Reuters Article on the Empire Buuilder

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Sounds good that each coach passenger gets "at least a double seat all the way". Maybe I can cope with that instead of the lounge floor to sleep. I am surprised, as most of my Amtrak coach trips in recent years, I have only had the one seat, with a pretty full coach... not like back in the good old days of 2005 !

Ed :cool:
 
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When I went in 2012, the EB was full. Almost no empty coach seats and I was in a sleeper from CHI-SEA. The SEA Sleepers were almost full and I remember a lot of kids running around. The dining car was normally sparse but I met an aspiring writer/artist that we talked to during dinner. I can't imagine the EB without a lot of people. Maybe it was so crowded for me since it was the Summer, and people were taking vacations to Seattle/Spokane.
 
The EB may be losing some of its "gray haired passengers" because of the increase in oil field worker traffic. A few have noted the rowdy conditions in the SSL and in sleepers and have opted to get to the west coast on another Amtrak train (or fly :( ) With the long delays now (on a train that once had the best OTP of many Amtrak trains), no guaranteed connections to trains in Chicago, and several other issues not the responsibility of Amtrak, many former loyal EB consumers have opted out. We have chosen not to travel on the EB in recent years for these reasons even though we like the scenery and enjoy the wide open spaces of the upper Plains. :unsure:
 
Last week, the Seattle portion showed up with only 1 coach so it was a tight fit for the coach passengers. We were in the PDX sleeper and everyone there were the retired kind. I was the only one in the car that was not in there 65+ group. When the oil workers got on the train in North Dakota, the feeling on the train did change significantly. None of them boarded the PDX sleeper but they filled up the coach cars quickly. Lets just say, some of the topics coming out of their mouths were probably not something I would repeat. I didn't see any drunkenness, but then again, we pretty much kept to our sleeper and only passed through coach to get to the dining car.
 
This Reuters article on the EB makes 3 Today I could not open for more than a sec. -- using the IPad app (I also tried the 'web view. No help). So frustrating!

Chaz
 
Hmmmm, some truth indeed, BUT, clearly the writer hasn't been on the EBs during the ski season or in the summer (June thru Sept). Hard to find a seat anywhere during those times. But I do agree with the members' comments about interesting times with the oil field workers. While many are wonderful and well manner people, there are enough bad apples to make life interesting after Williston in either direction. I have been on several EBs when they have forcibly removed people shortly after boarding because they were drunk out of their minds. Also, a couple folks were kicked off for flagrantly violating--right in the Sightseer lounge car--the no smoking edict. Oh, well........I guess after working in the oil fields for weeks the testosterone is in high gear.

The main reason why the EBs lost their shirt last year was the incredibly bad timekeeping. Very few "regulars" wanted to travel on a train that was routinely 8 hours or more late and made no connections. I was likely an example. The service was so unreliable I flew, sometimes at higher prices, just to be sure I would get to my destination on time. So far the eastbound EBs are running only around 2 hours late on average into CHI-town this Spring. Perhaps that will help bring at least some people back.

I do miss the amenities. While no Amtrak employee would "officially" agree with my estimate of how much the overall amenity package cost on a CHI to SEA/PDX run, when I offered up my estimate to a Amtrak CR person a short while ago she did not deny I was close to the cost. Increasing a Sleeper ticket price by about 2% would have more than covered ALL of the amenities. People shelling out $1500 a ticket or more (we are spending double that on our RT trek coming up) are not going to be put off by another $30+ cost, especially if they knew that Amtrak was actually going to treat them like First Class Pax!!!!
 
Totally agree! Raising the Sleeper fare by a small amount for the amenities isn't a deciding factor for most since it amounts to maybe a 1% increase. Long a ago it was nice to come to your room to find a white napkin on your fold down table, 2 EB keepsake wine glasses with a bottle of EB labeled wine, and a small couple of flowers on the table as well. Once under way, the SCA would bring each person a selection of crackers and cheeses, wrapped of course, and offer some fruit like an apple. This was just a start. I would travel whenever time permitted by train, but I still racked up well over 2M miles on Delta. It was a relaxing, plus I could get all my reports completed by the time I arrived.
 
