No more printed system timetables

[Devil's Advocate]

Not a debate you're likely to win with the employee down at the local print shop.

The way American companies are structured these days the front line employee has virtually no power to make any timely decisions or perform any practical action of their own free will. I once tried to add some air to a tire at a petrol station. The machine accepted my coins but refused to do anything else. I calmly inquired about collecting a refund for lack of service but it turned out that only the regional manager who showed up once or twice a month had the authority to process even a four quarter inflation refund.

 

[trainman74]

As to the cost...I assume the quoted price was for the entire document. You could certainly lessen the cost by skipping all the non-timetable pages. Of the 141 page PDF of the current timetable, only 89 pages include actual timetables. Of those, approximately 20 were pages for Thruway buses or non-Amtrak service providers. So if you just want to print the rail timetables, you're really looking at just under half the 141 page document. That should cut down the cost whether printing at home or at a commercial location.

The price niemi24s was quoted seems to have been for a licensed copy of commercial copyrighted material. I'm sure it would be a lot cheaper if they treated it as a non-commercial document.

 

[AmtrakBlue]

As to the cost...I assume the quoted price was for the entire document. You could certainly lessen the cost by skipping all the non-timetable pages. Of the 141 page PDF of the current timetable, only 89 pages include actual timetables. Of those, approximately 20 were pages for Thruway buses or non-Amtrak service providers. So if you just want to print the rail timetables, you're really looking at just under half the 141 page document. That should cut down the cost whether printing at home or at a commercial location.

The price niemi24s was quoted seems to have been for a licensed copy of commercial copyrighted material. I'm sure it would be a lot cheaper if they treated it as a non-commercial document.

The price may also include binding and a cover. :unsure:

 

[niemi24s]

Ah, now I see we've gotten to the stage of fine-tuning the printing job and taking guesses on what it will or won't do to the cost of the document. This would, no doubt, drag this thread out another useless page or two until folks here get off their duffs and actually price out the job on the Office Whatever website: http://www.officedepot.com/a/copy-and-print/presentations/

Oddly enough, the website prices match the prices at the counter in the store. I just hope posting the link to that website doesn't result in a torrent of posts about what I really need, what can be eliminated from the print job, etc, etc, ad nauseam.

 

[fairviewroad]

Ah, now I see we've gotten to the stage of fine-tuning the printing job and taking guesses on what it will or won't do to the cost of the document.

Hey, we're here to serve!

Anywho, I can't speak for others on here but I suspect I'm not the only one who thought it was a tad hyperbolic to suggest that it would cost $89 to print out a paper copy of the Amtrak timetable. I mean, I'm sure it's possible to pay that much. But that doesn't mean that's how much it HAS to cost. For instance, you can go to this website and have it mailed to you for as little as $19 (including shipping). There may be even cheaper options out there.

 

[niemi24s]

But that $19 may be for paperback book size, making for a difficult read. As letter size is about 2X paperback book size, I'm thinking the cost might be about $14.40 X 1.41 X 2 ≈ $41 or maybe $50 with shipping. But that's still a lot cheaper than Office Max/Depot. And that's just a guess, because with my limited PC skills I can't get the Amtrak pdf to my PC so I can send it to them for a better estimate.

But thanks for the link - never dawned on me there'd be such a service available.

[edit] Just figured out how to download a pdf. It would be $24.06 printed letter size and paperback bound plus shipping - maybe $33 and about 1/3 the cost of Office Max. Such a deal!

 

[niemi24s]

And, finally, here's the answer straight from the horse's mouth:

 

[Ryan]

The fact that you'll put more faith in a random CSR (who collectively give mutually exclusive answers with depressing frequency) over the word of several long-established posters that actually work for Amtrak and are in positions to know of the information firsthand (as opposed to the thirdhand, occasionally correct, info from a CSR) is pretty amusing.

Glad you've caught up to where we were a week ago.

 

[TinCan782]

I ordered a paper time table earlier in the week...it arrived today, Saturday 4/30.

https://www.amtrak.com/order-contact-amtrak-publications

 

[keelhauled]

The fact that you'll put more faith in a random CSR (who collectively give mutually exclusive answers with depressing frequency) over the word of several long-established posters that actually work for Amtrak and are in positions to know of the information firsthand (as opposed to the thirdhand, occasionally correct, info from a CSR) is pretty amusing.

