the CLT = NEC trains that would need to back up from downtown station. NS route trains from Chattanooga can go thru Howell with encountering the diamonds.

14 The best solution may be both a station at Chamblee and one downtown. Any bets ?

15. So for Atlanta to solve this chicken and egg problem will take massive amounts of funds for a new Howell and 2 stations. CSX was at Howell first so any rail money would have to come from NS.

Now if readers have not gone to sleep they have the ability to equate this to Chicago create.

 

[norfolkwesternhenry]

The station is the small dark rectangle in the middle. Where exactly do you propose to put this new station and parking lot?

Screen Shot 2016-07-04 at 8.25.53 AM.png

The whole thing needs to be relocated. That'll cost a pile of money. They're working on it, but it's going to be quite some time.

how about move the station back 8', then rebuild the station, add a siding, build an overpass, and borrow some of the parking lot on the other side of the tracks. (for a temporary solution)

 

[AmtrakBlue]

The station is the small dark rectangle in the middle. Where exactly do you propose to put this new station and parking lot?

Screen Shot 2016-07-04 at 8.25.53 AM.png

The whole thing needs to be relocated. That'll cost a pile of money. They're working on it, but it's going to be quite some time.

how about move the station back 8', then rebuild the station, add a siding, build an overpass, and borrow some of the parking lot on the other side of the tracks. (for a temporary solution)

You really think they're going to want to spend all that money on a temporary solution?

 

[west point]

Temporary improvements ? Not a good idea. Siding seen on the SE side too close to station supports to build an ADA platform. Access elevator is on NW side which means all baggage and handicapped passengers have to cross north MT,Station is essentially on third floor so lots of 9 - 10-1/2 inch risers on the steps to platform. Platform width so short that Crescent only can use south MT except in emergency. No freights allowed thru station before - during - or until all baggage is taken upstairs. Inside station available passenger room is only about 2-1/2 times the San Antonia station. Arriving passengers and departing passengers may total almost 500 -500 passengers.

Long range plans are probably to have 4 MT thru this station are which will require demolishing station and building longer span new bridges across I-75. Note station platform extends over I-75.

 

[jis]

Nothing will happen in Atlanta, in the realm of LD trains in the next ten years and maybe even in the next twenty. That seems to be the clear message that is emanating from this thread as the bottom line, since no one will fund cheaper temporary fixes and of course no one will fund the more expensive permanent pipe dreams.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

Each Crescent ( 2 a day ) ties up the NS mainline for at least 1-1/2 hours for starters. Sometimes longer if the diamonds at Howell JCT are plugged..

Would it be possible to enter into a contract where NS pays Amtrak to "suspend" the Crescent? Would that allow Amtrak to use that money and hardware to improve another route instead?

 

[norfolkwesternhenry]

I know they don't want to spend money, nobody does, what about making NS do it, it's their problem, not Amtrak's

 

[Bob Dylan]

I know they don't want to spend money, nobody does, what about making NS do it, it's their problem, not Amtrak's

Doesn't work that way Henry! Class Is are like Socialists, they want someone else to Pay for it!

 

[norfolkwesternhenry]

I know they don't want to spend money, nobody does, what about making NS do it, it's their problem, not Amtrak's

Doesn't work that way Henry! Class Is are like Socialists, they want someone else to Pay for it!

can Amtrak just ram all frieght trains? I am tired of being held up, abused, sent on alternative routes, slow-ordered, etc by the frieght rail roads

 

[SarahZ]

I know they don't want to spend money, nobody does, what about making NS do it, it's their problem, not Amtrak's

Doesn't work that way Henry! Class Is are like Socialists, they want someone else to Pay for it!

can Amtrak just ram all frieght trains? I am tired of being held up, abused, sent on alternative routes, slow-ordered, etc by the frieght rail roads

As in collide with them on purpose?

No.

 

[neroden]

Nothing will happen in Atlanta, in the realm of LD trains in the next ten years and maybe even in the next twenty. That seems to be the clear message that is emanating from this thread as the bottom line, since no one will fund cheaper temporary fixes and of course no one will fund the more expensive permanent pipe dreams.

Fixes in Atlanta will happen when one of the following happens:

(1) Population shifts cause Atlanta (5.6 milion) to completely control the state of Georgia (10.1 million) politically, ending the current dynamic where the state government routinely tries to sabotage Atlanta. Sadly, gerrymandering means it's gonna take at least until after the next census. The change in dynamic will cause Atlanta to offer "railroad trips to the rest of the state" as a deal, and will cause the rest of the state to take the deal.

(2) Gentrification of downtown Atlanta and population increase there accelerates, and Atlanta city government becomes sufficiently rich that that they can start building rail projects on their own (without too much suburban support). After this dynamic is going for a while, the political pro-rail shift will be sufficient to start agitating to get better service for trains going out of town.

Both are politically unlikely before 2020.

 

[west point]

Nerodn you must have spent time in Georgia in the past. Only you would know that at one time the state constitution caused the most one sided rural representation in the legislature. Took the Supreme court's one man one vote ruling to change things. But we still have some vestiges of that system.

For those who don't know each county basically had the same vote in legislature and congress. So cities of Atlanta, Augusta, Savannah, Macon, Columbus had same vote as Brunswick .

 

[Eric S]

Nerodn you must have spent time in Georgia in the past. Only you would know that at one time the state constitution caused the most one sided rural representation in the legislature. Took the Supreme court's one man one vote ruling to change things. But we still have some vestiges of that system.

For those who don't know each county basically had the same vote in legislature and congress. So cities of Atlanta, Augusta, Savannah, Macon, Columbus had same vote as Brunswick .

I believe that was the situation in quite a few other states as well. California, for instance, had one state senator per county - so Los Angeles County, with 6-7 million people in the 1960s, had the same representation in the state senate as Alpine County, which had fewer that 1,000 people.

 

[Philly Amtrak Fan]

Nerodn you must have spent time in Georgia in the past. Only you would know that at one time the state constitution caused the most one sided rural representation in the legislature. Took the Supreme court's one man one vote ruling to change things. But we still have some vestiges of that system.

For those who don't know each county basically had the same vote in legislature and congress. So cities of Atlanta, Augusta, Savannah, Macon, Columbus had same vote as Brunswick .

I believe that was the situation in quite a few other states as well. California, for instance, had one state senator per county - so Los Angeles County, with 6-7 million people in the 1960s, had the same representation in the state senate as Alpine County, which had fewer that 1,000 people.

Other states? How about the US Senate? Two senators per state regardless of population.