Privatize Amtrak Or No?

[Alexandria Nick]

Regarding the existence of two privately owned and operated subway systems clearly many here have not had any experience with Tokyo ...

Its not the same, though, because they're not offering redundant service. Its like if DC Metro had a separate operator for the Red Line than the rest of the system. Its nothing like having two side-by-side NECs connecting DC to NYC via Philly.

 

[jis]

Who said anything about main line rail like the NEC? We were talking subway systems I thought. Maybe I misunderstood. Sorry.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

If the airlines were not subsidized, think of how expensive the tickets would be.

Probably not as much as you'd think, really. The airlines are actually who pays into the trust that is used to pay the subsidies. Most of the subsidies are in turn spent by the FAA itself. That trust is currently running a $13 billion surplus, so the airlines have paid more than they've received.

Source?

 

[PVD]

There is a Federal Tax (7.5%) on every airline ticket, as well as a segment fee. They go into the trust fund, but since it is rolled into the ticket price, you only see it if you look at the itemized breakdown of a fare, not the total. A little less transparent than the Passenger Facility Charge (Max of $ 4.50, 9 dollars one way or 18 roundtrip) that is levied to support projects at the airports it is collected for. Also the security fee that supports the TSA.

 

[Alexandria Nick]

Who said anything about main line rail like the NEC? We were talking subway systems I thought. Maybe I misunderstood. Sorry.

I was kinda talking about both, but still, even Tokyo doesn't have two competing subway systems. They're complementary systems serving different areas.

As for the airline thing: https://www.faa.gov/about/budget/aatf/

Can't state it more bluntly than the FAA did right there.

 

[neroden]

Every country in the world concluded that railway service -- passenger *and* freight -- should be nationalized, because it works better as one integrated system.

Then the US, probably under the influence of leaded gasoline poisoning their brains, passed the Esch-Cummins Act of 1920 and re-privatized the railways. The same year they elected Warren G Harding. Even that act recommended a form of central administration similar to the 1923 Grouping in the UK, but it didn't happen, because America in the Roaring Twenties was run by drunken, drug-addled fools... at best!

 

[CCC1007]

Every country in the world concluded that railway service -- passenger *and* freight -- should be nationalized, because it works better as one integrated system.

Then the US, probably under the influence of leaded gasoline poisoning their brains, passed the Esch-Cummins Act of 1920 and re-privatized the railways. The same year they elected Warren G Harding. Even that act recommended a form of central administration similar to the 1923 Grouping in the UK, but it didn't happen, because America in the Roaring Twenties was run by drunken, drug-addled fools... at best!

*Every Country?* what about Australia??? What about Canada??? Please keep in mind that some people take things they see online very seriously, and that is not just my opinion...

 

[dlagrua]

I would support the passenger rail system that works best for the American people. What I believe would work best is if Amtrak bid out the LD routes and awarded contracts to private rail companies.Such an operation should need to be obligated to not diminish the level of service, accept the current subsidy for that line and manage it to make a profit.

We already have a couple of private passenger rail routes in the USA. Look at the Iowa Pacific Hoosier state and all of the Burlington (BNSF) commuter lines that run to Chicago. Private passenger rail can work but it would need to be subsidized. I have read many books about passenger rail in the 30's, 40's and 50's and it must have been so exciting to catch a train to almost any US city and have many choices to boot. Today our passenger rail is a skeletonized version of what we once had but yet most of the trains that we ride are sold out. Last years trip to Denver; Cardinal sold out, CZ sold out. This year I would bet that its the same.

 

[neroden]

Every country in the world concluded that railway service -- passenger *and* freight -- should be nationalized, because it works better as one integrated system.

Then the US, probably under the influence of leaded gasoline poisoning their brains, passed the Esch-Cummins Act of 1920 and re-privatized the railways. The same year they elected Warren G Harding. Even that act recommended a form of central administration similar to the 1923 Grouping in the UK, but it didn't happen, because America in the Roaring Twenties was run by drunken, drug-addled fools... at best!

*Every Country?* what about Australia??? What about Canada??? Please keep in mind that some people take things they see online very seriously, and that is not just my opinion...

I forgot Canada, where they only nationalized *almost all* the railways (CP remained private). They eventually privatized CN because of stupidity. CP of course was built with government money and parts built directly by the government, and was handed to private investors as a sort of corrupt giveaway.

Australia most certainly has a nationalized railway system.

I have to be clear about this: what needs to be nationalized is right-of-way, track, signal & communication, dispatching rights and powers, etc.... the *network*. Once that's done, it's quite common to have private companies tinkering around the edges, either as contractors to the government or as entrepeneurs. Australia has one of these tourist train operators.

 

[CCC1007]

Every country in the world concluded that railway service -- passenger *and* freight -- should be nationalized, because it works better as one integrated system.

Then the US, probably under the influence of leaded gasoline poisoning their brains, passed the Esch-Cummins Act of 1920 and re-privatized the railways. The same year they elected Warren G Harding. Even that act recommended a form of central administration similar to the 1923 Grouping in the UK, but it didn't happen, because America in the Roaring Twenties was run by drunken, drug-addled fools... at best!

*Every Country?* what about Australia??? What about Canada??? Please keep in mind that some people take things they see online very seriously, and that is not just my opinion...

I forgot Canada, where they only nationalized *almost all* the railways (CP remained private). They eventually privatized CN because stupid. Actually, they nationalized nearly all the railways *twice* -- there was an earlier misguided round of privatization in between.
Australia most certainly has a nationalized railway system.

Genesee and Wyoming Australia would beg to differ...

 

[neroden]

Genesee and Wyoming Australia would beg to differ...

No they wouldn't. Look up "Australian Rail Track Corporation" for the owner of the most important parts of the nationalized railway. Other bits are owned by the state governments.

G&W Australia is a freight operator which leases freight rights to certain narrow-gauge lines from the Government of South Australia (in addition to worthless leases of some lines which are *not operating*), leases the Darwin-Adelaide line from the state owners (South Australia and the Northern Territory) and operates as an open-access operator on some of the lines of ARTC.

The first private lessor of the Adelaide-Darwin line has already gone bankrupt, despite the line having been built with government money. G&W is the second lessor. Neither has ever owned the line.

 

[VKurtB]

The size of the city doth not a viable market for Amtrak service make, ... or break. My home station, li'l ol' Lancaster, Pennsylvania, has a pop. of only 50,000-ish, although the county just passed 500,000 in the last census. Lancaster consistently is in and near the top 15 nationally in terms of embarkations / disembarkations (station operations). Yes, the Keystone Service is the key. Lancaster has more business most years than even Harrisburg, the western terminus, does. Lancastrians use Keystone religiously for trips to HBG, PHL, and NYP, as well as PHL transfers to BAL and WAS.

What's my point? It's cultural, not necessarily size of a market that makes a town a good Amtrak town.

 

[Eric S]

Cultural? Perhaps that's a factor.

But it's also about service. Provide good or even decent (by Amtrak/North American intercity passenger rail standards) service to a metropolitan area of 536,000 people, get 541,000 passengers.

Similarly:

Normal, IL (metro pop 189,000; ridership 254,000)