Sightseer & Lounge Cars-TX Eagle & Lakeshore Ltd

[Bill631]

I have a question regarding these two trains.

I just looked at the Amtrak website. When I looked at the details for the TX Eagle under the "Routes" section, it lists accomodations and amenities, and clearly lists a "Sightseer" car in addition to the dining car.

Does every TX Eagle have a sightseer car?

Then , I looked at the section for the Lakeshore Ltd., and under amenities all it said was "non-smoking". It didn't list either a dining car or lounge car!

Anyone know the details obn this? Surely the Lakeshore Ltd. has a dining and lounge car, but why doesn't the website show this?

I am going to be making reservations soon, and I'd really like to know exactly what I'll have on the train. I will call Amtrak at some point, but they usually say they don't know anymore than what the website says.

Thanks to all.

Bill

 

[AlanB]

The LSL does have a dining car and a lounge car, however the lounge car is not an Sightseer Lounge car, as this is a single level train, not a bi-level train.

The Texas Eagle should have a lounge car, assuming that it's not bad ordered.

 

[Windy City LSA]

The LSL does have a dining car and a lounge car, however the lounge car is not an Sightseer Lounge car, as this is a single level train, not a bi-level train.
The Texas Eagle should have a lounge car, assuming that it's not bad ordered.

Alan,

I am curious. What does a single level dining car look like...or is there a way to have a regular Superliner Dining Car in a single level consist?? I've never seen a single level diner. I can't picture where they do the food prep without a downstairs. Interesting. I've worked in single level cafe cars, so I'd imagine they're the same on there as the trains I've worked. I am not at all familiar with the LSL since OBS is not CHI based. I thought it was a LD train with sleeping accomodations.

Thanks!

 

[jamesontheroad]

There are some good photos of sigle level diners at the pages linked below, which has a great selection of good shots. The single level dining car is a member of the 'Heritage' (yes, that means 'older') fleet. The LSL uses them. The layout inside is similar to the stainless steel feet still used by VIA Rail Canada, with the space divided about 1/3 for the kitchen and 2/3 for the dining area. If I remember correctly there's an open counter from the servery end of the kitchen onto the corridor.

I enjoyed a very pleasant extended breakfast on a late running westbound LSL a few months back. I was just starting breakfast as we left Cleveland, which we'd normally have passed in darkness (read about it here).

http://www.trainweb.org/amtrakpix/locoshot...iner/8507A.html

http://www.trainweb.org/amtrakpix/locoshot...iner/8512A.html

*j* :blink:

 

[AlanB]

Well technically there would be a way to put a Superliner Diner on a single level train, by using a Trans/Dorm to transition from the single level cars to the diner. The only problem with this theory would be the fact that upon trying to enter NY's Penn Station, they would shear the roof off of the diner.

Now to answer your other question, one half of the car has seating, while the other half is the kitchen. Just like they do with the Bedrooms in a sleeper, the hall is shifted to one side of the car, while the kitchen occupies the rest of the width of the car.

I'll try to do some digging when I reach Chicago, as I think that I've got a picture of the inside of the car.

 

[jamesontheroad]

The only problem with this theory would be the fact that upon trying to enter NY's Penn Station, they would shear the roof off of the diner.

Why do you have to go and spoil a great idea like that with some niggling little detail...... :lol:

*j* :blink:

 

[Windy City LSA]

Thanks for the info and pictures!! Wow. It never ceases to amaze me...all of the different types of equipment that exist. I had NO IDEA there were single level diners.

For the record...I am aware about the clearance problem of Superliners out East. Somewhere along the way, somebody at work explained why Viewliners are used in the East. I only had the opportunity to see the outisde of Viewliners while working and waiting to depart at CUS.

 

[Bill Haithcoat]

Windy City, just for the record, sinigle level equipment is the historical norm iin this country, and not just because of tunnel clearances.

Going back before Amtrak(which began May 1971) most trains were single level. Up until the early 60's there were tons of trains all over the country going places they no longer go. Things started to get really bad for the train as highway and airways were improved.