Mostly a very superficial write-up, almost fact-free.

But this was interesting info, tho possibly garbled:

"… debate over the future of Amtrak ... Of its 48 lines, only five make a profit and one breaks even".

Looking in the April Performance Report, Page C - 1 shows year-to-date (7 months) results. Under the column heading "Fully Allocated Contribution/(Loss)", I count the Acelas; the Regionals; the Vermonter; Amtrak Virginia: the Lynchburger, the Newport News, Norfolk, and Richmond routes as contributing. So seven "made a profit", or at least a positive contribution, in April. The Auto Train shows "$0.0" to break even.

Of course, except for the Acelas, Regionals, and the Auto Train, the others are state-supported as per PRIIA. Whether or which If the Amtrak Virginia trains are showing results AFTER state support it's not enuff to matter.

Note that "break-even" had a number of contenders: the Maple Leaf, the Adirondack, the Pere Marquette, and the Carolinian show a 7-month loss of less than $1 million. The Ethan Allen, the Hiawathas, the Heartland Flyer, the Blue Water, the Piedmont, and even the hapless Hoosier State showed an Amtrak loss of less than $2 million for the 7 months. (Amtrak's share of the loss is to be 15% of the yearly total, iirc, after the state support covers 85% iirc.)
 
Don't forget the state support is counted as non-farebox revenue for the purposes of calculating fully allocated profit/loss. You have to compare the ticket revenue to the allocated cost to get a better feel for the picture taking state support money out of it.
 
The EB may be losing some of its "gray haired passengers" because of the increase in oil field worker traffic. A few have noted the rowdy conditions in the SSL and in sleepers and have opted to get to the west coast on another Amtrak train (or fly :( ) With the long delays now (on a train that once had the best OTP of many Amtrak trains), no guaranteed connections to trains in Chicago, and several other issues not the responsibility of Amtrak, many former loyal EB consumers have opted out. We have chosen not to travel on the EB in recent years for these reasons even though we like the scenery and enjoy the wide open spaces of the upper Plains. :unsure:
We've also not pursued another EB trip for exactly the above reasons.
 
I love the trains and had always thoroughly enjoyed our long distance runs all over the country, but Amtrak is following a pattern set by the common carriers like Allegiant Air, Ryan Air and even some of the legacy air carriers, to cheapen the experience to the point where it's purely a commodity now. No frills, no extras, no special experiences, just hop onto the cattle car and go from point A to Point B. Sad to see this happen. As others stated above the cost of adding the amenities that were once commonplace are insignificant compared to the total cost of the ticket. If Amtrak really thinks they would lose a lot of pax by covering the costs of the now dropped amenities (1-2%) they don't know their business.

Off the soap box--my local BNSF guy said today that they have told Amtrak that eastbound EBs should expect 2-3 hour arrival delays into CHI going forward (especially Mon thru Fri) as the construction projects ramp up, with 1 to 2 hour arrival delays into SEA and PDX. We are already averaging close to 2 hours on many trains into CHI-town so those newly "found" connections may be lost again by July.....I see today's #8 will arrive around 6:15 PM, enough time to catch the CL and LSL at least.
 
The EB may be losing some of its "gray haired passengers" because of the increase in oil field worker traffic. A few have noted the rowdy conditions in the SSL and in sleepers and have opted to get to the west coast on another Amtrak train (or fly :( ) With the long delays now (on a train that once had the best OTP of many Amtrak trains), no guaranteed connections to trains in Chicago, and several other issues not the responsibility of Amtrak, many former loyal EB consumers have opted out. We have chosen not to travel on the EB in recent years for these reasons even though we like the scenery and enjoy the wide open spaces of the upper Plains. :unsure:
We've also not pursued another EB trip for exactly the above reasons.
So what you're saying is that government subsidized transportation is now being used to transport people, instead of providing land cruises to nowhere.
 
