Pacific Parlor Car

Amtrak Unlimited Discussion Forum

Help Support Amtrak Unlimited Discussion Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
Status
Not open for further replies.

Amfleet Fan

Service Attendant
Joined
Jul 21, 2003
Messages
117
I have pictures of the upper and lower levels of the Pacific Parlor car for those interested.

I'd like to post them on this thread if someone can explain how and/or where to place them.

Thanks
 
This forum does not provide a way to upload pictures. You can only link to pictures the exist elsewhere on the Internet. So unless you have your own website to post the pictures to, then you will sadly be unable to show us your pictures. :(
 
Too bad that coach passengers couldn't be allowed to use the Pacific Parlour cars. Perhaps Amtrak could charge coach passengers $3, $5 or such, perhaps depending for how long or how far, for the privilege of sitting in and using some of the enmities in the car. Same thing with Metro lounges and such.

VIA could do that for its lounge, dome cars during the times it allows only first class passengers to use them. Just because a person is poor and cash strapped, doesn't mean he doesn't want to be able to use the facilities, especially dome cars.
 
steve_relei said:
Too bad that coach passengers couldn't be allowed to use the Pacific Parlour cars. Perhaps Amtrak could charge coach passengers $3, $5 or such, perhaps depending for how long or how far, for the privilege of sitting in and using some of the enmities in the car. Same thing with Metro lounges and such.
VIA could do that for its lounge, dome cars during the times it allows only first class passengers to use them. Just because a person is poor and cash strapped, doesn't mean he doesn't want to be able to use the facilities, especially dome cars.
As a Coach and Sleeping Car rider, I have to disagree. The Pacific Parlor Car, Metroplatian Lounge, and Club Acela are all perks for First Class passengers. These passengers pay up and beyond $100 above Coach fares to use these special facilities, and charging Coach passengers just a few bucks doesn't seem fair. It would also become a problem when things get overcrowded. Now for Amtrak Reward costumers, you can redeem points for passes to the Club Acela Lounges, but you can't just pay money. Coach passengers don't get it all to bad either. On the Coast Starlight they have a whole Sightseer Lounge and as for major stations, most waiting areas are nice (except Chicago is a bit cowded, but so is the Metrol Lounge).
 
Amfleet said:
steve_relei said:
Too bad that coach passengers couldn't be allowed to use the Pacific Parlour cars. Perhaps Amtrak could charge coach passengers $3, $5 or such, perhaps depending for how long or how far,  for the privilege of sitting in and using some of the enmities in the car. Same thing with Metro lounges and such.
VIA could do that for its lounge, dome cars during the times it allows only first class passengers to use them. Just because a person is poor and cash strapped, doesn't mean he doesn't want to be able to use the facilities, especially dome cars.
As a Coach and Sleeping Car rider, I have to disagree. The Pacific Parlor Car, Metroplatian Lounge, and Club Acela are all perks for First Class passengers. These passengers pay up and beyond $100 above Coach fares to use these special facilities, and charging Coach passengers just a few bucks doesn't seem fair. It would also become a problem when things get overcrowded. Now for Amtrak Reward costumers, you can redeem points for passes to the Club Acela Lounges, but you can't just pay money. Coach passengers don't get it all to bad either. On the Coast Starlight they have a whole Sightseer Lounge and as for major stations, most waiting areas are nice (except Chicago is a bit cowded, but so is the Metrol Lounge).
I would have to agree with amfleet on this one. I think that it just adds to the "prestigue", of being a first class passenger. I think it is always nice to be able to sit in a private car, so to speak.
 
I'm a hard-core rail fan, but I don't have all the money that other people have, which I don't mind. I am also a fairly nice, amiable guy, so I don't think I would be too much in the way. People pay a lot of money so they can have a sleeper--which is certainly worth the price. Not everyone can afford it. What about at night, when everyone is asleep? It also bugs me in Canada on the Skeena that during peak times only first-class passengers can use the dome car--on such a scenic route. I love dome cars. I just may not have enough money for sleeping accommodations. Am I less interested in a memorable trip, do they love the train and the ride more than I do, just because they have more money than I do? Again, what about at night or early morning when most people are asleep? And not using the dome car?

It's like a fancy hotel. I may not have the money to stay in it, but I could probably afford to have dinner or a drink there. Same thing on a train.
 
I certainly would not want to take away from someone else's enjoyment in travel.

Sleeping car accommodations, paror cars, dome cars, dining cars, services rendered onboard, locomotives, mail--all these and more are part of the mystic of travling by train. The famous railfan E.B. Whiteaker (whatever the proper spelling of his name is. Longtime railfans will know who he was) used to ride the 20th Century Limited from NYC to Albany just to get a haircut. Now, he could get a haircut anywhere, but it was most special for him onboard the train. That's how powerful a mystic train travel can be.