Anyway, a small number of trains had what were called dome cars. Some dome cars were full length across the top of the car but most were shorter. For a good quick look at the shorter dome cars, call up the VIA Rail Canada spot and you should see what many such trains looked like in the U.S. some years ago. Trains were painted all kinds of colors, they were not all silver. (not even the streamliners).

Domes mostly went out west, where the scenery was considered more unique. Such a lines as CHI-LA, CHi-SF, CHi-SEA, etc. There were a few domes back east.When you call up the VIA site, you will see that most cars were not domes, just a few. That is fairly typical. Most domes were atop coaches, a few atop diners and lounges, fewer still atop sleepers. And there were NO domed sleeper rooms. Any dome atop a sleeper was just a row of coach-type seats.

Having domes was a mark that a traiin was "special"--not just any ordinary train had them. They were not to be taken for granted. Domes were invented about 1946.

I am sparing you the numerous details, just speaking in very broad generalities.

The Atchison Topeka and Santa Fe R.R. re-equipped it's El Capitan (a CHI-=LA streamliner) about 1956 as a double deck train (called Hi-Level) . Probably the first long distance double decker (there had been commuter trains so equipped). It was again partially re-equipped in 1965. Some of those cars made their way to Amtrak and were the inspiration for today's Superliners.

Anyway, I say all of that just to say that: most equipment has always been single level in this country. The Superliner concept beinig so widespread was new about the early 80's, I think..

 

[jamesontheroad]

If one thing Amtrak has got right, it's was to develop a two-level long distance train. The Superliner may be getting old now, but it's an incredibly ingenious and functional design that'll be around for many years yet, and is unique in the world. Back home in the UK, many rail companies would love to relieve congested commuter routes with double deck trains, but can't because of the hundreds of tunnels and bridges that were built before the idea was ever conceived.

Having said that, the French have managed to get a double deck train to over 320km/h (200mph) ... we can live in hope

*j* :blink:

 

[TransAtlantic]

actually, the "TGV Duplex" as it is called has only about 60% additional seating per car, due to the increase in necessary space for vertical circulation (i.e. stairs) and other systems; it was created primarily to allow trains to fit into "short" stations such as Marseille St. Charles and Nice (don't think they run it that far yet, but it's coming)

personally, I hate riding - and working - on bi-level equipment, as too often in this country it's like sitting on top of a flagpole, especially over rough track (Coast Starlight, anyone?) - give me a nice single-level Talgo or ICE any day...

 

[MrFSS]

Having said that, the French have managed to get a double deck train to over 320km/h (200mph) ... we can live in hope

How much headroom is there on each level of that type train? Do you have to bend over to walk the asile?

 

[AlanB]

If one thing Amtrak has got right, it's was to develop a two-level long distance train. The Superliner may be getting old now, but it's an incredibly ingenious and functional design that'll be around for many years yet, and is unique in the world. Back home in the UK, many rail companies would love to relieve congested commuter routes with double deck trains, but can't because of the hundreds of tunnels and bridges that were built before the idea was ever conceived.

Actually Amtrak didn't exactly develope the bi-level cars. The frieght RR's had them before Amtrak was formed, their useage however did not become widespread till Amtrak.

Two examples of the freight RR's bi-level passenger cars can still be seen on Amtrak today. One is the Pacific Parlour cars that were refurbished for use on the Coast Starlight. The second example are the cars used as coaches on the Heartland Flyer.

Returning to the topic of low tunnels, while one can't run the Superliners into Penn Station NY, the Long Island Railroad has developed a slighly shorter bi-level car that can fit into the tunnels without problem. They have been in use for a few years now.

Additionally, New Jersey Transit also has similar cars in production that should go into use later this year.

This design however would not work for Amtrak, as there is minimal room for luggage over the seats. They would have to remove seats to create a luggage storage area if they were to use this design. And the car shell would not work at all for a sleeper. There is already too little room in the upper bunk on a Superliner sleeper. With the shorter car shell, there would be no room at all in the upper bunk.

