Possible changes to the Sunset

[battalion51]

According to an Amtrak source, there has been some discussion in JAX about funding lately. Most of the excutives there have decided that if funding is not adequate to run all services the Sunset will be dramatically cut. The Sunset's route will be scaled back to make it a Southern connection to the City of New Orleans. The connection will potentially leave NOL at 18:00 and then arrive in JAX at about 13:00. This is the weird part, it will then take over the Meteor's route from JAX to MIA via ORL, while the Meteor will be the daytime Palmetto. So, the equipment the Sunset will use will be very scaled back, there is some talk of just three coaches a lounge and a Trans Dorm. Others say one sleeper, diner, lounge, two coaches, and a Trans dorm. The new service will be a daily conncetion. Check back as we hear more details on the change.

 

[Superliner Diner]

Strange that this was not part of the list of rumors discussed by NARP and posted in another thread. It's interesting that should this be true, the entire Union Pacific RR portion of the Sunset would be gone. CSX has not been overly kind to this train either, since it was extended east of New Orleans to Florida.

Houston would join the list of large cities that have no Amtrak train service, although it most likely would retain its bus connection with the Texas Eagle at Longview, TX.

And what would become of the through cars that operate between Chicago and Los Angeles on the Texas Eagle and Sunset Limited? Would this train continue, as an extended Eagle only?

My feeling is that there are a good number of connecting through passengers from 1 to 58 and from 59 to 2 to make a southern connection to the City of New Orleans viable.

As for Florida, equipment could be a problem. The Sunset Limited ends where it does in Orlando because the only other Superliner maintenance facility is at the Auto Train terminal in nearby Sanford. Surely a re-extension to Miami could be lucrative, but is Hialeah now prepared to handle Superliners? Miami Joe? I might be inclined to believe this service could operate with single-level equipment, necessitating a change of trains (which is already done anyhow) in New Orleans. With Amfleet II equipment Miami would not be a problem.

Another reason the use of through Superliners bothers me is that the City of New Orleans already shares equipment with the Empire Builder. When 8/28 arrives in Chicago, it goes out as 59. Likewise, 58 turns into 7/27 in Chicago. To further extend the use of these trainsets all the way to Florida, means that one trainset could be operating between Seattle and Orlando, which comes out to 3905 miles. Going onward to Miami increases it to 4170 miles. That's a hefty trip without proper endpoint maintenance.

Rerouting the Silver Meteor over the Palmetto's route does make perfect sense. It will provide daytime service to Tampa, instead of the marginal hours (before 7 AM southbound, after 10 PM northbound) when 89/90 calls there. But I don't think Amtrak will let Orlando suffer with just one remaining New York-Orlando train (the Silver Star), so I would expect that the Silver Meteor and Palmetto would trade routes. Granted Orlando would get those marginal calling times, but at least the number of frequencies would be maintained. They could market the 7 AM southbound arrival as an opportunity to have breakfast with Mickey Mouse.

 

[Viewliner]

Until I see it I'm not going to (want to) believe it. I think the Silver Meteor would remain as is, as this train has a history, along with decent ridership. If we merely get enough Superliners to make the Cardinal Superliner, and the Palmetto the Silver Palm, and with a little rescheduling, the Tampa route wouldn't be an issue, at the very least, maybe the Silver Meteor could get a Tampa section (even some extra coaches) this way you solve the issue, besides the Meteor and Star would have gained a Tampa Section with the FEC route (which I'm not a big fan of), so we can add the section a little sooner.

Changing the routes otherwise would be a grave mistake, as Not too many families would want to get to Orlando on the Palmetto's Schedule (let alone without Sleepers!).

Any boost on the Tampa route would not be nearly as great as the loss on the Orlando route.

 

[Guest_guest]

Hey battalion51, do you work for Amtrak because I see you always put we when you state something about them. Just wondering you seem to know a lot about the railroad and do a lot of thing regular people don't get to do.

 

[battalion51]

Guest, I am NOT an employee, the only one here is Joe. I do however have many insider connections to Amtrak. I am friends with nearly all Conductors based out of JAX, as well as several Engineers, a few guys over at Tri-Rail, and some CSX connections.

 

[Bill Haithcoat]

Viewliner, you made a note about the Silver Meteor having a history---it does, indeed, about 1939, I believe. The Silver Star also has a history, about 1947, I think. Each of them and many other trains from NYC to FLA and also some from CHI to FLa had separate sections to the west coast and the east Coast. Historically, I believe the former Seaboard Silver trains divided at Auburndale, or maybe it was Jacksonville, I can look it up if anyone really wants to know. Atlantic Coast line trains typically divided at Jacksonville, some with a section to MIA via FEC, some to west coast via ACL routes.

THis has nothing to do with the original question about the Sunset...I just wish the Sunset would be daily, all the way from MIA to LA, and reasonably on time. Period. That is what it was meant to be.

 

[Viewliner]

I'd be interested if you can find out. I'd like to see a daily Sunset to Miami as well.

 

[Bill Haithcoat]

Before the merger between SAL and ACL: Seaboard trains which had sections to both coasts divided at WIldwood, FLa. After the merger, they divided at Jacksonville.

The Silver Meteor and SIlver Star flip-flopped around quite a bit during the 50's and 60's as to having sections to both coasts. During some of those periods SM operated to both MIA and West coast, with SS going only to MIA. Then, at times, it would be reversed: SS going to both, SM only to Miami. Then, at other times, each would have cars going to both coasts.

Strangely, a very few of my timetables during that period, mostly winter timetables, show the Silver Star diverting away from Jacksonville. The oldie goldie "Orange BLossom Special"(there is a country/western song about it)also skipped JAK at times during its history. The Orange Blossom Special was a very deluxe(but never streamlined) winter season pullman train which last ran probably about April of 1952 or, at the latest, Apirl of 1953.

I had mentioned Auburndale. I was mistaken about it being a place where trains split between MIA and West Coast. Instead, what it was about is this. When the FEC went on strike in 1963, the ACL trains to MIA used the ACL en-route-to-Tampa line as far as Auburndale, then they were hauled by SAL from Auburndale to MIA. SAL was willing to do this, inasmuch as serious merger talks were already underway, anyway. The merger happened about 1967..

As stated above, from the merger forward all trains which went to both coasts divided at JAX.

 

[Superliner Diner]

Bill,

I believe there was a relatively short period within the Amtrak era when one of the Silver Service trains did split at Auburndale (while the other did at JAX since it had to serve the westerly route via Wildwood & Ocala).

An interesting phenomenon: Before CSX downgraded the track that runs to the north from the Auburndale intersection, trains split at JAX. Those running via Wildwood went this way and straight through Auburndale down to Miami, while the trains via Sanford and Orlando went to Tampa. It was possible that a train would have to wait for itself (its other half) to pass at Auburndale. Later, the westerly trains were rerouted via Dade City and Lakeland, running back towards the Auburndale junction on the track that comes into the west side of the junction. Now, the Miami-bound section of a train running eastbound towards Auburndale could actually pass itself (and would most likely have to have a scheduled "meet" with itself) as it came upon the Tampa-bound section of the same train.

 

[Bill Haithcoat]

Superliner Diner.Yes, you may be quite right about some actual split taking place briefly after Amtrak began.......there were a lot of timetables to look through and I may have overlooked the point you are making about Auburndale......I was looking more at pre-Amtrak timetables, since I thought it had all been sort of settled by the time Amtrak came along......all kind of comlicated. Thanks for the very interesting info.