The Pacific Parlour Car does have a few special features that the usual Superliner lounge does not have. For one, history. Most Pacific Parlour Cars are ex-Santa Fe Hi-level cars that were at one time a part of the famous El Capitan trains. I got to ride in one a long time ago on Amtrak's Southwest Chief. There is a certain mystic in riding in a car that has so much history to it. Not as famous as the Super Chief, but famous in its own way.

The reason Amtrak has so many services for first class passengers is to entice them to spend more money on sleeping car accommodations--of various kinds. Certainly, people paying that much money are entitled to some special things. If Amtrak were to charge coach passengers for the passage and use of the Parlour Car, I don't think it would diminish othr passengers' enjoyment that much. If Amtrak charged for it, many people would turn away (especially children); most people will not pay extra just to go into the car. If they did, they would pay because they really would want to be there and behave themselves. People would still come in, buy drinks and or food and leave tips for the bartender--it's all still money.

It's like being in a fancy hotel (like the St. Francis or Fairmont in San Francisco or the Empress in Victoria--they are tourists attractions as well as famous, luxurious places to stay). Many people cannot afford to spend a night, but they will come in and have dinner, Sunday brunch, afternoon tea, a nightcap, see a performance in a nightclub, or such; they can enjoy themselves and make use of the services, and I don't think it diminishes the enjoyment of the stay=the-night guests. If fact, it adds to the atmosphere and mystic of these places--for everyone. Also, when people attend such things, they usually dress up and are on their best behavior.

Same thing with a first class parlour, dome, or lounge area.

On the Starlight, I know more about the train, its contents, and the countryside through which it travels than most, if not everyone, in the sleepers (and coaches). I probably know more than the train crew--they are too busy with their jobs onboard to pay much attention to what's going on outside the window, except of course the engineer in the locomotive. I familiar with the route, sights along the way, the history of the route, the cities and towns along the way (their histories), famous trains that once plied the rails. Even in the dark, I know the route.

I have seen photos of people onboard the expensive Mountaineer in Canada, for example, doing everything but looking out the window and enjoying the spectacular scenery through which they are passing. Just because people have a lot of money--more money than I do, it doesn't mean they appreciate the trip, the scenery, or the train, or know about it more than I do. I am not anti-rich, by any means. These are things that I have noticed.

I like seeing the train and the passing scenery from different points of view and perspectives (I am inspired by Impressionist artists, art and art techniques, one of which is capturing the same scene from different times of the day, perspectives, colors, etc.). The Parlour Car is six cars from the locomotives: I am closer to the motive power and can look back and see more of thet rain behind, especially going around curves. The diner is next. I can enjoy they train ride and the scenery while enjoying a fine meal from various viewpoints depending on where and which way I am facing. The lounge car is next (eighth car from the locomotives) and has its own high points. The last car of the train (a coach) allows one to see the entire train up front (rounding curves), and I can look out the rear window and what the track and scenery recede in the background, as the train leaves it behind.

As I intimated before, I am bothered by VIA Rail's policy of the Skeena (from Edmonton to Prince Rupert) of allowing only first-class passengers to use the dome car (coach passengers can use the lounge area and snack service but not the dome seats) during the peak travel season (summer). VIA Rail had this policy for The Canadian for a while. How many of those people are actually sitting there and enjoying the scenery (as opposed to talking, reading, sleeping) and the train or care anything about them? There are two of the most scenic train rides in the world. Under the CP, CN, and early VIA, dome seats were open to coach passengers as well as those in sleeping accommodations. This was true on the California Zephyr, North Coast Limited, UP's City trains. True, the GN's great dome cars were reserved for first-class passengers, but coach passengers had their own dome cars to use. They were not completely left without panoramic viewing seats.
 
Steve,

I hear what you are saying and to a large extent you are right. It really is unfair that a coach passenger can't have the option of sitting in the Parlor Car.

I think however that even if Amtrak wanted to consider some sort of deal whereby a coach passenger could pay a fee, there are a few problems that will crop up. The first is quite simply the fact that Amtrak would probably have to limit how many of those special tickets they sold. Otherwise you might possibly end up with no room in the car for the sleeping car guests.

Next you now need some type of special ticket or wrist band for each passenger using the car, otherwise the attendant won't know if you are entitled to be there. You are also likely to get some coach passengers who just don't understand why they can't go into the car. Even worse, try explaining to them why they car is sold out.

So there are complications with trying to do this. That's not to say that Amtrak perhaps shouldn't try, but in the current climate with no funding, I think that it's unlikely.

