Salt Lake City Station discussion

[Paniolo Man]

Greyhound picks up and drops off on the curb in front of the "Intermodal Hub" building. Their seating area has been cleared out for some time now, they ended their lease with UTA as a cost-cutting measure. I'm unsure about their ticket office.

 

[dlagrua]

We have some talk here about Amtrak potentially restoring the Desert Wind service but BrightlineWest already has an aggressive proposal to restore LA to LAS service. That would be in conflict with Amtrak service so I have no idea how Amtrak would propose adding the Boise, Ogden and Salt Lake City service to it.

 

[Metra Electric Rider]

We have some talk here about Amtrak potentially restoring the Desert Wind service but BrightlineWest already has an aggressive proposal to restore LA to LAS service. That would be in conflict with Amtrak service so I have no idea how Amtrak would propose adding the Boise, Ogden and Salt Lake City service to it.

I can't remember now, but aren't they planning on mostly new alignment (or is my memory faulty and it was the previous proposal that was going to do that)? If so, wouldn't that lessen any conflicts (i.e. Amtrak running LA-SLC separately)?

 

[jis]

I can't remember now, but aren't they planning on mostly new alignment (or is my memory faulty and it was the previous proposal that was going to do that)? If so, wouldn't that lessen any conflicts (i.e. Amtrak running LA-SLC separately)?

All new alignment. Not just mostly.

 

[joelkfla]

All new alignment. Not just mostly.

Amtrak or Brightline?

 

[jis]

Amtrak or Brightline?

Brightline. Amtrak is not building any tracks for LD service. It is explicitly excluded in the criteria used in Corridor ID.

 

[AmtrakMaineiac]

Seems to me an Amtrak LAX - Las Vegas NV - SLC service would still be viable even with Brightline West as it would serve LD passengers as well as providing a slower and probably cheaper LAX to LV service. In the same way that Amtrak LD trains coexist with Brightline Florida today.

 

[Metra Electric Rider]

All new alignment. Not just mostly.

Thanks, couldn't remember and was too lazy to look it up.

 

[Willbridge]

Thanks, couldn't remember and was too lazy to look it up.

There are two services that Amtrak could provide without directly competing with Brightline's plans. Amtrak's likely route into LA goes through Riverside and Fullerton, substantial populations along with other suburbs. The other service possibility is an overnight run, which would have many connections in LA.

The overnight run meshes with a daylight schedule from SLC, to Las Vegas and vv.

 

[Willbridge]

Greyhound picks up and drops off on the curb in front of the "Intermodal Hub" building. Their seating area has been cleared out for some time now, they ended their lease with UTA as a cost-cutting measure. I'm unsure about their ticket office.

Thanks. It seems likely that they are sponging off of Amtrak for bathrooms and waiting space. That's the case elsewhere, but in other cases there are more substantial train stations. It would be justified if the former Throughway links existed, but they've faded away with flix.

 

[Paniolo Man]

I stopped by again tonight. The Intermodal Hub building is fully closed up, the power is still on. Salt Lake Central is truly without amenities now, there is always someone looking for a bathroom.

 

[Amtrak25]

Where does Salt Lake Express bus operate out of ?

 

[jis]

Where does Salt Lake Express bus operate out of ?

Here is all the information about them:

https://saltlakeexpress.com/

 

[Willbridge]

Here is all the information about them:

https://saltlakeexpress.com/

The current situation with GL slumming at the locked up terminal and Salt Lake Express near the Temple is continuing to send DEN<>PDX and similar itineraries on all-GL trips via LAX. And charging them for the side trip.

Salt Lake Express is currently appearing in the GL trip planner as stopping at the SLC intermodal facility on an overnight SLC<>BOI trip and yet it isn't showing a connection there with Greyhound.

Something else has turned up -- a Flix trip overnight SLC<>BOI with only one stop (in Ogden). Maybe! There are all kinds of weird results.

"Salt Lake City, UT is currently not available on the map." That accurate and profound message appears on the flix map. However, it looks as though flix is in the process of taking over the BOI<>SLC link.

 

[Amtrak25]

Does Amtrak still show as the Greyhound service between SLC and Reno ? I assume no other bus company has filled in.

During the pandemic, GL also killed the route between SLC and Grand Jct, continuing down to Albuquerque. I took it once in 2010 from SLC to Grand Jct to avoid getting up at 3am to board #6. The bus was full.

 

[Paniolo Man]

Salt Lake City has done their own study on relocating the tracks and station. It will be released at an event next month.

 

[Paniolo Man]

Salt Lake City's plan includes a much larger project. It would eliminate several more grade crossings and lengthen the train box quite a bit. The restored Rio Grande Depot would have ample room for layover travelers coming in on restored Pioneer and Desert Wind trains, as well as conceptual regional service.
Here is a link to the booklet.

