Speed Limit Change?

[RKA]

I will be leaving in about 10 days on a trip that will include riding the California Zephyr from Chicago to Emeryville. Amtrack called yesterday and said that beginning 11-1-2002 the Zephyrs’ scheduled arrival time in Emeryville would be 5:50 PM instead of 6:30 PM. The train would leave Chicago at the regular time. When I asked why? And how? The change, I was told, was that some trains’ speed limits was being raised to 90 MPH. That is all I know. Thought you would like to know.

RKA

 

[Superliner Diner]

While I am not doubting what RKA said, the response from Amtrak seems just a little bit fishy to me. First, the schedule change is October 27th, not November 1st, so it would seem odd that a speed limit change causing a schedule change would not take effect until 5 days later. Amtrak is not going to reprint their timetables 5 days after they have taken effect.

Secondly, why would Amtrak call about a change to arrival time, and one that is earlier? I would understand more if it were a change in departure time but coming into the destination station 40 minutes sooner can only be a pleasant surprise, and that assumes the train stays on time. If there is a 40-minute delay, considered very reasonable timekeeping for a 3-day trip, then guess what? No noticeable change.

And last, I strongly doubt that Amtrak telephone clerks know anything about the speed limits over freight railroads. I would bet if asked, that clerk did not know where the 90-mph limit was in effect, or what the limit was before it was raised. Trust me, the people on this board and other railfan forums know a lot more than the reservations people at Amtrak.

 

[Amfleet]

Amtrak should notify of any change. Even if a train is coming in 40 minutes early you would'nt what to have to wait for someone to pick you up. I do agree though that these reservationists have no clue whats going on.

 

[tp49]

I get it so now the on-time performance of this train will look much worse. Currently the Zephyr usually makes it to Sacramento around 5 PM. Unless the train leaves earlier that means if everything stayed the same the train would never be able to make it to Emeryville by 5:50 ever. Also, the train loses a time crossing the Sierra's from Reno where it cannot travel much faster than 15mph coming over the Donner Pass. This is just as bad as the current Coast Starlight schedule which has the train getting into Sac at 11:59 PM which may have only happened once since that change was made.

 

[Steve4031]

I am riding this train on November 8 from Chicago to Grand Junction. I am not aware of any changes to this part of the schedule. Even though it share its route with the Chief from Chicago to Galesburg, all of the 90 mph zones on the Chief's route occurs west of Galesburg on the ex ATSF lines.

On unrelated note, I read in todays Chicago Sun Times that Amtrak is testing trains for 110 mph on the Chicago St. Louis line. There are no trains scheduled for this speed yet.

 

[Steve4031]

I just checked Amtrak's reservation page. Here are results.

Chicago, ILLINOIS (CHI) Emeryville, CALIFORNIA (EMY) 2:15pm

10/23/02

6:30pm

10/25/02 cago at 2:15 on 10/23 arrives Grand Junction at 5:50

5

Chicago, ILLINOIS (CHI) Grand Junction, COLORADO (GJT) 2:15pm

10/23/02

5:35pm

10/24/02

5

Chicago, ILLINOIS (CHI) Emeryville, CALIFORNIA (EMY) 2:15pm

11/08/02

5:50pm

11/10/02

5

Chicago, ILLINOIS (CHI) Grand Junction, COLORADO (GJT) 2:15pm

11/08/02

5:15pm

11/09/02

As you can see, the train is schedule 20 minutes earlier into Grand Junction, and 40 earlier into Emeryville.

I wonder if the freight is coming off, and they are chipping away at the schedule. I know that the Chief sat in the yards for 90 minutes when I rode it last april, but was ontime into Albequerque. So maybe Amtrak is eliminating some padding in the schedule to accomodate the freight operations.

 

[Steve4031]

My ticketing information from my rail sale purchase made on October 10th supports the new schedule. Guys, this was in the works the whole time from what I can see. I thing I will haul ass to book a sleeper and get on that platform for the whole trip. HELL YEAH!

 

[RKA]

Everything I said in my post was true except the Nov. 1 beginning date. I will be boarding in Chicago on Nov. 6 so I assumed the change was Nov. 1. Sorry. I will be riding seven trains on my trip and the Zephyr is about in the middle. Some of the other legs had small changes, all arriving earlier. I agree with everything all of you said, however, please don’t kill the messenger.

RKA

 

[Superliner Diner]

RKA,

Don't worry. My target was not you; it was the Amtrak phone clerk you spoke to who gave you the information.