For years I traveled out of Chicago to my project sites by rail instead of flying. In fact several on my team would also travel to the site by rail. We found we were able to get more productivity accomplished riding on the trains than when we had to fly. We traveled all over the US, except the west coast. I would board afternoon or evening for Pittsburgh, Washington, DC, Philadelphia, Rochester, Syracuse, Minneapolis, Omaha, Kansas City, Dallas, Denver, etc. Looking back at all the weeks I traveled by rail I have just calculated that I am grossly under reporting my Amtrak miles. There were many times we made the appointment when airports were closed. It was the mid-1980's when I received approval to start using Amtrak for business travel as long as it didn't affect my performance anymore than flying would.

In my project years on the road, I visited 47 states and slept in 46. Averaged 40+ weeks traveling each year. Yes, I had to fly frequently, and sometimes by car only when neither rail nor air arrangements worked. I think there are many opportunities for over night travel for business Amtrak is missing either by schedule, reliability, and/or amenities.
 
First sentence of the third paragraph tells why we have to be careful of articles like this. There is absolutely no equivalency between the Philadelphia accident and the issues facing the Empire Builder. NONE. NADA. ZERO. ZIP. ZILCH. This writer knows both trains carried the Amtrak name, and that's all he needed to create some kind of false talking point. He put that comment in there because it was timely and it filled space, even if it was totally irrelevant. I read that far and realized he's not worth paying attention to.

Reuters traditionally had a good reputation among news organizations. This article shows that they've slid a long way down the hill. Unfortunately, Reuters is not alone in their race to the bottom. Hard to say who's winning that race.

Tom
 
WoodyinNYCPosted 29 May 2015 - 12:18 PM

Mostly a very superficial write-up, almost fact-free.

But this was interesting info, tho possibly garbled:

"… debate over the future of Amtrak ... Of its 48 lines, only five make a profit and one breaks even".

Looking in the April Performance Report, Page C - 1 shows year-to-date (7 months) results. Under the column heading "Fully Allocated Contribution/(Loss)", I count the Acelas; the Regionals; the Vermonter; Amtrak Virginia: theLynchburger, the Newport News, Norfolk, and Richmond routes as contributing. So seven "made a profit", or at least a positive contribution, in April. The Auto Train shows "$0.0" to break even.

Of course, except for the Acelas, Regionals, and the Auto Train, the others are state-supported as per PRIIA. Whether or which If the Amtrak Virginia trains are showing results AFTER state support it's not enuff to matter.

Note that "break-even" had a number of contenders: the Maple Leaf, the Adirondack, the Pere Marquette, and the Carolinian show a 7-month loss of less than $1 million. The Ethan Allen, the Hiawathas, the Heartland Flyer, theBlue Water, the Piedmont, and even the hapless Hoosier State showed an Amtrak loss of less than $2 million for the 7 months. (Amtrak's share of the loss is to be 15% of the yearly total, iirc, after the state support covers 85% iirc.)
Don't forget the state support is counted as non-farebox revenue for the purposes of calculating fully allocated profit/loss. You have to compare the ticket revenue to the allocated cost to get a better feel for the picture taking state support money out of it.
I see where you are coming from. Not sure I was going in the same direction.

I'm looking at the corridor results as the loss that will hit Amtrak's results. So I do want the figures after the states' contributions. Of course the 85% state support will take care of most of the operating losses. But Amtrak still is gonna pay 15% of any losses, iirc.

So if the corridor routes are doing better, Amtrak's loss on these services will be less. And in a perfect world (riding the Lynchburger, perhaps?), some corridors would not require any state support and lucky Amtrak would not have to pay its small percentage of any losses at all.

Then, for example, when new equipment rides over 110-mph sections on St Louis-Chicago-Dearborn, ridership will jump, ticket prices will increase somewhat, and revenue will rise against costs. This will bring the Lincoln services and the Wolverines much closer to operating surpluses going forward, reducing the state subsidies, but also decreasing Amtrak's 15% share of any losses.

So I'm thinking mostly about corridor routes that will benefit from the extravagant sums invested in them under the Stimulus. The Wolverines and Lincoln services are tops, along with the Cascades. The Vermonter stands to speed up by another half an hour later this year, but probably next. Amtrak's own New Haven-Hartford-Springfield Shuttle corridor will also benefit from investments there. The Carolinian will go 20 or 30 minutes faster on that last stretch into Charlotte. The Empire services NYC-Albany-Buffalo will gain improved reliability and OTP, maybe even shave minutes from the padded printed schedule. The Ethan Allen, the Adirondack, and the Maple Leaf should also see better timekeeping from the double tracking west of Albany and other upgrades nearby.