 

[b1xn00d]

Salt Lake City's plan includes a much larger project. It would eliminate several more grade crossings and lengthen the train box quite a bit. The restored Rio Grande Depot would have ample room for layover travelers coming in on restored Pioneer and Desert Wind trains, as well as conceptual regional service.
Here is a link to the booklet.

I want this so much it hurts. Also, this is an absolutely insane statistic:

According to the analysis, if the train box moves forward, approximately 75.5 acres will require at least
partial demolition. SLC RDA estimates the FY2022 taxable value of the impacted parcels at $17.5 million.
If all impacted parcels were demolished and redevelopment occurred according to future zoning and
anticipated development densities for the area, it is anticipated that by 2040, the taxable value of these
parcels would increase to approximately $1.9 billion.

And lol at this thing talking about speed enhancements that would be attractive to Union Pacific only to slide in that the design speed is 45 mph. Seems like water management (groundwater + City Creek) and convincing Union Pacific that this is preferable to the status quo are going to be the biggest sticking points.

Good lord, that price tag, though. Shame we can't build things in this country anymore.

 

[b1xn00d]

Salt Lake City's plan includes a much larger project. It would eliminate several more grade crossings and lengthen the train box quite a bit. The restored Rio Grande Depot would have ample room for layover travelers coming in on restored Pioneer and Desert Wind trains, as well as conceptual regional service.
Here is a link to the booklet.

I'm no civil engineer but their $15/cubic foot cost estimate for excavation (not including retaining walls, etc.) seems awfully high, and that by itself is almost half of the price tag. Is there some reason (groundwater, maybe?) that the cost per cubic foot of moving dirt around would go up with scale? Itinerant laborers outside Home Depot would do it for less with a shovel and a wheelbarrow.

 

[Amfleeter]

I'm no civil engineer but their $15/cubic foot cost estimate for excavation (not including retaining walls, etc.) seems awfully high, and that by itself is almost half of the price tag. Is there some reason (groundwater, maybe?) that the cost per cubic foot of moving dirt around would go up with scale? Itinerant laborers outside Home Depot would do it for less with a shovel and a wheelbarrow.

Salt Lake County is built on a lakebed, mostly. Once you get away from the mountain benches, the bedrock goes very deep, *very* quickly. The proper bedrock is a few thousand feet down in the center of the Valley.

Basically, the soil is dried up mud and silt in the central and western side of the Valley. It's partially why the high rises and downtown SLC are on the eastern side of the valley, up against the Wasatch Mountains (and right on top of a fault line)

 

[b1xn00d]

Salt Lake County is built on a lakebed, mostly. Once you get away from the mountain benches, the bedrock goes very deep, *very* quickly. The proper bedrock is a few thousand feet down in the center of the Valley.

Basically, the soil is dried up mud and silt in the central and western side of the Valley. It's partially why the high rises and downtown SLC are on the eastern side of the valley, up against the Wasatch Mountains (and right on top of a fault line)

This makes sense as a cost driver for building the foundation - but the $15/cubic foot figure I was referring to expressly does not include structural elements, which appear elsewhere in the table. Pic related.

 

[Paniolo Man]

The event went pretty well, lots of enthusiasm.

UTA and the State are both aware of this project.

 

[Paniolo Man]

Since we have a Salt Lake City station thread, I feel inclined to bring up something UTA did at Central Station that made my blood boil.

The beautiful old Rio Grande Freight Depot and Locomotive Shop sat behind the station until a few years ago. UTA announced plans to restore the structure and use it as the new central bus garage. Then they subtly changed the plan to raze the entire structure in favor of a bland tilt-up building. Their aversion to using the historic Rio Grande Depot for passenger service is clearly because they like doing things the cheap way, not the best way.

In Rio Grande Plan news: The City should be bidding out for the Reconnecting Communities study within the next month, a year after that we should know if relocating the station is the best path forward.

 

[b1xn00d]

At times it really feels like UTA is not merely indifferent to giving people things that are beautiful and remind them of a proud history, but actively opposed to it. Take the current bus station building at Salt Lake Central. Would you have guessed it was also a former railroad freight house? Sure wasn't obvious to me - because UTA did everything in their power to make it look like a Costco. Covered up the bricks with corrugated metal, demolished the entire northern half of the building - and all this after pledging to preserve it in response to just the sort of complaints you're making. In any case, it's locked up tight and will likely share the fate of the northern half of the building soon, and frankly putting out of its misery would probably be for the best at this point.



The area around Union Station in Denver was notably packed with old brick warehouses converted to posh lofts and restaurants. SLC won't be getting anything like that

 

[Amtrak25]

I thought the intermodal station should have been the UP depot, walking distance in a safe area to Temple Square, but that possbility has long since been destroyed.