I wonder if the freight is coming off, and they are chipping away at the schedule. I know that the Chief sat in the yards for 90 minutes when I rode it last april, but was ontime into Albequerque. So maybe Amtrak is eliminating some padding in the schedule to accomodate the freight operations.

Steve has a valid point, with express coming off the trains, they should perform better because they won't be sitting in yards at the endpoint cities and in between while switching is done. And the lack of express may allow the train to operate faster since it will be lighter.

 

[Steve4031]

Too bad you were not the November 8 Zephyr. We could have hooked up for dinner in the diner.

 

[RKA]

Steve,

Sorry I'll miss you. I would have liked having dinner and talking trains. Maybe mext time.

RKA

 

[battalion51]

While I am not doubting what RKA said, the response from Amtrak seems just a little bit fishy to me. First, the schedule change is October 27th, not November 1st, so it would seem odd that a speed limit change causing a schedule change would not take effect until 5 days later. Amtrak is not going to reprint their timetables 5 days after they have taken effect.Secondly, why would Amtrak call about a change to arrival time, and one that is earlier? I would understand more if it were a change in departure time but coming into the destination station 40 minutes sooner can only be a pleasant surprise, and that assumes the train stays on time. If there is a 40-minute delay, considered very reasonable timekeeping for a 3-day trip, then guess what? No noticeable change.

And last, I strongly doubt that Amtrak telephone clerks know anything about the speed limits over freight railroads. I would bet if asked, that clerk did not know where the 90-mph limit was in effect, or what the limit was before it was raised. Trust me, the people on this board and other railfan forums know a lot more than the reservations people at Amtrak.

The reason why the change would take place on November 1, rather than October 27, is that is when the Union Pacific General Bulletin will be issued. It is at this time when the head dispatcher alerts all employees and tenants (Amtrak) that the track speed has increased to 90 MPH, officially. Unofficially Amtrak knows the change is coming so that it can change its timetables. That is why the change occurs on Friday November 1.

 

[Steve4031]

I still dont believe the track speed is being increased to 90. That is a lot of money and work for one passenger train a day. I think the freight is coming off of the back.

 

[battalion51]

Steve, I doubt that the speed is being increased for just the passenger trains. When the track is upgraded to Class IV standards it will allw freights to move at a higher speed as well (70 MPH if I'm not mistaken). This is primarily because UP wants to increase the speed of shipments from the west coast to Chicago.

 

[EmpireBuilderFan]

This is primarily because UP wants to increase the speed of shipments from the west coast to Chicago.

Man, I wish BNSF would have the same idea. 10 MPH makes a big difference when travelling across the plains states!

 

[Steve4031]

Steve, I doubt that the speed is being increased for just the passenger trains. When the track is upgraded to Class IV standards it will allw freights to move at a higher speed as well (70 MPH if I'm not mistaken). This is primarily because UP wants to increase the speed of shipments from the west coast to Chicago.

The Zephyr operates on UP's route through Moffat Tunnel and the rockies. UP's primary route to the west coast is the route that goes from Omaha, North Platte, Cheyenne, Rock Springs, and on west. I could see these upgrades being done on that route, but not on the Moffat tunnel route. There are few places where freights can go 70 mph until after Grand Junction. There is also few places where they would be able to build more sidings and infrastructure because of the narrow canyons that this route passes through.

Now if BNFS is doing something on its Chicago to Denver route, it would be possible to operate at 90 MPH then. But we (the railfan community) have heard absolutely nothing about this kind of effort for either the BNFS or UP, except for UP's Nebraska route which was upgraded a few years back.

Thus, I think Amtrak is eliminating the Freight traffic from this route because this would easily eliminate the need for station dwell time in Chicago, Denver, Salt Lake City, etc.

 

[Steve4031]

I just did a comparison of the old and new Amtrak schedules for the Zephyr. The Oct. 28 schedule (new one) is identical to the old schedule from Chicago to Omaha. Then the difference occurs. On the old schedule, 5 departs Omaha at 11:37 p.m. and arrives Lincoln at 1:33 A.M. On the new schedule, 5 departs Omaha at 11:37 P.M. and arrives Lincoln at 1:03 A.M., a reduction of 30 minutes. The distance betweeen the two stops is 55 miles.

I know that the Chief has lengthy stop just west of Kansas City to switchout some of those freight cars. I dont know if 5 had a similar operation, but this would be my guess that the curtailment of such an operation could result in the 30 minute schedule reduction.