Glad you've caught up to where we were a week ago.

The fact that anonymous internet posters give more accurate and timely information than Amtrak's customer-facing employees is also amusing, except in a pathetic sort of way.

 

[CCC1007]

The fact that you'll put more faith in a random CSR (who collectively give mutually exclusive answers with depressing frequency) over the word of several long-established posters that actually work for Amtrak and are in positions to know of the information firsthand (as opposed to the thirdhand, occasionally correct, info from a CSR) is pretty amusing.

Glad you've caught up to where we were a week ago.

The fact that anonymous internet posters give more accurate and timely information than Amtrak's customer-facing employees is also amusing, except in a pathetic sort of way.

Anonymous? You do realize that there are records publicly available about what was posted by each member of this forum, when the post occurred, and that these records remove most levels of anonymity right?

 

[ScouseAndy]

Ofcourse the harder they make for passengers to know what time their train is due in the less people will realise that the train is late

 

[Ryan]

The fact that you'll put more faith in a random CSR (who collectively give mutually exclusive answers with depressing frequency) over the word of several long-established posters that actually work for Amtrak and are in positions to know of the information firsthand (as opposed to the thirdhand, occasionally correct, info from a CSR) is pretty amusing.

Glad you've caught up to where we were a week ago.

The fact that anonymous internet posters give more accurate and timely information than Amtrak's customer-facing employees is also amusing, except in a pathetic sort of way.

Anonymous? You do realize that there are records publicly available about what was posted by each member of this forum, when the post occurred, and that these records remove most levels of anonymity right?

Indeed.

I'm also not sure why the actual doers knowing more than people on the other side of the country that get the info thirdhand is considered "pathetic". It's just a basic fact of life.

 

[JayPea]

To further derail the thread (pun entirely intended) I should think any poster who posts as "Ryan" isn't exactly going to be exactly anonymous.

 

[pennyk]

PLEASE TRY TO KEEP THE DISCUSSION ON TOPIC AND AVOID ANY SNIPING AND/OR PERSONAL ATTACKS. THANK YOU.

 

[jis]

Ofcourse the harder they make for passengers to know what time their train is due in the less people will realise that the train is late

As we know, the Printed National Timetable has never been the best source of information on what schedule a train is operating on on any particular day. It just gives a reasonable rough idea which needs to be verified with the actual current time table.

 

[keelhauled]

The fact that you'll put more faith in a random CSR (who collectively give mutually exclusive answers with depressing frequency) over the word of several long-established posters that actually work for Amtrak and are in positions to know of the information firsthand (as opposed to the thirdhand, occasionally correct, info from a CSR) is pretty amusing.

Glad you've caught up to where we were a week ago.

The fact that anonymous internet posters give more accurate and timely information than Amtrak's customer-facing employees is also amusing, except in a pathetic sort of way.

Anonymous? You do realize that there are records publicly available about what was posted by each member of this forum, when the post occurred, and that these records remove most levels of anonymity right?

Indeed.

I'm also not sure why the actual doers knowing more than people on the other side of the country that get the info thirdhand is considered "pathetic". It's just a basic fact of life.

Well perhaps we have different definitions of "anonymous." Someone posting under a screen name can't be held accountable like a customer service rep can (or should be). It does not escape me that in many circumstances that can be an advantage, but in any case it's not entirely my point either. I also don't see how distance is a factor, it stopped being an obstacle to communication back when the telephone was invented. Obviously the information is out there, what Amtrak seems consistently unable to do is to pass it on to their customers in general. While I appreciate getting some amount of inside information and explanation here as much as anyone else, you can't say that it's any help at all for the vast majority of people traveling on Amtrak, who don't frequent online forums and depend on Amtrak representatives to communicate with them. It's a systemic problem, the timetable is just an example. For example, the Lake Shore Limited Boston cars, or lack thereof--it's been going on for what, close to year now, and supposedly won't come back until October, but good luck trying to figure that out from Amtrak.com, which makes no mention of it on the LSL's route page, or timetable, or the service alerts. All the customer knows is that for some reason they're forced to book a "transfer" at Albany, without any other explanation. It goes both ways too. They start business class on some long distance trains, but they don't advertise it at all, and with wild inconsistency bother to mention it on their website--the Crescent has a notice about it on the route page and a service alert, but the Cardinal doesn't, only a mention of a business class seat as an accommodation offered. And neither schedule has the little business class icon on it. God help the poor person who tries to make heads or tails of it. Explaining what services a company offers seems like basic stuff, so why Amtrak is painfully unable to do so with any kind of pattern is beyond me.