Sadly it's too bad that there simply aren't more of those cars available to Amtrak, such that they could have two per train. One for sleeping car passengers (with a few extra amenities, like wine tasting), and one for coach passengers where you pay for your drinks.
 
Think I figured out how to post those pictures.

These were taken by a good friend who works for Amtrak.

They show the upper and lower level of the Pacific Parlour Car.

The last two pictures are from Heritage Diner 8509.

Enjoy.

By the way, as you can probably tell I'm new to these forums. Just wanted to say everyone seems really nice and helpful here.

Just to clarify about my forum name, the Amfleet coach is my favorite car running today. Mostly because it's a Budd Product and since I'm 25, I've grown up with the Amfleets. But I'd prefer a Heritage Coach/Lounge anyday.

3f39aecb27870f12.jpg


3f39aeec27f6329a.jpg


3f39af1e28ae4d02.jpg


3f39af392911e6c6.jpg
 
Most Pacific Parlour Cars are ex-Santa Fe Hi-level cars that were at one time a part of the famous El Capitan trains.
Steve, all Pacific Parlour Cars are former El Cap Hi-Level Lounges, refurbished.

Here's a great link on Santa Fe Hi-Level history and current roster info:

http://members.tripod.com/NoCalDriveIn/hilev.htm

One of the old ATSF coaches assigned to the Heartland Flyer burned up this summer.

Regarding usage of the Pacific Parlor Car, and the Metropolitan Lounges, I have to agree with P-42 and Amfleet, re: the prestige of First Class. Those "perks" aren't cheap, but (to me) are well worth the cost. One thing, Steve, we can't put a price on, and that's your zeal for the intricacies of rail travel and its history. That zeal is evident in your post and is commendable.
 
The reason I said "most" Pacific Parlour Cars are ex-Santa Fe highlevel cars is that I have seen a few occasions when regular Superliner lounges were substituted and used as Parlour Cars on the Starlight.

This is another example that I pay attention to what goes on with Amtrak, the Coast Starlight, passenger train travel--both historic and present with an eye on tae future.

If I could afford it I would love to travel by first class; I've always wanted to travel by sleeping car. They have gotten a bit too expensive. Amtrak lists about $200 for a sleeper even between Portland and Salem (OR). I have used Amtrak Cascades Business Class between Portland and Seattle. It is a bit more reasonable in price--only $12 (each way) above coach fare. It was worth it. I got $3 off food/drink purchase in the Bistro, it was quieter, and I think the earphones for the movies were free.

I have traveled first class in Europe on the TGV, which was allowed by my railpass. The ride from Florence to Paris was the first time I slept in a berth on a train, but I still had to pay extra for it, it wasn't covered by my pass. Also, it was the only leg of the trip that was at night. I usually made sure that all my train trips were in daylight so I could enjoy the scenery.

One more thing about first class service and being able to use some facilities by coach passengers: I remember on the North Coast Hiawatha, the train often had former NP dome/sleepers. Even though I was a coach passenger, I was allowed to sit in the dome car (of the sleeper/dome). Sometimes the train would have a dome observation (like the California Zephyr had, some were from that famous train, weren't coach passengers allowed to use the dome and observation sections on that train too when it was operated by the private railroads?). Likewise, coach passengers were allowed to use both the dome and observation sections.
 
As for sleeper class fare, I took an advantage of Amtrak's 1-2-3 promotion several years ago. We, 3 passengers, paid for two regular bedrooms at a regular price while #1 paid full passenger fare, #2 paid 1/2 of passenger fare and #3 got free! We add them up and split equally. So that's cheap!

That is one of many things that can get the first class cheap.
 
By the time I get to travel by train usually traveling by myself. There is no one else who can or wants to go with me. So, using promotions requiring me to travel with other people don't work out. Also, two people in a bedroom might woork all right, but three (or more)? I'll just wait until I have proper funds. For those who are lucky enough to be able to travel first class: just keep in mind the history behind your cars and acommondations, and think about all the stuff that goes on outside the train while you are asleep, all the things you are missing. Even during the daylight hours, there is so much to see and enjoy, and I wonder how many people in the sleepers know about it all.

Also, how many of you in first class accommodations have written to your congressman(men) and/or senator(s) and/or other public officials in support of Amtrak? Now's the time?
 
Hope everyone enjoyed the pics I posted.

Cars like the Pacific Parlour should only be for first class passengers. Just like flying, those who pay the premium fare for first class passengers don't expect to see coach passengers in their cabin.

It would be nice though if there was some sort of higher class car for coach passengers to mill about.
 
