PHL-CHI Route Options

Shop deals on ebay
shop deals on amazon
Advertise with us
Amtrak Unlimited Discussion Forum

Help Support Amtrak Unlimited Discussion Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
Philly Amtrak Fan said:
jis said:
We are still waiting for 125mph on the Keystone Corridor. It is really not terribly suitable for too much of higher speed operation given the profile of the route.
Click to expand...
110 mph sounds pretty good to me. How many Amtrak routes can trains go that speed?
Click to expand...
Other than the NEC, portions of the Empire Corridor, Keystone Corridor, Lincoln Corridor (very short stretch for now, more coming eventually), and Wolverine Corridor
 
The problem with the Keystone Corridor is that it is even more twisty turny than the general NEC, which means that you have a few short stretches where you can go higher speed but soon you have to slow down for a curve. That is the problem actually all the way to Pittsburgh on the old PRR route.
 
I came up with this new route today (CHI-IND-CIN-Dayton-Columbus-PGH-PHL-NYP).

Let's assume this is the only new route added between CHI and the NEC.

While it does give a direct route from the Keystone Route to CHI without transferring, it probably doesn't help them much as almost every stop would still be served quicker by several hours by a transfer in PGH (or in the case of PHL, in WAS or NYP).

The route leaves CHI 1 hour later than the Cardinal and arrives one hour earlier which helps with transfers to/from western trains.

The times in IND are 1 hour worse than the Cardinal/Hoosier State in both directions.

The westbound time for CIN puts it closer to midnight which they may appreciate (and it gives them an extra hour leeway for a western transfer). I don't think 3:27am vs. 4:35am makes any difference. However, this train would be daily.

The Dayton times (6:05am eastbound and 11:20pm westbound) are close to the graveyard shift but just outside although I'm sure they would take anything right now.

The Columbus times (7:40am eastbound and 9:50pm westbound) are great although again they'd probably take anything.

The NYP to PGH times work out great if traveling only between the cities (they would be roughly the opposite of the current Pennsylvanian).

While the train certainly doesn't take care of my #1 goal, it does re-introduce service to Columbus and Dayton, gives Cincinnati a daily train to Chicago and the East Coast, and introduces many east coast to Ohio pairs including Pittsburgh and Cincinnati, two cities with a sports rivalry in MLB (Pirates/Reds) and the NFL (Steelers/Bengals).

In a perfect world, this train would be on top of my previous Liberty Limited and Lake Cities proposals (or Broadway Limited and Manhattan Limited as Nate suggested).

Amtrak recently extended the PGH to Columbus thruway bus to Trotwood/Dayton and Indianapolis allowing these cities to connect with the CL and Pennsylvanian in PGH (although it requires a horrible wait in PGH in the middle of the night).

http://www.amtrak.com/ccurl/208/804/Amtrak-System-Timetable-Winter-Spring-2016.pdf

Maybe this leads to a train to these cities.

Buckeye Limited December 2015 via Cincinnati and Dayton.pdf
 

Attachments

  • Buckeye Limited December 2015 via Cincinnati and Dayton.pdf
    140 KB · Views: 10
Last edited by a moderator:
You can cut thirty minutes off westbound by shortening the Indy stop. The only reason it's that long on the Cardinal is so Indy has a six am to Chicago everyday
 
Main issue for this route is that Columbus-Pittsburgh is badly deteriorated and would require massive upgrades. Which means money from Ohio. Apart from that, it's a perfectly nice route.
 
I was riding a SEPTA train today when I saw one of the maps on the train. It had "Amtrak to Harrisburg, Pittsburgh, CHICAGO" (Chicago wasn't in caps but you get the point). I would've taken a picture but the battery on my phone had died. The map on SEPTA's website only has Harrisburg and Pittsburgh listed (sigh!)
 
The latest from All Aboard Ohio: http://allaboardohio.org/detroit-pittsburgh-corridor-campaign/

Key files:
http://allaboardohio.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/Detroit-Pittsburgh-summary.pdf
http://allaboardohio.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/Keystone-Wolverine_linkup.pdf

Proposed schedules:

NYP-PHL-CHI
43: NYP 9:52am, PHL 11:42am, HAR 1:36pm, PGH 7:05/7:30pm, CLE 10:25/10:30pm, TOL 12:45/1:15am, CHI 7:30am CT
44: CHI 10:30pm CT, TOL 4:50/5:00am, CLE 7:00/7:10am, PGH 10:05/10:30am, HAR 3:55pm, PHL 5:55pm, NYP 7:50pm

43 and 44 serve PGH and CLE at way better times than the CL does now and a PGH-CLE ride becomes way more attractive. TOL and the Michigan stops do fall into the graveyard shift.