 

[CHamilton]

We heard at the RailPAC conference last weekend that Amtrak is seriously looking into bring back the printed national timetable, probably as a paid offering. Apparently they were quite surprised by the number of complaints they got when it was discontinued. No details yet, but progress seems to be being made.

 

[tricia]

We heard at the RailPAC conference last weekend that Amtrak is seriously looking into bring back the printed national timetable, probably as a paid offering. Apparently they were quite surprised by the number of complaints they got when it was discontinued. No details yet, but progress seems to be being made.

Yay! If it turns out to be a paid offering, I hope they'll at least offer system MAPS for free. Very useful tool for converting first-time riders to regular customers.

 

[Bob Dylan]

Good idea, the old Rail Guides were for Sale ( and are now Collectors items) so charging a nominal fee that would cover costs seems the ideal way to go!

Thanks for sharing the info Charlie!

 

[jis]

Amtrak's timetable is not that big and does not really change as drastically and as often as some others do. Most really seriously large rail systems have done away with printed timetables mainly because they became exceedingly unwieldy. Instead some publish printed abstract timetables of only major trains on major routes, and then publish local or route specific timetables sometimes in printed form. But they all have excellent access to schedules via mobile devices.

 

[neroden]

We heard at the RailPAC conference last weekend that Amtrak is seriously looking into bring back the printed national timetable, probably as a paid offering. Apparently they were quite surprised by the number of complaints they got when it was discontinued. No details yet, but progress seems to be being made.

I would certainly pay a reasonable price for it. Not more than $20. (Plus shipping.)

P.S. I'm totally down with Amtrak making a small profit on these. It goes to fund the trains. Sometimes instead of cost-cutting, it's worth thinking about revenue-raising... like they did with bike service, like they did with pet service...

 

[dlagrua]

On the printed vs online debate; I like the paper timetables better. Much faster to access and easier to read.as you have everything available in a condensed form. If you use your smartphone the type is small, you must call up the URL (or look it up) wait for pages to load and you don't know whats on the next page until you pull it up. If you are inside some buildings or at a remote location good luck finding a data or WiFi connection. The reason for eliminating the system timetable is cost. Its just another "cut towards profitability" move instituted during the Boardman years.

If Amtrak is that concerned with cost then just give them out upon request to Amtrak Passengers. If you rode Amtrak in 2015, you then get a new system timetable or pay a couple of bucks for it.

 

[Mystic River Dragon]

I, too, like the printed timetables better. If I know where I am starting and ending, I am fine with going into the Amtrak website and looking up the best train and getting my ticket online. But if I want several options, I would like to see them all at once in a book.

The printed timetable also has other uses, especially for infrequent travelers or those not familiar with trains:

The timetable allows you to try different routes just by turning pages and plan an adventure.

The photos make you feel like train travel is something enjoyable and more than just transportation.

The photos of places advertised show you some places you might not have thought of going.

You can pick up a couple of printed timetables so that you can give one away to a friend who says "I've been thinking about taking the train but don't know where to start."

In other words, when Amtrak dumped the printed timetable, they lost a good marketing tool.

And yes, I'd be willing to pay a few dollars for it, and I would recycle it when the next one came out.

 

[jis]

I actually have physical copies of many years worth of printed Amtrak National Timetables.

I also have sporadic copies of the All India Bradshaw, which alas, is not published anymore. I also have many copies of the American Official Rail Guide upto and including 1971, though many of them are in PDF rather than in print.