San Joaquin survey on early morning Sacramento train

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calwatch

Lead Service Attendant
Joined
Nov 28, 2010
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https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/KGB7GKZ

As currently proposed the concept is for a mid-route start from Fresno. Essentially the train that currently arrives in Sacramento at 11:40 PM would pause in Fresno overnight and leave early in the morning to arrive in Sacramento in time for a full day of work. They may also change the PM departure of the San Joaquin from Sacramento, which currently leaves at 5:10 PM, later to accommodate commuters and business travelers, although there is a 6:30 PM Ambus that leaves Sacramento to connect in Stockton.
 
The 11:40pm arrival in Sacramento is an important connection for passengers connecting to continue north on the Coast Starlight. I don't believe there would be serious consideration to eliminating this connection.
 
The 11:40pm arrival in Sacramento is an important connection for passengers connecting to continue north on the Coast Starlight. I don't believe there would be serious consideration to eliminating this connection.
It depends on how many people are currently using it for that purpose, though. I'm a little surprised that's even bookable, given that it's a 19-minute scheduled connection. A bit tight, especially for a connection to a once-a-day train. Nifty connection when it works, though.

Currently Amtrak.com allows you to book a San Joaquin --> Starlight connection in MTZ, but obviously this is more time-consuming. You could also preserve the connection with a Thruway bus from the train that is halted in Fresno, especially if you ran it as an express bus that only stopped in Modesto and Stockton (for example).

Bottom line, I don't think the Starlight connection is a deal-breaker for the proposal described in the OP. I suspect there's far more demand for an earlier arrival into SAC than for the middle-of-the-night connection to the Starlight. But that's purely a hunch on my part.
 
What looks like only a 19 minute scheduled connection is really not a problem, since the Starlight never leaves at 11:59pm. It's lucky if it even arrives at that time, and then there is a servicing stop that requires 20 to 30 minutes. The 11:59 scheduled time is a fiction, apparently used to help avoid confusion about what day the train departs. There is an extended discussion of this in another thread. On the rare times that the San Joaquin is late in arriving, the Starlight is held for the connection.
 
Absolutely, one of the biggest complaints SJJPA staff get is the lack of a direct train into Sacramento for meetings. A lot of politicians and government types would like to take the train for their 9 AM meetings or trainings but can't. The bus connection in Stockton is not seen as reliable. While there might be some super commuters who are doing Merced-Sacramento or Modesto-Sacramento commutes every day that would also welcome the service, most of these would be occasional travelers. The Starlight is also occasionally held up by the San Joaquin northbound connection. Having riders get off train 719 at Martinez at 8:59 to connect to the northbound Starlight at 10:46 does not duplicate any stations and is a reasonable connection.
 
The 11:40pm arrival in Sacramento is an important connection for passengers connecting to continue north on the Coast Starlight. I don't believe there would be serious consideration to eliminating this connection.
A connection northbound can also be made in Martinez as stated by calwatch. I think it's more reasonable as well.
 
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Currently, the plan is to arrive in Sacramento around 7:40 am so people can get to work at 8:00 am, thus necessitating leaving Fresno at around 4:30. In addition to breaking the Sacramento transfer to the midnight Coast Starlight (passengers would take the earlier Oakland train and transfer at Martinez), the final train (718) out of Oakland would terminate at Fresno, with the only bus to Southern California connecting to it there instead at Bakersfield. This would use the mid corridor layover location. SJJPA is also proposing a Bay Area mid-corridor express in 2019, which again would take a Bakersfield train and end it in Fresno. So with the proposed eight trains, you now have 6 going to Bakersfield and 2 ending in Fresno, at least for the time being. The third train will go to Sacramento but UP wants it to use the Sacramento subdivision instead of the current Fresno Sub, which means a different station in Sacramento at Midtown, but also allows a direct shot to continue to Marysville and points north.

The mid-corridor express would receive a bus from Los Angeles leaving around midnight, which provides another overnight alternative from Los Angeles to Sacramento, albeit with a mid-bus rousting at Fresno instead of transferring at Bakersfield.

The representative from Kern County at today's SJVRC meeting recommended running a Thruway bus from Madera to San Jose via the 152 corridor, which would save time over transferring at Stockton. On the other hand, he tried to sell it as a faster way for people to go from the Los Angeles basin to San Jose and the Bay Area, which I doubt with the two, maybe three transfers. As the discount bus operators have proliferated, the population doing Bay Area-LA trips has really declined from my experience. The primary market for the San Joaquins are intra-Valley travel or travel from the Valley to the Los Angeles basin or the Bay Area. The Bay Area-LA ground trips are predominantly made on the scenic route with the Starlight or Surfliner, or made quickly on Mega, Bolt, Xe Do Hoang, Greyhound, or one of the other Chinese carriers. While there are some people who take the San Joaquins to ride a train, from looking at the seat checks, most people are either alighting or boarding in the Central Valley. Also, although the San Joaquins have better distribution in the LA area with the Ventura/SFV, Westside/South Bay bus and SGV/Inland Empire bus, at least on the SGV/IE bus the ridership has been pretty poor for some time.
 
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