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Sleeper Pricing?

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Devil's Advocate

Sarcastic Misanthrope
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Partial routes? Keeping track of seventeen whole LD routes without AmSnag is bad enough, but do you realize how many partial routes there are in the entire Amtrak LD system? I'd guess there are several thousand of them.
Perhaps the problem is not the spreadsheet so much as your unexplained need to quantify an opinion.

I know - why don't you do something useful and poke around on Arrow and come up with the others?
Or maybe you could simply stop trying to gatekeep who can use which terms to describe a price increase.
 

willem

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Looks like there are actually about 7,288 of them on just the LD routes. I say about, because the R and D codes in the timetables can make for differences in the partial routes in a route, depending on the direction of travel.
Is the accommodation price always the same for the same level of service (bedroom, for example) between two points, regardless of direction of travel. (Of course, I'm assuming both ends allow both getting on and getting off. I'm not asking about impossible rides.)
 

Eric in East County

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I was looking this up not even noticing this thread was around...
Based on a 1920's pricing of the New York Central's 20th Century Limited cost adjusted for inflation came to this:
NY-CHI pricing with Pullman was about $550 one way.
Average dinner cost about $50 and breakfast was $20 for eggs and sausage.

Why bring this up? For some reason I didn't expect the cost to be close to Amtrak's current cost. Now I know there are trade offs: trains were faster and more reliable, better hospitality, etc. However the fact that one of the premier trains of the day is around the cost of current Amtrak service was surprising. Not to mention how much the meals were in comparison.
Don't forget, back then most everyone smoked so, if you were a non-smoker, you also got second hand smoke in the diner and the lounge cars. Given the choice, we would rather ride on AMTRAK than on one of the famous "name" trains of yesteryear.

Eric & Pat
 

Devil's Advocate

Sarcastic Misanthrope
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The Canadians were very friendly and the only real delay I had was when someone in front of me was causing a problem and they sent for more help to process the rest of the line.
He probably mentioned riding passenger trains for personal amusement like it was no big deal.

While entering Canada or UK I always say "to ride trains". The Canadians look at me like I have grown four heads.
Most countries only ask my duration, business/pleasure, or first stop if they ask anything at all. The few that ask about motive are usually fine with riding trains. Not sure why Canada decided that this was some sort of problem.
 
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niemi24s

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Is the accommodation price always the same for the same level of service (bedroom, for example) between two points, regardless of direction of travel. (Of course, I'm assuming both ends allow both getting on and getting off. I'm not asking about impossible rides.)
No, not always. I think that's because a partial route fare is linked to the whole route fare in that direction on that travel start date from the end point. So if the whole route fare is the same in the other direction the partial route fares would be the same. If not I'm quite sure they'd differ.

Then there's the complicating factor that some station pairs (partial routes) are served by as many as four different trains. In that case you could possibly have as many as four different fares for the same sleeper on the same day (back to daily service) in the same direction - I think. Even the same train (same consist but different train numbers) like the Texas Eagle, Empire Builder or Lake Shore Limited can have different fares for the same accommodation, in the same direction, on the same day of travel!

Nifty, eh?
 
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jis

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I applied for, and paid for, a Global Entry renewal last week... and within 36 hours, it had been renewed with no interview required.
Good to know.

I still have to figure out what theya re doing with people who were already in the application process when they canceled all interviews due to COVID.
 
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Bob Dylan

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In crossing into the US by train at various points, which I have done dozens of times, the main annoyance has been the amount of mindless silly questions that are asked. I am sure they serve some purpose somehow.

I find that the treatment at the Niagara Falls checkpoint has improved markedly after they moved to the new station, at least in my experience. maybe the quality of accommodation has an effect on how cranky they are. I could sympathize with that :)

Well, US being home they usually ask me what were you doing in <fill in wherever I am returning from>. Usually the answer is visiting family or riding trains. The latter always elicits further questions which leads to usually a nice short conversation. Of course these days this happens only when crossing back from Canada, since while arriving by air I don't get to meet a human being.

Which reminds me, I have to figure out how to get a renewal interview for Global Entry after I finish getting my vaccination. I apparently have till September to complete that.

While entering Canada or UK I always say "to ride trains". The Canadians look at me like I have grown four heads. In UK they ask me whereabout I am planning to ride. When I tell them something like "the Heart of Wales" line they often mention something that I ought to visit. Those agents are often remarkably knowledgeable about riding trains in the UK.
I would think the good folks in India would react the same way since Trains are such an important part of India's Daily life!
 

me_little_me

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No, not always. I think that's because a partial route fare is linked to the whole route fare in that direction on that travel start date from the end point. So if the whole route fare is the same in the other direction the partial route fares would be the same. If not I'm quite sure they'd differ.
It hasn't always been so and may not always be, even now. For example I remember when the sleeper fare from Anniston, AL heading north was cheaper than from Atlanta supposedly because Atlantans were grabbing all the sleepers and going all the way to DC or NYP. When living in Atlanta, I considered driving to Anniston to catch the train going the opposite way because of the lower price but a two-hour drive each way was not worth the savings to me.
 

jis

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I would think the good folks in India would react the same way since Trains are such an important part of India's Daily life!
Yeah but for me India is simply visiting home. I am never asked anything. There is no visa to check. Just record OCI Card and US Passport And then welcome home!
 

