Planes overhead

[railiner]

I used to park my car on Havana Street, right where it crossed the approach to the old Denver Stapleton Field runways 26L and 26R.
Had my scanner tuned to the Stapleton tower to watch the steady stream of incoming flights, Back then, it was a hub for UA, CO, and FL. I was not alone, there were many other’s doing likewise

 

[PaTrainFan]

I use an app called flightradar24 which provides a map showing aircraft in the area. By clicking on the aircraft you get flight number, type of aircraft and owner (if an airline), origin and destination.

I use this app as I live directly under a frequently used approach path to PIT. It's interesting to note where these aircraft are coming from.

 

[Metra Electric Rider]

I used to like listening to air traffic control, following flights from O'Hare on radio as far as the Earth's curvature would let me. I'd usually lose eastbound flight signals somewhere over Cleveland Center, as I'd track them using paper aeronautical maps.

Being under the glide path for O'Hare I can marvel at the sight of planes lining up to land at three or more runways for miles out, as they turn west off the coast of Lake Michigan. Hiking in the woods, I even use them to orient myself in direction.

It's always interesting to try and identify paint schemes. Sometimes, using these apps is helpful when I want to see where a plane of international colors is coming from. Or, conversely, if flights are taking off with eastward headways, wondering where they're going.

It allows one's imagination to take flight.

The north lakefront is interesting; when I lived there and would run in the evening, the line of planes coming in from the east was endless (and has been mentioned by friends) - I moved back south before the new runways were opened. Midway's flight path's vary quite a bit more - sometimes there will be planes circling overhead and other times nada.

 

[gswager]

That reminds me of my experience when I was in the USAF stationed at Cannon AFB Clovis NM. There was a secondary runway that ended near the BOQ where I lived and when the wind was right aircraft would be taking off just a few yards away. Nothing like the sound of a pair of F-4s going to afterburner on their takeoff roll

I used to live in Portales, south of Cannon. I used county road several times just west of AFB runway to go to Albuquerque. I got lucky one time when the fighter plane flew overhead from the runway, bringing rumble on my vehicle. Now that county road was relocated a mile away due to radio interference.

 

[AmtrakMaineiac]

I used to live in Portales, south of Cannon. I used county road several times just west of AFB runway to go to Albuquerque. I got lucky one time when the fighter plane flew overhead from the runway, bringing rumble on my vehicle. Now that county road was relocated a mile away due to radio interference.

I used to drive to and from Portales pretty often as in my spare time during my assignment at Cannon I was working on an MBA at ENMU.

Cannon was a great place for military aircraft watching at the time because we had F-111 fighter bombers ( the plane that could do a little of everything but did nothing really well) and T-33 trainers, but also was a convenient stopping point for air traffic. Besides F-4s we would also see Navy F-16s and the occasional transport. My favorite was a weekly morning flight that used a twin engine recip powered transport I forget its designation, I have always loved the sound of the old recip engines.

 

[Maglev]

I heard some military jets flying low nearby, and rushed to see if "adsbexchange" would identify them. They were not shown. Also, I am no longer sure that FlightAware identifies Canadian military flights.

I did note some differences between adsbexchange and Flightaware. Adsbexchange is a minute or so ahead of Flightaware. I had noticed that when I heard a plane overhead, there was plenty of time to open the program because the Flightaware tracking is behind real time. Adsbexchange shows more surface detail as well as ferry routes: the dashed lines from Bellingham are the Alaska Ferry. I was able to compare the position of this flight on the two apps, and saw that Flightaware was lagging:



Here the same plane at the same time appears about ten miles farther south on Flightaware:



I also caught a different Asia flight the other day: United flight 78, Narita to Newark:

 

[AmtrakMaineiac]

I heard some military jets flying low nearby, and rushed to see if "adsbexchange" would identify them. They were not shown. Also, I am no longer sure that FlightAware identifies Canadian military flights.

Have you tried Flightradar24? Although I'm not sure it shows military flights either.

 

[jis]

Have you tried Flightradar24? Although I'm not sure it shows military flights either.

Flightaware and Flightradar show only those flights which transmit ADS-B info. It is possible that some military flights don't.

I discovered (while sitting in a United flight crossing the Wakhan Corridor!) that even United and American flights (and indeed most airlines) crossing the Afghanistan Wakhan Corridor do not transmit ADS-B. They shut it down over Tajikistan and then turn it on over Pakistan well past the border areas (and reverse order on the way westwards). The Satellite based WiFi service on those flights are excellent and I have Flightradar on to see what is around us, something that you can't see on the moving map provided in the IFE systems. But as I said, while crossing the Pamirs and Wakhan Corridor you don’t even see your own plane let alone anyone around you.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

I have Flightradar on to see what is around us, something that you can't see on the moving map provided in the IFE systems.