NYP-PHL-PGH

45: NYP 1:44pm, PHL 3:35pm, HAR 5:30pm, PGH 10:59pm
42: PGH 7:00am, HAR 12:25pn, PHL 2:25pm, NYP 4:20pm

So there will once again be two dailies from NYP to PGH.

In addition, there are proposed trains PGH-CLE-TOL-Michigan-CHI that serve CLE and TOL at way better hours making travel between those cities even more desirable (and they will be in addition to 43 and 44 as well as the CL). Both these trains and 43/44 will serve Michigan cities to Toledo. AAO's proposal will also reroute 29/30 via Michigan and change the LSL schedules to give some separation between 48/49 and 43/44.

When it comes to Philly to Chicago, I'm not giving up and neither is All Aboard Ohio.

And second Pennsylvanian? Even Governor Wolf looks to be behind it (previous Post-Gazette article in this thread).
 
Hurry, Hurry get your Amtrak equipment here. Only 3 train sets 10 cars each. ~ $100M to get them.

EDIT almost forgot about 6 new Chargers needed. $36M.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
west point said:
Hurry, Hurry get your Amtrak equipment here. Only 3 train sets 10 cars each. ~ $100M to get them.

EDIT almost forgot about 6 new Chargers needed. $36M.
Click to expand...
Wish we could get Amtrak equipment from ANYWHERE!

The missed opportunity of the century was that Amtrak couldn't buy hundreds of cars when the Stimulus would have paid for them. No, getting that kind of money was like getting hit by a meteorite -- yeah, it can happen but nobody plans for it. So Amtrak didn't even have the work of the Next Generation teams in hand to use when ordering up-to-date equipment. By the time they were ready to order hundreds of cars, control of Congress had fallen into the hands of the haters.

There could be another opportunity after this election. Who can predict what President Trump would do. Or if Trump is defeated and the haters caucus in Congress is smashed, there could be a one-more-time opportunity to order hundreds of cars.

CAF and now Siemens, for Brightline, have open assembly plants, not to mention Nippon Sharyo, LOL. So now all we need is a few Billion to pay for all the stuff Amtrak needs, and there's plenty of money, plenty, if you know where to look. (Hint: One place is between Europe and India. Another is in billionaires' tax returns. LOL.)
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Philly Amtrak Fan said:
The negotiations seem to be on going...

http://www.post-gazette.com/opinion/brian-oneill/2016/05/19/Brian-O-Neill-Western-Pa-still-on-wrong-side-of-the-tracks/stories/201605190039

Sure it's just Harrisburg to Pittsburgh but I figure it's a key step. If there's a second train from PGH-NYP there might be a better chance Amtrak implements the through cars or at least adjust the schedule(s) that minimizes the wait time in Pittsburgh to/from the Capitol Limited.
Click to expand...
It seems like I read these words on another board.........
 
Seaboard92 said:
I never said it shouldn't be run. I'm opposed to cutting a current train to give a new one. And always will be. As for the route well there are some issues but they can be worked out. But the healthier route is the ex NYC that's just a fact. The PRR has lacked a train for too long. Never said there shouldn't be one. Just that it would take a lot of capital to make it happen.
Click to expand...
The old PRR Broadway Limited route west of Pittsburgh was restored and upgraded by the NS RR. It is in operation for freight service. That was the PRR double track mainline that left Pittsburgh and went through Lima,OH, Crestline OH, FT Wayne,IN and Valpariso IN before going on to Chicago..Should the service return there should be good demand, as those parts of Central Ohio and Indiana are without train service to CHI.

.The Broadway Ltd from PHL to CHI was an18 hour trip on an all Pullman sleeper train back then. Amtrak ran it for a while until parts of the route were abandoned though IN. Then it switched to the NYC route and the train was discontinued a few years later. The point is that it would be difficult adding another dedicated train from PHL to CHI route unless it would run on the old PRR mainline. The existing route that the CL and LSL use through OH and IN is too congested to add another passenger train to it.
 
Actually you are wrong about the ownership of that line. It is kinda difficult to sum up. But I'll try. When Conrail was split up CSX took the section between Crestline, OH and Chicago with NS keeping Crestline to Harrisburg with Amtrak taking the rest of the way to New York. CSX didn't want the additional mainline as their ex B&O runs fairly close. So CSX sold it off to RailAmerica which opened the Chicago, Fort Wayne, and Eastern on the line. Recently NS just put a lot of money into the line to relieve congestion on the ex NYC main via Elkhart as NS retained trackage rights. So the real answer is it's complicated.
 
