Routes With Most Padding

[fairviewroad]

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To play Devil's Advocate, however, maybe adherence to schedules is not really so important these days for LD trains, since almost no passenger is in a hurry to get anywhere, unless it's for a connection, in which case savvy Amtrak riders know that they need to pad their own time sufficiently in addition to the Amtrak padding!!

Some padding is appropriate and a nod to reality. (And I don't count time built in for operational reasons...crew change, supplies, etc...as padding)

But the downside is that excessive padding reinforces the reputation that trains are "slow." Yeah, many people on LD trains are on vacation and in no hurry...but this isn't a cruise that purposefully docks to let passengers explore the local port-of-call. Klamath Falls and Minot are not St. Maarten or Santorini. Plus, as noted, passengers are discouraged from leaving the trainside even during long (45+ minute) dwell times. Some of us will ignore this or use the dwell time to take a shower, but for many (especially coach) passengers a long dwell time equates to boredom or dodging the smokers on the platform.

Or...someone waking up on the Coast Starlight is expecting to enjoy breakfast while watching the passing scenery of the Cascades. Instead, the train pulls into K-Falls and their "view" for the better part of an hour is this.

The point is that padding cuts both ways...it reduces the chances of missed connections...but makes for a potentially less enjoyable trip.

 

[CHamilton]

Klamath Falls and Minot are not St. Maarten or Santorini.

 

[LarryG]

Some of us will ignore this or use the dwell time to take a shower, but for many (especially coach) passengers a long dwell time equates to boredom or dodging the smokers on the platform.

For the 1.5-2 hour layover at Albany, the LSL parks at the station for 10 minutes, then moves down the track so it's out of the way, but inaccessible. So people can either sit on the train for 90 minutes without being able to get off, or they can stay in the station for 90 minutes without being allowed to get back on and grab any stuff they left on board

 

[guest]

Coast starlight has a lot. 14 arrived 1hour early into Klamath falls when I ride it.

How does a train get into a station in the middle of the route an hour early? That means it has to sit there an hour until it can leave? Is this a crew change, water, supply stop?

Yes, it is a crew change, and water stop. They take trash out, but do not take on supplies at KFalls.

Most long distance routes have pad points in the middle of their schedules most more than one, not just at terminals. For the Starlight, there is pad at Portland, KFalls, Sacramento, Emeryville, San Jose, and I think San Luis Obispo. For the SWC, there is pad at Albuquerque, Kansas City and I think La Junta. There may be more on it. Builder has pad at Spokane, maybe Whitefish, Havre, and Minneapolis/St Paul maybe more. Can't speak for CZ, except for Denver and SLC.

I think the Sunset on the current schedule (not the May 7 one) probably has the most pad. When I rode it a couple of years ago, we were basically on time, and had really long dwells holding for time, well over an hour, at some points.

Minot is a major stop on the EB route. Not sure if a crew change/water stop, but I am fairly certain it is at least 1 of the two. The CZ used to have a refueling/crew change (or something like that) at Sparks, but I think they just ended up shifting it to the Reno station, but not sure. I think you're right about SLO being a pad point as well. Grand Junction has tons of pad there as well. Back in April 2011, we pulled in around 9:40 going eastbound. I assume Omaha is a point as well, and I have heard the mentions on here of their sleeper attendants sometimes getting the local newspaper there as well, if they're that kind of attendant (in the good way).

I would argue that the PacSurf has some lag time. Looking at the schedules, you will find the quickest northbound time at 33 minutes, and the slowest time southbound at 50 minutes Even when factoring in meeting opposing trains, this still works out to not take 50 minutes. For a corridor train, I look at every single train in both directions (assuming it's relatively flat) and find the quickest time made on that route whatsoever. On the PacSurf, the quickest run time for a train that stops at LAX, FUL, Anaheim, SantaAna, Irvine, SJC, Oceanside, Solana Beach, and San Diego without any padding at all would be:

LAX-Fullerton: 29 minutes

Fullerton-Anaheim 8 minutes

Anaheim-Santa Ana 8 minutes

Santa Ana-Irvine 10 minutes

Irvine-San Juan Cap 13 minutes

SJC-Oceanside 29 minutes

Oceanside-Solana 14 minutes

Solana-San Diego 33 minutes

Grand Total 144 minutes/2 hours 24 minutes.

The quickest run made in total is 2 hours 40 minutes (not counting the dumb express train). Most runs are 2h 45m or 2h 50m. The worst offender is the 2:40 northbound from SAN, with a 3h run time. When the link was posted earlier to the very first timetable, even though I had seen it before multiple times, I decided to look through it anyways. I saw the Coast Starlight, which left Seattle at 12:15p and arrived in LA at 7:15 p the next day. Leaving 2:30 later and arriving 1:45 earlier, that is a big difference. Sure it took the West Valley Sub, but the actual run time would not take off more than an hour. But a huge amount of south-of-San Luis Obispo (40 minutes shorter SLO-SB just on that segment than today and a big amount south of SBA too) and mid-point city stopovers have been added. Wouldn't it be great for a train to leave Vancouver at a 7:30a time and arrive in LA by 9:00p (assuming the current through-SAC route)? Me gusta.

I don't think that, with regard to the Pacific Surfliner, the schedule is padded. Rather, the differing times for the 24 daily trains results from known stops or slow areas on passing tracks due to scheduled Amtrak, Metrolink and Coaster trains running in the opposite direction in single-track locations (mainly southern Orange and San Diego counties). If those "meets" occur as planned because both trains are on schedule, then the Surfliners will make their schedule, or perhaps be a minute or two ahead of time into LAUS or San Diego. If those meets don't take place as planned, the Surfliners end up late; if there was padding, they could still be on time.

To me, padding is where Amtrak adds time to schedules because of the daily uncertainty over dispatching and other actions by the host freight railroads, which can hold up an Amtrak trains for minutes, if not hours. On the Surfliner route, the delays result from too many passenger trains on insufficiently double-tracked right-of-way.

 

[Rob3E]

I've been watching the Capital Limited between Cleveland and DC so I can know what to expect on an upcoming trip. It seems to frequently pull out of Cleveland over an hour late, but usually makes it in to DC within a half hour of its scheduled time. I would say that there must be some padding in there somewhere, but it's not "extra" since they usually make use of it.

 

[Paulus Magnus]

There is definitely padding on the Surfliner. Easiest way to spot: Solano Beach to SAN is scheduled longer than COASTER, with two additional stops, takes. It's about 15 minutes of padding there, and about 10 or so from Fullerton north to LAUS.

 

[guest]

There is definitely padding on the Surfliner. Easiest way to spot: Solano Beach to SAN is scheduled longer than COASTER, with two additional stops, takes. It's about 15 minutes of padding there, and about 10 or so from Fullerton north to LAUS.

I'm not sure that's entirely correct.

The quickest time for a Surliner nonstop between San Diego and Solana Beach is 34 minutes, the schedule for some Amtrak trains which don't have to stop and wait for two Coaster trains to pass in the other direction. Remember that the Coaster owns the largely single-track rail line and its dispatcher gives the Coaster commuter trains priority over the Amtrak trains. To me, it's padding when Amtrak has to account for unexplained freights and unplanned contingencies on LD routes by adding minutes if not hours to the runs. It's not padding in that sense for Amtrak to add up to 10 minutes to a Surfliner run when it knows that every day, there are going to be scheduled delays because of other passenger trains running on the mostly single-track line.

Now if Amtrak has to regularly pad the section between Fullerton and LAUS because BNSF constantly shunts Surfliners aside or stops them for freights whenever BNSF wants no matter the Surfliner schedule, then that's a different story IMHO.