The airshow folks spend so much time on clumsy 3D models that are mostly devoid of interesting data, but having surrounding flights displayed in near real time would be an excellent upgrade. Of course US airlines would probably never activate it the same way they never order/activate camera feeds.

 

[UserNameRequired]

I have had flights in small aircraft where the tracking on FlightAware/flightradar24 didn’t start logging until the moment I asked for Visual Flight Rules Flight Following which involves telling ATC your tail number, type, and destination, so that could be a reason small aircraft or military don’t show up (ie they are VFR and have chosen to not talk to ATC) if ATC hasn’t latched your tail onto a target on their radar with a flight plan for the data fed to FlightAware. In areas with good ground crowd sourced ADSB receivers though whether the FAA radar has your tail tagged or not may not matter assuming the aircraft had ADSB out?

 

[UserNameRequired]

The airshow folks spend so much time on clumsy 3D models that are mostly devoid of interesting data, but having surrounding flights displayed in near real time would be an excellent upgrade. Of course US airlines would probably never activate it the same way they never order/activate camera feeds.

You could probably bring an ADSB receiver (Stratus/Sentry/Stratux/etc) on board a commercial flight and if you had a window seat you may get it to work. Then an iPhone/ipad to connect to it, Foreflight app, and you will get a moving map with live traffic! There may be FAA rules about having a device to receive radio signals turned on while flying though so it would be a good idea to use discretion.

I have only used my IPhone to receive GPS to follow the flight plan (while you still have internet on the ground you type the flight number into the search field of Foreflight and it will bring down the as filed Flight Plan) and grade how well the (auto)pilot flies the Approach Plate, never tried my ADSB receiver on a commercial flight myself. The destination Digital ATIS you get at takeoff with internet will give you the likely Approach and runway in use as long as conditions haven’t changed too much.

The iPhone 14/15 has satellite transmission capabilities that could have been tested to Share my Location every 30 minutes while flying too. If the satellite you need to point at ( the iPhone tells you which direction on screen) is on the other side of the aircraft, you may have to wait some minutes (like 7 for example) until the next satellite comes into view.

 

[jis]

You could probably bring an ADSB receiver (Stratus/Sentry/Stratux/etc) on board a commercial flight and if you had a window seat you may get it to work. Then an iPhone/ipad to connect to it, Foreflight app, and you will get a moving map with live traffic! There may be FAA rules about having a device to receive radio signals turned on while flying though so it would be a good idea to use discretion.

There is no FAA restrictions regarding operating pure receivers notwithstanding potential Superhet related leaked transmission issues. I have operated a Garmin GPS receiver with an off duty Captain rank pilot sitting next to me in First Class, enjoying the moving map on my laptop in days when there were no high quality moving map built in devices available off the shelf. This was on a United flight on a trans-Pacific flight (EWR-NRT) on a 747-400. Those were the days when you used to be served Champaign and Caviar upon boarding in First Class on United.

 

[UserNameRequired]

There is no FAA restrictions regarding operating pure receivers notwithstanding potential Superhet related leaked transmission issues. I have operated a Garmin GPS receiver with an off duty Captain rank pilot sitting next to me in First Class, enjoying the moving map on my laptop in days when there were no high quality moving map built in devices available off the shelf. This was on a United flight on a trans-Pacific flight (EWR-NRT) on a 747-400. Those were the days when you used to be served Champaign and Caviar upon boarding in First Class on United.

I would still recommend some discretion, https://www.united.com/en/us/fly/baggage/electronic-devices.html
"Devices you can't use during your flight
...TVs
...Radio receivers and transmitters"

https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-14/chapter-I/subchapter-F/part-91/subpart-A/section-91.21
"91.21 Portable electronic devices.
(a) Except as provided in paragraph (b) of this section, no person may operate, nor may any operator or pilot in command of an aircraft allow the operation of, any portable electronic device on any of the following U.S.-registered civil aircraft:
(1) Aircraft operated by a holder of an air carrier operating certificate or an operating certificate; or
(2) Any other aircraft while it is operated under IFR.
(b) Paragraph (a) of this section does not apply to—
(1) Portable voice recorders;
(2) Hearing aids;
(3) Heart pacemakers;
(4) Electric shavers; or
(5) Any other portable electronic device that the operator of the aircraft has determined will not cause interference with the navigation or communication system of the aircraft on which it is to be used.
(c) In the case of an aircraft operated by a holder of an air carrier operating certificate or an operating certificate, the determination required by paragraph (b)(5) of this section shall be made by that operator of the aircraft on which the particular device is to be used. In the case of other aircraft, the determination may be made by the pilot in command or other operator of the aircraft."

