River Runner to Cardinal Connection

[Ozark Southern]

When I put in a routing from my home station of SED (Sedalia, Missouri) to any point east of Chicago, I am not allowed to do so. I always accepted that this requires an overnight in Chicago, since the MORR gets into Chicago very late (8:40 PM). However, in glancing over the Illinois schedules today, I noticed a bus connection from Bloomington/Normal to Indianapolis that seems to make a connection to the Cardinal possible. It would go as follows:

Dep SED 10:04 Arr STL 13:55--Missouri River Runner #304

Dep STL 15:00 Arr BNL 17:56--Lincoln Service #314

Dep BNL 19:10 Arr IND 23:30--Thruway Bus #8892

Dep IND 23:59 Arr next day in NYP 21:56--Cardinal #50

This seems perfect, really, so why won't the website allow it? I made sure to try it for a day the Cardinal is running (tomorrow). I would love this routing for a) no overnight in Chicago, and b) taking the Cardinal!

 

[OlympianHiawatha]

There are a lot of "legal" connections that somehow Arrow (Amtrak Res System) overlooks, but an agent can force. I know there are some where it will not allow a Texas Eagle to northbound Heartland Flyer connection, which is a good 3 hour layover.

So call Amtrak direct and review this routing with a live agent and see if it works

 

[PaulM]

You can do it with a multi-city connection.

From what I gather, each multi-segment routing has to be entered into the system manually. It not like Google maps that can take the raw segment data and come up with not only a routing, but the one that is shortest or fastest. In other words, it isn't smart enough to come up the the routing you mentioned. Not only does the muti-city option not eliminate impossible connections, it may set one as the default.

Note: there seems to be differing opinions as to whether a multi-city routing is guaranteed.

 

[Ozark Southern]

You can do it with a multi-city connection.

From what I gather, each multi-segment routing has to be entered into the system manually. It not like Google maps that can take the raw segment data and come up with not only a routing, but the one that is shortest or fastest. In other words, it isn't smart enough to come up the the routing you mentioned. Not only does the muti-city option not eliminate impossible connections, it may set one as the default.

Note: there seems to be differing opinions as to whether a multi-city routing is guaranteed.

It seems when I try to do a multi-city routing that it does not give me bus #8892. Instead, it wants bus #8890, which departs BNL at 15:55--a problem because the earliest train I can connect to in STL arrives at BNL at 17:56.

There are a lot of "legal" connections that somehow Arrow (Amtrak Res System) overlooks, but an agent can force. I know there are some where it will not allow a Texas Eagle to northbound Heartland Flyer connection, which is a good 3 hour layover.

So call Amtrak direct and review this routing with a live agent and see if it works

I did, and the agent told me the exact routing I described above is possible. Awesome--this just made the East Coast much more accessible to us.

 

[AlanB]

You can do it with a multi-city connection.

From what I gather, each multi-segment routing has to be entered into the system manually. It not like Google maps that can take the raw segment data and come up with not only a routing, but the one that is shortest or fastest. In other words, it isn't smart enough to come up the the routing you mentioned. Not only does the muti-city option not eliminate impossible connections, it may set one as the default.

Note: there seems to be differing opinions as to whether a multi-city routing is guaranteed.

It seems when I try to do a multi-city routing that it does not give me bus #8892. Instead, it wants bus #8890, which departs BNL at 15:55--a problem because the earliest train I can connect to in STL arrives at BNL at 17:56.

What what time you pick for your departure, that can have an affect on what choices the multi-city shows you.

 

[Ozark Southern]

You can do it with a multi-city connection.

From what I gather, each multi-segment routing has to be entered into the system manually. It not like Google maps that can take the raw segment data and come up with not only a routing, but the one that is shortest or fastest. In other words, it isn't smart enough to come up the the routing you mentioned. Not only does the muti-city option not eliminate impossible connections, it may set one as the default.

Note: there seems to be differing opinions as to whether a multi-city routing is guaranteed.

It seems when I try to do a multi-city routing that it does not give me bus #8892. Instead, it wants bus #8890, which departs BNL at 15:55--a problem because the earliest train I can connect to in STL arrives at BNL at 17:56.