Barb Stout

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Is the accommodation price always the same for the same level of service (bedroom, for example) between two points, regardless of direction of travel. (Of course, I'm assuming both ends allow both getting on and getting off. I'm not asking about impossible rides.)
I'm not sure about accommodation (only) price, but when checking prices for the lowest bucket for Dec-Jan between New Orleans and Chicago and New Orleans and Deming, NM, I found that the prices were almost always higher going to New Orleans rather than away from New Orleans. I had checked the prices about twice a month from late January through July of 2020.
 

niemi24s

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I'm not sure about accommodation (only) price. . .
But you can be sure about that.

The fare differences you noticed in the CONO total fare were due only to differences in its "accommodation (only)" price. That's because sleeper fares are the sum of the bucket du jour for the sleeper and the rail (coach) fare. And the rail (coach) fare that's added remains constant and is the one shown below with the > symbol.
33 - 6 Sep 2020 Amtrak Fare Bucketsa.jpg
But it's possible for fares to change on a daily basis so you may have missed a lot of the days when it was higher going to Chicago. All this holds true as long as these trips were all on the CONO and not split up with the Illini or the Saluki (with no sleepers).

But your trips between New Orleans and Deming can be complicated by the fact that the trip can be done all the way in a sleeper two ways: Sunset limited all the way or that and the Texas Eagle. But without the aid of AmSnag I've not the patience to find out which travel direction is usually the most expensive using Arrow.
 

Barb Stout

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But you can be sure about that.

The fare differences you noticed in the CONO total fare were due only to differences in its "accommodation (only)" price. That's because sleeper fares are the sum of the bucket du jour for the sleeper and the rail (coach) fare. And the rail (coach) fare that's added remains constant and is the one shown below with the > symbol.
View attachment 20325
But it's possible for fares to change on a daily basis so you may have missed a lot of the days when it was higher going to Chicago. All this holds true as long as these trips were all on the CONO and not split up with the Illini or the Saluki (with no sleepers).

But your trips between New Orleans and Deming can be complicated by the fact that the trip can be done all the way in a sleeper two ways: Sunset limited all the way or that and the Texas Eagle. But without the aid of AmSnag I've not the patience to find out which travel direction is usually the most expensive using Arrow.
Yeah, I was using Amsnag to determine the day(s) with the lowest fare between Dec 15 and Jan 15. When Amsnag stopped working, I stopped my experiment. I also looked at coach fares and checking prior to May, going to NO was higher both in coach and roomette, but after May, they were the same. I looked at pricing for 2 people in coach and roomette. I did this in part to see if the previous allegation that pricing tends to drop at 5 months prior to travel compared to 6-11 months ahead of travel. We were going to do a circle trip between Deming, New Orleans, Chicago, and Albuquerque or the reverse direction. For some reason, I did not test the 2 directions between Chicago and Albuquerque. I don't remember why.
AmSnag Low Bucket Check
Date of checkChi to NOLNOL to ChiDem to NOLNOL to Dem
1/30/20 roomette$538$687
1/30/20 coach$350$230
2/10/20 roomette$538$687
2/10/20 coach$350$230
2/22/20 roomette$538$538$687$591
2/22/20 coach$350$276$230$230
3/17/2020 roomette$538$538$687$591
3/17/2020 coach$350$276$230$230
3/25/2020 roonette$538$538$687$591
3/25/20 coach$350$276$230$230
4/17/20 roomette$538$538$687$591
4/17/20 coach$350$276$230$230
5/16/20 roomette$487$487$591$591
5/16/2020 coach$220$220$230$230
5/28/20 roomette$494$494$603$603
5/28/20 coach$220$220$230$230
7/3/2020 roomette$494$494$603$603
7/3/2020 coach$220$220$230$230
 

Qapla

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Regardless of which bucket they use or how they base the fare to arrive at the cost of the sleeper on a given day and/or direction ... how many people would be will to pay the nightly cost of a sleeper for a room only the size of a living room sofa in a motel/hotel?

The fact is, sleepers are overpriced for the average person ... JMHO
 

Sidney

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Jul 12, 2020
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Of course the total price you see for a sleeper includes the Coach fare. Deduct that and for a rommette low bucket you are paying ,for example two extremes. New York to South Florida $340 for a one night trip on the Silvers and Los Angeles to Bloomington,Il $320 for a three night trip on the Eagle
That comes out to about$108 a night,which is probably the best bargain Amtrak has. Consider full service dining and that was quite a deal.Even with the substandard flex dining it"s pretty good.

On the other hand the sleeper fare from the Northeast to Florida is WAY overpriced and considering the crap food it's even worse

I 'll be on the TE to Chicago tomorrow
By switching to.Coach in Bloomington and paying $13 the remainder of the way I'm saving $139.





.
 

Barb Stout

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Of course the total price you see for a sleeper includes the Coach fare. Deduct that and for a rommette low bucket you are paying ,for example two extremes. New York to South Florida $340 for a one night trip on the Silvers and Los Angeles to Bloomington,Il $320 for a three night trip on the Eagle
That comes out to about$108 a night,which is probably the best bargain Amtrak has. Consider full service dining and that was quite a deal.Even with the substandard flex dining it"s pretty good.

On the other hand the sleeper fare from the Northeast to Florida is WAY overpriced and considering the crap food it's even worse

I 'll be on the TE to Chicago tomorrow
By switching to.Coach in Bloomington and paying $13 the remainder of the way I'm saving $139.
Hmm, good to know. Wonder how typical that $108 is or if it's an exceptional exception.
 

Sidney

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$448 senior fare is low bucket on 421to Bloomington from LA. It's $600 to Chicago. By playing around with city pairs on 421 I found it. At only $13 to get to Chicago in Coach,that's quite a savings. Seems thats the only LD route with that drop off in price.m
 
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