P-40 Condition slowly deteriorating

[battalion51]

It was a little over a year ago in August of 2002 when I saw Amtrak P-40 809 in New Haven at the head of a shuttle from New Haven to Springfield. Ten months later I saw the same engine in Wilmington as a part of the Amtrak program to store P-40's in this time of too much power. Today I learned that the 809's fate has gotten much worse. Sources in Wilmington tell me the 809 has been heavily vandalized, with graffiti all over the exterior, the interior of the cab with no rubberized surface, no seat cushions, etc. I think it's pretty sad that Mr. Gunn's program has turned this beautiful engine (only 10 years old) from the leader of a train, to a hunk of junk sitting on a track out of sight in Delaware.

 

[Viewliner]

That poor P-40, its terrible that there are people who do this. I only can hope the other P-40s and cars (Especially 2300) don't suffer the same fate.

 

[P40Power]

It was bad enough seeing all those ex-metroliner cars graffitied up in pictures at Wilmington, now its happening to perfectly good P40s . . . what a shame Hopefully they didnt get to my 803, because then I will be really ticked! :angry:

 

[battalion51]

I didn't see 803 while in Wilmington. It's entirely possible that it's in Chicago, Ivy City, or Albany. I mean some engines are still working, right now 824 is haulin AOE, 830's been seen workin VRE. You just never know with Amtrak.

 

[Amfleet]

A little chain link fencing and barbed wire around major storage yards and maintenance would solve these vandalizing problems.

 

[AlanB]

A little chain link fencing and barbed wire around major storage yards and maintenance would solve these vandalizing problems.

Not for long, sadly.

These clowns with nothing better to do than wreck stuff that doesn't belong to them, will just cut the new fence. :angry: Around here the MTA is forever replacing and/or relinking fences.

The problem is that the laws are just too liberal for this type of crime. While I'm not sure that cutting off their hand or caning them is the right idea, I do think that a year or two in jail would go a long way towards cutting down this type of nonsense. Right now most of these kids get community service.

 

[National Limited]

Please forgive my ignorance. Is there someone who could post a pic or provide a link to a picture of a P-40? Also, what has David Gunn done to encourage the poor condition of this unit?

 

[P40Power]

It was indirectly encouraged by him in a way. His decision to place these units in storage have put them in a position to be subjected to vandalism, and weathering.

 

[battalion51]

Your point is exactly what I meant P40. While I do not hold Mr. Gunn directly responsible for the vandilism (he's not the one tagging them) it is his program that has removed the engines from service, and inn effect flushed millions of dollars down the tube. Amtrak should have looked at leasing the units to other comapnies before just storing them. Several years ago as the F-40's were being replaced Amtrak leased several F-40's to NS for use on their Triple Crown trains, this is what SHOULD have happened.

 

[tp49]

Do we know that Mr. Gunn did not try to lease these units to other roads before putting them into storage and that there was little or no interest in them? I'm sure he and his staff did their due dilligence prior to making the decision to mothball these units probably making the determination that to lease them out would not be as cost effective as placing them into storage.

 

[battalion51]

Well when a unit is put into storage there is no income coming in on the unit, while you must still pay the loan on it. The P-40's likely could have been leased to someone, somewhere.

 

[tp49]

My next question would be is to whom would these locomotives be attractive to. If I'm not mistaking these were specifically designed and built for long haul passenger routes, which would make them less attractive to commuter operations. Also, most commuter operations already have particular equipment preferences and specs so with the exception possibly of MNCRR (and even then that would be an extreme stretch as they have P-32's) who would want the P-40's.

 

[Amfleet]

My next question would be is to whom would these locomotives be attractive to. If I'm not mistaking these were specifically designed and built for long haul passenger routes, which would make them less attractive to commuter operations. Also, most commuter operations already have particular equipment preferences and specs so with the exception possibly of MNCRR (and even then that would be an extreme stretch as they have P-32's) who would want the P-40's.

No, not always. Before the GE P-32s, P-40s, and P-42s a lot of commuter railroads were using EMD F-40s, just as Amtrak was using for their long distance train. Many commuter operations either still have their F-40s or have upgraded to newer EMD units. I'm sure the GE units could be used in commuter service too, but their reliability in Amtrak service has proven to be poor so the money is not worth the product.

 

[P40Power]

MBTA tried out 815 in commuter service in 94 to see if they liked it, well there were no orders for any so Id imagine either they didnt like it, or didnt have the funds for new units.

P40s are quicker accelerating then P42s, but not quick enough to be in commuter service.

 

[Viewliner]

Isn't GM selling EMD? Too bad the P-40's can't run in commuter service, would be nice to see one of those with a set of Comet IV's and Comet V's?

 

[Amfleet]

Isn't GM selling EMD? Too bad the P-40's can't run in commuter service, would be nice to see one of those with a set of Comet IV's and Comet V's?

Actually if I remember correctly isn't NJ Transit buying some new diesel units? What manufacturer is making those?

 

[Viewliner]

Isn't GM selling EMD?  Too bad the P-40's can't run in commuter service, would be nice to see one of those with a set of Comet IV's and Comet V's?

Actually if I remember correctly isn't NJ Transit buying some new diesel units? What manufacturer is making those?

Yes, the PL42AC's which are being made by Alstom (Components and Design), and EMD (Diesel Engine and Power Systems). They have 4200 hp, and are the first new diesels for NJ Transit since 1980.

For more info and Pictures see Trains Magazine, August 2003, Page 22. Includes Picture.