These improvements will be nice and even save a few million for Amtrak's bottom line. But for all the screaming over the piddling $7 or $8 Billion Stimulus funds invested mostly in corridor services (outside of California HSR), it only looks good compared to the previous 40 years of underinvestment leading to rot and decline.
 
Very poorly contexted article. Writer seems unaware that LD pax service has always lost money. He should be chided for basically saying the EB usually runs empty (Now I did ride it once in 1975 when I WAS the only passenger in the sleeper leaving Chicago).
 
Rode the EB Westbound 2 weeks ago. The roomettes were full most of the way. The coaches were half-full.

Not only gray-heads. Some Amish families , as usual, in coach. Also many short-haul riders in coach - intra-Montana, MSP to ND or Montana, ND and Montana to WA.

The expensive Bedrooms were maybe half-3/4 full most of the way.

Fares were rock-bottom - why I took a roomette.

With the recent improvement (with some glaring failures) in OTP --

I expect the Empire Builder to do a lot better next fiscal year.

And, oh, the track improvements - there was miles of track and ballast already laid alongside the route, and trains full of crossties, rail, and ballast.

I hope :) and expect - that this summer season will be a lot less worse for EB pax than the last two seasons were.
 
Rode the EB Westbound 2 weeks ago. The roomettes were full most of the way. The coaches were half-full.

Not only gray-heads. Some Amish families , as usual, in coach. Also many short-haul riders in coach - intra-Montana, MSP to ND or Montana, ND and Montana to WA.

The expensive Bedrooms were maybe half-3/4 full most of the way.

Fares were rock-bottom - why I took a roomette.

With the recent improvement (with some glaring failures) in OTP --

I expect the Empire Builder to do a lot better next fiscal year.

And, oh, the track improvements - there was miles of track and ballast already laid alongside the route, and trains full of crossties, rail, and ballast.

I hope :) and expect - that this summer season will be a lot less worse for EB pax than the last two seasons were.
The BNSF folks say that Mon thru Fri on the Hi-Line 2-3 hour delays for the construction and freight traffic will be the norm for eastbound EBs (they try to expedite westbound EBs since there are no longer any extra train sets in PDX and SEA as back ups). Weekends will be modestly better (one hour or less) due to lower construction activity. By 2016 most (not all) of the Hi-Line major construction will be wrapping up, so I think the delays due to construction we are seeing now should carry thru this summer and ease up more next year. I assume Amtrak is willing to take the hit for the occasional missed connections now given these improvements.
 
There's a lot more work before we can hope for "good".

(Also, the glass is always full ;) )

attachicon.gif
ImageUploadedByAmtrak Forum1433259549.653730.jpg
I've always said it was the wrong size glass. :giggle:

I remain hopeful that I wont be delayed too badly going eastbound, that I'll be as comfy as possible for 3.5 days in my one coach transfer seat, the rowdiness towards Williston will be at a minimum and that I'll catch my connection in CHI. On the way back I can handle "some" delay.

That article made the EB seem almost as barren as the Plains. Only going from how quickly reservations were filling until I could make mine I knew the article was to be read with caution and I've never ridden Amtrak!
 
Headache:

Amtrak has its share of problems, to be sure. But I think a lot of Amtrak's negative reputation comes from the opinions of people who haven't ridden the trains and know little about them, and get their ideas from others who haven't ridden the trains and know little about them.

If a majority of Americans don't ride the trains at all, how can the "majority opinion" of them, be meaningful?

I predict you're going to have a good trip, although the on time performance may not be what it ought to be.

Tom
 
So many people have an opinion of what rail travel is like without ever stepping a foot on or near an Amtrak train. So many times people are very surprised when I detail the truth and fortunately a percentage have actually taken a trip and really enjoyed it. During the height of my travel for business, I got all of my team to try rail, in the end it was their preferred method of travel. Media mostly has ulterior motives behind their reporting, rather than honest, deep researched reporting.
 
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