 

[railiner]

There is no FAA restrictions regarding operating pure receivers notwithstanding potential Superhet related leaked transmission issues. I have operated a Garmin GPS receiver with an off duty Captain rank pilot sitting next to me in First Class, enjoying the moving map on my laptop in days when there were no high quality moving map built in devices available off the shelf. This was on a United flight on a trans-Pacific flight (EWR-NRT) on a 747-400. Those were the days when you used to be served Champaign and Caviar upon boarding in First Class on United.

Aren’t broadcast radio and television receiver’s banned in flight?

 

[jis]

I would still recommend some discretion, https://www.united.com/en/us/fly/baggage/electronic-devices.html
"Devices you can't use during your flight
...TVs
...Radio receivers and transmitters"

https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-14/chapter-I/subchapter-F/part-91/subpart-A/section-91.21
"91.21 Portable electronic devices.
(a) Except as provided in paragraph (b) of this section, no person may operate, nor may any operator or pilot in command of an aircraft allow the operation of, any portable electronic device on any of the following U.S.-registered civil aircraft:
(1) Aircraft operated by a holder of an air carrier operating certificate or an operating certificate; or
(2) Any other aircraft while it is operated under IFR.
(b) Paragraph (a) of this section does not apply to—
(1) Portable voice recorders;
(2) Hearing aids;
(3) Heart pacemakers;
(4) Electric shavers; or
(5) Any other portable electronic device that the operator of the aircraft has determined will not cause interference with the navigation or communication system of the aircraft on which it is to be used.
(c) In the case of an aircraft operated by a holder of an air carrier operating certificate or an operating certificate, the determination required by paragraph (b)(5) of this section shall be made by that operator of the aircraft on which the particular device is to be used. In the case of other aircraft, the determination may be made by the pilot in command or other operator of the aircraft."

I have one question. If something requires discretion then it should not be used since in the very fact of using discretion you are possibly knowingly breaking some rule? No?

Incidentally an earlier list from United explicitly allowed GPS receivers, and this list surprisingly does not list a device with radio transmitters and receivers for WiFi and Bluetooth as an allowed device (you typical iPhone for example). So I am not sure exactly what credence to associate with this list. Best to ask the PIC. I have and they have always said it is OK.

Aren’t broadcast radio and television receiver’s banned in flight?

Yes they are. But a GPS receiver is not a broadcast radio or TV receiver according to United PIC's interpretation. Similarly the GPS receiver in almost every Smartphone is not a problem either, and in some the darned things stays on even in Air mode.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

I am unaware of any rule against flying with radio transceivers, nor am I aware of any known negative impact from the use of passive receivers, but turning them on in flight is not allowed on any airline I've checked (excepting GPS, WiFi, BT). Devices with visible antennas are likely to be seen as a receiver/scanner by staff and you may be told to turn them off if noticed, at which point you would be breaking both airline and FAA rules if you failed to comply. I do not doubt things were different in the past, but here in the era of "Airport Karens" and the increasing incidents of violent in-flight disruptions I would not expect much leeway or understanding from airline staff. Even if you're doing something the airline approves in general it's ultimately at staff's discretion for each individual flight. The more serious and severe concern is the risk of taking a radio scanner into a country that considers them to be devices of espionage, so read up before packing.

 

[basketmaker]

FlightRadar24 supports these data sources:
ADS-B (Live)

GPS based aircraft tracking via terrestrial receivers. Real-time.
Space based ADS-B (Live)

GPS based aircraft tracking via satellite receivers. Near real-time.
MLAT (Live)

Time difference of arrival based aircraft tracking via terrestrial receivers. Real-time.
US/Canada Radar (Live)

Official radar data covering North America and certain oceanic areas around North America. Real-time.
Australia Radar (Live)

Official radar data covering Australia and certain oceanic areas around Australia. Real-time.
Spidertracks (Live)

Proprietary, GPS based aircraft tracking for light aircraft with a Spidertracks transmitter. Real-time.
UAT (Live)

GPS based aircraft tracking, mainly light aircraft in the US operating below 18,000 feet. Real-time.
OGN/Flarm (Live)

GPS based aircraft tracking technology, mainly light aircraft, helicopters and gliders. Real-time.
Other (Live)

Other tracking technologies used by Flightradar24 not classified above.

Military aircraft are visible for most flights such are training. I believe any special mission ops flights such as AF1, AF2 and High Level Dignitaries may be blocked. This is true for certain privately owned aircraft mostly owned by celebrities as they can have their information blocked by the FAA.

Another thing that is happening is GPS is being jammed in many middle east war zone areas.

Current screen shot of military/government aircraft over the US.