Not to mention loading up new employees, stations, etc along a line rather than using the infrastructure still in place and in use along the NYC changes the calculus on cost.
 
I am all for restoration of the ex PRR route for passenger service. Same with the ex B&O. But the PRR is a better route as far as population wise then the B&O
 
It is currently a bit of a challenge to get to Union Station in Chicago from the ex-PRR route since the direct connection through Hobart has been abandoned including a little bridge which probably need to be replaced in its entirety to get it back. Currently there is a meandering route through various yards which finally gets one onto the route that the Cardinal follows into Chicago Union Station AFAICT.
 
jis said:
It is currently a bit of a challenge to get to Union Station in Chicago from the ex-PRR route since the direct connection through Hobart has been abandoned including a little bridge which probably need to be replaced in its entirety to get it back. Currently there is a meandering route through various yards which finally gets one onto the route that the Cardinal follows into Chicago Union Station AFAICT.
Click to expand...
Didn't they come in on Milwaukee trackage at the terminal itself?
 
jis said:
Depending on which they you speak of. Cardinal goes out on CSX trackage. If that was Milwaukee in the past I don't know.
Click to expand...
I thought that the Pennsylvania railroad used Milwaukee trackage rights to access Union Station, and Milwaukee only approached from the north. That would mean that the Pennsylvania Railroad would have had to make a 270 degree turn to head east.
 
CCC1007 said:
jis said:
Depending on which they you speak of. Cardinal goes out on CSX trackage. If that was Milwaukee in the past I don't know.
Click to expand...
I thought that the Pennsylvania railroad used Milwaukee trackage rights to access Union Station, and Milwaukee only approached from the north. That would mean that the Pennsylvania Railroad would have had to make a 270 degree turn to head east.
Click to expand...
Time for you to get a map and get yourself oriented I am afraid. ;)

Pennsylvania Railroad from the east used Pennsylvania Railroad trackage to access Union Station from the South. The famous parallel run at Engelwood between the Broadway and the 20th Century were respectively on PRR and NYC trackage. PRR came in from Hobart through Gary to parallel the NYC trackage and head into Chicago. At Engelwood NYC veered off to the right to join CRIP to proceed to la Salle St. PRR turned slightly right soon after that to head straight into Union Station. No Milwaukee Road involved.

It is possible that you are confusing how PRR got into Union Station from the North, which involved the Milwaukee Road. but that is not the way trains from the east coast entered Union Station ever. Trains from the east always entered Union Station from the South through 14th St Yard area. That is exactly the route used today by the CL and LSL and all of Michigan Service to enter the Union Station.

.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
jis said:
CCC1007 said:
jis said:
Depending on which they you speak of. Cardinal goes out on CSX trackage. If that was Milwaukee in the past I don't know.
Click to expand...
I thought that the Pennsylvania railroad used Milwaukee trackage rights to access Union Station, and Milwaukee only approached from the north. That would mean that the Pennsylvania Railroad would have had to make a 270 degree turn to head east.
Click to expand...
Time for you to get a map and get yourself oriented I am afraid. ;)
Pennsylvania Railroad from the east used Pennsylvania Railroad trackage to access Union Station from the South. The famous parallel run at Engelwood between the Broadway and the 20th Century were respectively on PRR and NYC trackage. PRR came in from Hobart through Gary to parallel the NYC trackage and head into Chicago. At Engelwood NYC veered off to the right to join CRIP to proceed to la Salle St. PRR turned slightly right soon after that to head straight into Union Station. No Milwaukee Road involved.

It is possible that you are confusing how PRR got into Union Station from the North, which involved the Milwaukee Road. but that is not the way trains from the east coast entered Union Station ever. Trains from the east always entered Union Station from the South through 14th St Yard area. That is exactly the route used today by the CL and LSL and all of Michigan Service to enter the Union Station.

.
Click to expand...
Ok, thanks for clearing that up for me, and I'm sure others were able to learn from this conversation as well...
There is a reason that I never proclaimed that my route was the only one...
 
What also might have aided his confusion is the fact that in 1969 the Baltimore and Ohio closed Grand Central Station in Chicago and moved their remaining long distance trains to Chicago and Northwestern's Northwestern Terminal.
 

Latest posts

Back
Top