frj1983
OBS Chief
OK, I deserved that!
Let me rephrase: I wonder how big a jump it is to build a "Superliner" type car from a "Gallery" type car?
New Passenger Cars
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Let me rephrase: I wonder how big a jump it is to build a "Superliner" type car from a "Gallery" type car?
I definetly think most or all LD trains should be double deckers. It's one thing that distinguishes US trains from other countries. Yes, other countries have double decked cars, but not to the extent. Of course we have big freight trains as well. They should also look sleek and modern.
jamesontheroad
OBS Chief
The real need is with the single level LD trains. I believe there are a lot of Amfleets mothballed right now - adding a high level window might not be possible, but perhaps they could be refurbished and re-engineered into modern sleeper cars to supplement or replace the Viewliners and older dining cars.
*j* :blink:
Actually I believe that there are only 22 or 23 Amfleets in mothballs right now, another 20 or so were pulled out of mothballs and sent to New Orleans. So there isn't a whole lot of Amfleets just currently lying around.
Next, while I suppose that it might be possible and might make some sense to convert a few of them to dining cars, it would not make sense to convert them to sleepers to replace the Viewliners. The reason being is that you'd be replacing the Viewliner cars that are 10 to 11 years old, with Amfleet cars that are 30+ years old. Hardly a good use of money.
G
Guest
Guest
Yes, but considering the popularity and position of US trains versus that of those is Europe, it that necessarily a good thing?
gyuri_ft
Service Attendant
- Joined
- Nov 16, 2002
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I can't agree more with you. What we really need is Bombardier-Ammendorf wide-profile (similar to streamliners of past) cars. They were built to the highest standard in Germany. There are literally thousands of them and they are running in good part of Asia and almost everywhere in CIS. Ammendorf was closed a year ago - how sad - because they had no orders anymore (too expensive for cost-sensitive market in Russia or China where own cars are built now). But these Ammendorfs are very well built, very American-like and most people (not me, to be honest) like them a lot.
Perhaps these can be seen better as models (TT, 1:120) - there are countless railfan pictures of these, but the models are showing the features perhaps better.
Sleeping car:
Dining car:
Luggage storage car/crew car:
Amtrak's FY 2005-2009 Amtrak Strategic Plan called for "funding to begin design of replacement equipment begins in FY 09 (see New Equipment Acquisition)." (reference: page 36.)
The "New Equipment Acquistion" page, though, only lists a project to replace diners and crew dorms with cars built on the Viewliner shell. Draw your own conclusions.
The "New Equipment Acquistion" page, though, only lists a project to replace diners and crew dorms with cars built on the Viewliner shell. Draw your own conclusions.
If they could get the blue prints to those classic budd cars, and then do modern wiriings, etch, they would have the perfect cars. The windows on the budd cars are big. The seats are way more comfortable than the ones that they now put in horizon and view liner cars.
If they built long distance coaches on the Amfleet II model that would bo OK too.
If they built long distance coaches on the Amfleet II model that would bo OK too.
Steve,
Bombardier owns the rights to cars made by Budd and P-S. They've got all the engineering drawings.
There's one other problem: FRA has new crash standards in light of the Metrolink accident. Think of it like this: all railroad cars must be SUVs. They cannot be sedans, however much it might make sense from an economic POV.
Bombardier owns the rights to cars made by Budd and P-S. They've got all the engineering drawings.
There's one other problem: FRA has new crash standards in light of the Metrolink accident. Think of it like this: all railroad cars must be SUVs. They cannot be sedans, however much it might make sense from an economic POV.
I did not know that. That is interesting. I never thought that the budd cars were not safe. I am sure that they could make improvements too them as much as with any other equipment. I know the safety issue has kept Amtrak from adopting european technology in the past. Thus the Talgos may not ever be used any place else which is a shame. Those are nice trains.
Actually the only reason that the Talgo's don't meet current standards, is because they were ordered, built, and and I think delivered before the current standards for crash strength were established. I believe, I'm not positive, but I do believe that I recall reading an article once that said that the new designs from Talgo could easily be adapted to meet the current FRA safety standards.
So I don't believe that is the problem as far as getting more Talgo equipment for Amtrak. The problem remains, who's going to pay for it?
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Exactly.
Any discussion of new equipment needs to have that caveat. We can talk about them here as much as we like, but we need someone or some entity to cough up the $3 million per car it will take. (I do think I'm in the ballpark here. If not, help me with some real-world numbers.)
'nite, all.
Any discussion of new equipment needs to have that caveat. We can talk about them here as much as we like, but we need someone or some entity to cough up the $3 million per car it will take. (I do think I'm in the ballpark here. If not, help me with some real-world numbers.)
'nite, all.
battalion51
Engineer
I believe it's more in the $2 million range with a Motive costing about $3 million. But again I also could be wrong.
A
amtrakrulez
Guest
What about the Amfleets(both Is and IIs)? Do they need to be replaced as much as the Superliners?
Well they certainly need some work, and as I mentioned above the AMF I's are now 30 years old, so they don't have too many more years on their wheels left. There might not be desperate need to replace them right now, but they need to get started looking soon! Especially the way these things get funded.
battalion51
Engineer
I believe there has been much more care given to the Amfleets considering the rebuild programs that have occured over the past few years. It seems as though the biggest problem hindering the fleet is continuing air conditioning problems. The first of the cars that will need replacing will be the ex-Metroliner fleet that debuted nearly forty years ago.
frj1983
OBS Chief
Wow, I hadn't even thought of the Metroliner cars. At 40 years old I'm sure thay have seen a lot of miles and will soon need to be replaced. Does anyone know how many of these are still running?
battalion51
Engineer
A fair number of the cars are still in use as Club Cafes, and a great deal of them serve today as cab cars on the Springfield Shuttles and Keystone service. I can say that the Cab Cars (while many have been overhauled) are not the most comfortable things in the world for the Engineers that have to run them. It'd be great if they could get cab cars that have cabs similar to Bombardier's Bi-Levels.
Amtrak Kid
Service Attendant
amtrak also has the michigan coaches in the 44550-7 series, they're in storage as far as i know at Beech Grove.
Corey
Corey
frj1983
OBS Chief
Amtrak Kid,
Are the cars you mention Cab control type cars? Are they also old metroliners as well?
Just curious.
They are indeed old Metroliner coaches, but they are not cab control cars.
And Amtrak no longer carries those cars on its active roster.
battalion51
Engineer
The Michigan Cars were converted cab cars that became standard coaches.
Dutchrailnut
Conductor
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Thanks Dutch.
I had wondered why the Pennsy would order 31 coaches for Metroliner service and make every single one of them a cab car. That seemed like an excessive number of cab cars, especially considering the inspections and maintenance that would be required. I would have figured on at least some of them being straight coaches.
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Uh oh, better send 'em all to rot alongside these trains in a Delaware storage yard!
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