I'll just save my money and go when I can. It looks like I can do first class from Portland to Seattle for about $80. That may be an option someday. In the mean time, that doesn't mean that first-class passengers know, love, or are interested in the train any more than I do just because they have more money to spend than I do. I know more about the train, its history, its route, history of the route than most, if not everybody, in first class (or in coach). People who write brochures don't always know what they are writing about; they probably ahve not visited the places they write about.

And what about at night, or very early morning, when everyone is asleep?

I have traveled first class in Europe, because my railpass included it, and it was pretty nice. I am not as interested in going first class on a jetliner, although it would be a treat to be able to see and visit the upper-level lounge in the "bubble" of a 747. I love air travel too.

You still haven't answered my question: how many of you in first class have written to (postal and/or email) you political leaders in support of Amtrak? If the Feds stop funding Amtrak and its trains, and Amtrak is forced to discontinue its trains, you guys in the sleepers will also have to find a different way to travel.
 
steve_relei said:
For those who are lucky enough to be able to travel first class: just keep in mind the history behind your cars and acommondations, and think about all the stuff that goes on outside the train while you are asleep, all the things you are missing.  Even during the daylight hours, there is so much to see and enjoy, and I wonder how many people in the sleepers know about it all.
Also, how many of you in first class accommodations have written to your congressman(men) and/or senator(s) and/or other public officials in support of Amtrak? Now's the time?
I'm not quite sure what point you're trying to make with all of this. Don't coach passengers ever sleep? Are they somehow more observant? What am I missing when I'm asleep in my standard bedroom and traveling through western Nebraska at 4:00 AM? I travel both coach and sleeper and am aware of what's going on outside as much in one place as another. Yes, I have written my congressman and senators regarding Amtrak funding. Multiple times.

seajay
 
I've written my senators and congressmen twice now already.

Regardless if anyone is coach or first class, we should all write to our representatives in support of Amtrak.
 
I found that it costs $60 to travel in sleeper between Portland and Seattle; I'll try to do that one of these days.
 
battalion51 said:
Does that have a meal thrown in there Steve?
It should include one, regardless of which direction he's going. Meal times occur in both directions between Portland and Seattle.
 
Southbound, I should be able to get lunch. Northbound, the train is scheduled to leave at 4 pm--though it often leaves about 6 pm, and the diner is usually closed by that time. Maybe I can get a free snack. Does any one know how that would work?
 
seajay said:
I'm not quite sure what point you're trying to make with all of this.  Don't coach passengers ever sleep?  Are they somehow more observant?  What am I missing when I'm asleep in my standard bedroom and traveling through western Nebraska at 4:00 AM?  I travel both coach and sleeper and am aware of what's going on outside as much in one place as another.  Yes, I have written my congressman and senators regarding Amtrak funding.  Multiple times.
seajay
I am more observant--probably more than anyone else on the train.

At 4 am, during the summer, the sun can start coming up over the plains and/or mountains. It's a wonderful experience watching that. Of course, it depends on time of year and how far north one is. On the Starlight, at 4 am, the train (northbound) it passing through the Shasta Recreation Area. I can follow it both by the increasing light and by followin the train as it rounds curves--with the headlights and the lights of the train. Sometimes a full moon will provide light. There are a number of ways to enjoy a lounge car--or a dome car or observation car--at night while everyone else is asleep. If everyone is asleep, I cannot possibly be bothering someone who isn't there.

On the Empire Builder, going east, you are traveling through NW Montana and its beautiful countryside--mountainous and forested. There are a number of other places on other trains that have worthwhile things to look at in the morning--while everyone else(or most everyone else) is sleeping.

I am particularly bothered by VIA Rail's policy on some of its trains of not allow coach passengers to use the dome seats. Canada, for one, has very long daylight hours during the summer and into the night. Until such time, I'll save my money and use it on a ride that gives me more pleasure and is more accessible.
 
Guest_Steve_Relei said:
Southbound, I should be able to get lunch. Northbound, the train is scheduled to leave at 4 pm--though it often leaves about 6 pm, and the diner is usually closed by that time. Maybe I can get a free snack. Does any one know how that would work?
How does this work on the Empire Builder between Portland and Spokane when there is no dining, only a lounge. I think sleeping car passengers get some sort of cold meal.
 
steve_relei said:
I am more observant--probably more than anyone else on the train.
How nice it must be to be you. Maybe you should be an engineer.
 
Observation really isn't the knack that Engineers need to posses Although it is a good one to have). Awareness is a good quality, durability (the ability to work weird hours), and the ability to sit still for nine or ten hours, as some routes can make their Engineers do that (Auto Train SFA-FLO is prrobably the longest).
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top