What what time you pick for your departure, that can have an affect on what choices the multi-city shows you.

Out here in the Wild West, Alan, you don't get to pick the time, just the day! There's only one train that goes from SED to BNL, and that's the #304/314 MORR/Lincoln. It departs 10:04 from SED. All other times for this trip were calculated from that departure time, as indicated in my first post.

I think I've isolated the problem. I believe it's the 29-minute layover in IND. A test booking one-way from SPI to IND will allow either #8890 or #8892, but BNL to CIN will only allow #8890. SPI to CIN yields neither bus as a possibility. I know Amtrak typically wants 30 minutes of padding for a connection, so it's probably the website seeing the connection as mathematically less than 30 minutes, despite the fact that the IND departure is only bumped up by a minute to avoid the confusion of a midnight departure. This fact is obvious to a human, hence the live agent's willingness to book it.

Having this possibility is a big plus, as it eliminates the need to book a hotel in Chicago. I've found, though, that the trick does not work in reverse. The #8893 bus for some reason does not stop in BNL, though it makes all other stops, and the #8895 arrives too late for the #303. The only same-day connection from the East Coast to the River Runner is the Capitol Limited, but that leaves only a 40-minute departure window--nowhere near enough unless and until it gains a significantly better OTP.

 

[AlanB]

Out here in the Wild West, Alan, you don't get to pick the time, just the day! There's only one train that goes from SED to BNL, and that's the #304/314 MORR/Lincoln. It departs 10:04 from SED. All other times for this trip were calculated from that departure time, as indicated in my first post.

You may not have multiple choices in terms of what time you can leave, but the online system still lets you request a departure time when you ask it to show you the potential choices. If you pick the wrong time, it will alter the choices that will be presented to you for selection.

For example, if there was a bus/train that left at 5 AM and you select morning, then the system will most likely not show you that choice. Of if your train left at 8PM and you put in 11 PM accidentally, then it will not show you the train you want. Or if it's a once a day train, then the system will show you the next day's train instead of the date you wanted simply because you put in the wrong time on your request.

That's what I'm talking about, not how many train choices you actually have. It is very important to use the correct starting times on the multi-city page before clicking next to have it show you the possible choices.

 

[Ozark Southern]

Out here in the Wild West, Alan, you don't get to pick the time, just the day! There's only one train that goes from SED to BNL, and that's the #304/314 MORR/Lincoln. It departs 10:04 from SED. All other times for this trip were calculated from that departure time, as indicated in my first post.

You may not have multiple choices in terms of what time you can leave, but the online system still lets you request a departure time when you ask it to show you the potential choices. If you pick the wrong time, it will alter the choices that will be presented to you for selection.

For example, if there was a bus/train that left at 5 AM and you select morning, then the system will most likely not show you that choice. Of if your train left at 8PM and you put in 11 PM accidentally, then it will not show you the train you want. Or if it's a once a day train, then the system will show you the next day's train instead of the date you wanted simply because you put in the wrong time on your request.

That's what I'm talking about, not how many train choices you actually have. It is very important to use the correct starting times on the multi-city page before clicking next to have it show you the possible choices.

Gotcha. I always leave that blank, so it shows me all choices. Occasionally I get to pick, but it's rare that even a four-leg multi-city route exceeds 1 page.

 

[gatelouse]

Try that on the NEC--up to four pages of choices per segment!

 

[PaulM]

Try that on the NEC--up to four pages of choices per segment!

You don't have to rub it in.

 

[Ozark Southern]

Try that on the NEC--up to four pages of choices per segment!

I'd love to, but the $300pp it costs for me to get to the NEC makes that a little difficult. So I settle for riding, and encouraging MoDOT to invest in, our state-supported train. Our current governor is supportive, and we're looking forward to using the bi-levels we're buying in conjunction with Illinois in a couple years, as well as to the results of the state rail plan revision next year. If the St. Louis-Springfield (-Joplin-Tulsa-Oklahoma City) line does come to fruition, I want it to be called the Highlander. Of course, then there could be only one train per day....