 

[AlanB]

Having said that, the French have managed to get a double deck train to over 320km/h (200mph) ... we can live in hope

How much headroom is there on each level of that type train? Do you have to bend over to walk the asile?

I can't speak to the French train, but the LIRR bi-level commuter cars are ok for anyone under 6', maybe 6' 1". If you're taller than that though, you must duck or smash your head.

 

[AlanB]

There are some good photos of sigle level diners at the pages linked below, which has a great selection of good shots. The single level dining car is a member of the 'Heritage' (yes, that means 'older') fleet. The LSL uses them. The layout inside is similar to the stainless steel feet still used by VIA Rail Canada, with the space divided about 1/3 for the kitchen and 2/3 for the dining area. If I remember correctly there's an open counter from the servery end of the kitchen onto the corridor.

Just to clarify things a bit, the pictures that you posted are of a Heritage diner that received what is called the Timoinsa rebuild. It has nice pleasing pink and green tones, with that open counter. When they first went into service after the rebuilding, there were five stools at that counter, such that single travelers could sit there for their meals.

Those stools were later removed for safety reasons. I guess they needed seat belts to keep the people on the stool. :lol:

Of 22 diners/diner-grills in service, half have received the Timoinsa rebuild. The other half remain as they were originally built. From the outside the cars look the same, but the insides are vastly different. Here are two photos that I took back in 2002 of an unrebuilt Heritage diner.

This one is looking towards the kitchen, with the kitchen to the left, the hallway to the next car to the right.

This one looks towards the table end of the car.

 

[The Chief]

Bill631,

In early June, 2006, I rode the Texas Eagle from Fort Worth to Chicago, and connected with the Lake Shore Ltd., to Springfield, Mass. Both trains had nice lounge cars, which I visited often when away from my Sleeper.

The Eagle had Superliner Sightseer Lounge No. 33018. The Lake Shore had a single-level Club-Dinette Amfleet Lounge No. 48185.

To build on what Bill Haithcoat ^ offered, the Budd-built Hi-Level coaches were introduced in 1954 on Santa Fe’s El Capitan with demo units. That train adopted a full fleet of the streamlined stainless 15.5-foot-tall cars in 1956, until its demise to Amtrak in 1971. The El Cap had Hi-Level Lounges and Dining Cars also -- “The Hi-Level Santa Fe Way.”

Interestingly, in 1964 the San Francisco Chief added Hi-Level coaches to its consist. That year Santa Fe ordered a couple dozen new Hi-Levels for El Cap (Nos. 17-18), and the San Francisco Chief (Nos. 1-2) picked up the former El Cap Hi-Level coaches. So two Santa Fe trains ran the forerunners to the Superliners. Santa Fe even had plans drawn for Hi-Level Sleepers for the Super Chief, but that never happened, because of the decline in revenue and advent of Amtrak.

As AlanB ^ pointed out, a transition car is necessary to allow passage from a Hi-Level/Superliner car to a single level car. There are archived records that show many San Francisco Chief consists with two transition cars, and the El Cap consist records show it sometimes ran with two transition cars. Not to Penn Station though.

The Atchison, Topeka and Santa Fe Hi-Level Lounges run today as Pacific Parlour Cars; they are the B-52s of the U.S. passenger car fleet, now on the Coast Starlight. Their service brethren, the Santa Fe El Capitan Hi-Level diners, were so heavy they required six-wheel trucks (50 percent more than the standard four-wheel truck). Talk about BUFFs.

 

[Boxcar]

Bill ..I might add to this also.

I just came off the Lakeshore on Friday last week and the Texas Eagle

this Thursday morning. The Lakeshore does have both but the lounge and diner but it is not a very good one for viewing. Like Chief said, it's a Club-Dinette Lounge and It's more like setting in a diner.

The Texas Eagle has a good sightseeing lounge but is getting a little tired and worn. You will love the viewliner sleepette much more than the one on Superliners.....BD