 

[Maglev]

I have been looking at FlightRadar24 to see if they show low-altitude military training flights. I haven't heard any recently, but did see a military helicopter identified. I'm sorry to not know what kind of plane they are that I hear low overhead--I just call them "fighter jets;" I think they're also known as "Growlers." When we first moved here, for two months we had a panoramic ocean view, and I could see what I thought were KC-46's (military 767's) on maneuvers in the distance, but these are not what I hear and see overhead.

Here is a link to information on the jets that fly low overhead: https://whidbeycamanoislands.com/jets-on-whidbey/

I was watching FlightRadar24 zoomed-in on the air base where the flights originate, and saw this plane, which was not identified. But it was identified on Flightaware:






Note that Flightaware shows the runways at Whidbey Island Naval Air Station (right above the airplane symbol in the image), but does not identify it with an airport symbol (such as PAE in this image).

 

[railiner]

Yes they are. But a GPS receiver is not a broadcast radio or TV receiver according to United PIC's interpretation. Similarly the GPS receiver in almost every Smartphone is not a problem either, and in some the darned things stays on even in Air mode.

But, as you previously mentioned, any modern “superhet” receiver circuitry generates some radio frequency transmission, albeit at low power. I had thought this was what the FAA had in mind as a possible source of navigational interference, right?
I believe the FCC objection is airborne cell phone usage, for a different reason…something to do with overwhelming cell towers, or something along that line…

 

[VentureForth]

You could probably bring an ADSB receiver (Stratus/Sentry/Stratux/etc) on board a commercial flight and if you had a window seat you may get it to work. Then an iPhone/ipad to connect to it, Foreflight app, and you will get a moving map with live traffic! There may be FAA rules about having a device to receive radio signals turned on while flying though so it would be a good idea to use discretion.

I have only used my IPhone to receive GPS to follow the flight plan (while you still have internet on the ground you type the flight number into the search field of Foreflight and it will bring down the as filed Flight Plan) and grade how well the (auto)pilot flies the Approach Plate, never tried my ADSB receiver on a commercial flight myself. The destination Digital ATIS you get at takeoff with internet will give you the likely Approach and runway in use as long as conditions haven’t changed too much.

The iPhone 14/15 has satellite transmission capabilities that could have been tested to Share my Location every 30 minutes while flying too. If the satellite you need to point at ( the iPhone tells you which direction on screen) is on the other side of the aircraft, you may have to wait some minutes (like 7 for example) until the next satellite comes into view.

That's an awful expensive hobby set up. lol. I've been told by flight crew that I can't have my hand held GPS turned on. It's a load of crock. I've been an engineer in Aviation for the last 25 years. I hold three pilot certificates and ratings. There is no prohibition on GPS receivers. That being said, my stand alone Garmin was useless unless pressed against the window.

To your point, Railiner, I had heard the cell tower issue was more plausible than interference. I've heard folklore that in the early days of cell phone roaming, people would be charged hundreds of dollars in cell phone roaming fees because they would jump multiple towers in a short time.

 

[jis]

That's an awful expensive hobby set up. lol. I've been told by flight crew that I can't have my hand held GPS turned on. It's a load of crock. I've been an engineer in Aviation for the last 25 years. I hold three pilot certificates and ratings. There is no prohibition on GPS receivers. That being said, my stand alone Garmin was useless unless pressed against the window.

To your point, Railiner, I had heard the cell tower issue was more plausible than interference. I've heard folklore that in the early days of cell phone roaming, people would be charged hundreds of dollars in cell phone roaming fees because they would jump multiple towers in a short time.

Back in the days when I used a Garmin handheld on United flights I used an extension antenna stuck on the window. You could get those and they were convenient.

Indeed it is mostly cell tower issues. If radiation from short range radio like WiFi and Bluetooth were a problem they would not allow those. Heck their entire IFE system now appears to depend on those. Not allowing a pure receiver is complete crock indeed.

 

[Asher]

I use flight tracker sometimes to track private plane flights and sometimes to see what may have occurred before an accident. One flight, the Kobe Bryant accident totally mystifies me why it wasn’t aborted. That’s another story though.
I live near Hawthorne Municipal where Elon Musk’s Space X faculty is located. He comes here when at times where he has as many 3 Gulf stream 7’s in a hangar and travels in a convoy of 5 vehicles while on the ground. People at Space X and near his hangar are always trying to get a glimpse of him and track the flights. Nobody I’ve talked to has any luck catching up to him.

 

[Maglev]

I am still trying to see if any of the apps identify the low-altitude fighter-jet training flights. I would not be at all surprised if none show them--I have heard that one of the things they try to do is be hard to track, and even heard rumors that there is a vehicle on the ground involved.

While checking to see if there was activity in the vicinity of the nearby Naval Air Station, I did see two military-related flights identified. One was an Eastern Airlines 767 going to Anchorage, and the only information I could get on the other was that is was a US Navy 737 (or the military equivalent C-40). This plane did not appear on FlightAware.