Sudden Cancellation of Empire Builder from July 12th to ~July 16th? *Update* Maybe have been a whoopsie due to planned track maintenance!

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jebr said:
One other note: if you booked it with a credit card, check with your credit card issuer to see if they offer trip delay or trip cancellation insurance. Some cards do, and that might help pay for some or all of the flight since the train was cancelled if your travel insurance doesn't cover it.
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Na we used a debit card (I was an idiot right out of college when i got my first cards and racked up a ton of debt that im paying off either straight up, or via debt management plans)
 
There is obviously some glitch going on with Arrow.

Nuger, there is definitely a system issue with Arrow and it may not reflect operational conditions on the ground. This could easily be a computer artifact only. I fully realize it is a major issue for you and impacts you badly. You may need to get alternative arrangements nailed down for cost or other reasons. However, with that said, if you can hold on and check it over the next few days, they may get it resolved one way or another, either showing an actual cancelled train or fixing whatever is causing an operational train to show as cancelled in certain parts of the system. Personally, my opinion is there is at least a 50/50 chance that this is a computer artifact only. I know that is cold comfort.

One piece of advice, though. For now, I'd strongly recommend stopping trying change the reservation to troubleshoot it. You may end up falling through cracks as the situation with the system evolves and make things worse for yourself. View all you want, try all the phantom bookings you want, but leave your reservation alone for now.
 
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zephyr17 said:
There is obviously some glitch going on with Arrow.

Nuger, there is definitely a system issue with Arrow and it may not reflect operational conditions on the ground. This could easily be a computer artifact only. I fully realize it is a major issue for you and impacts you badly. You may need to get alternative arrangements nailed down for cost or other reasons. However, with that said, if you can hold on and check it over the next few days, they may get it resolved one way or another, either showing an actual cancelled train or fixing whatever is causing an operational train to show as cancelled in certain parts of the system. I know that is cold comfort.
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I mean if the return is cancelled, I have a few day buffer for alternate transportation (i dont have to be back to Washington until the 15th). But at the same time, it think its definitely good to bring light to these types of glitches, as its these glitches that can prvent new riders from adopting train riding (especially since some routes are becoming cheaper than planes for random days and people like me that just build buffers in out of habit because im so used to stuff going wrong on trips, it works).
Im a huge rail fan (i have a model of the old Milwaukee road's Olympic Hiawatha train with a custom display built by a guy from Etsy that makes it look likes its going through the hills between Montana and Idaho), which is part of why i joined groups that push for more funding to Amtrak.

the 27 suddenly became bookable after beeing sold out for months so im not sure whats happening.
 
Weird stuff going on, it definitely sounds like a Computer System Glitch if it's now showing its Bookable!

With the 4th of July Holiday shutting down the Offices in DC till Tuesday the 5th, the Suits need to take care of this PDQ, like Today!!!🤬
 
Maybe this is the net outcome of everyone with deep Arrow knowledge having departed Amtrak. With the loss of institutional knowledge and scant availability of old documentation of every hack put in to solve specific problems, now is the time when things may be coming home to roost where a new green crew has to figure it out by trial and error. Just a speculation, but I have seen such happen at more than one reputable IT outfits.
 
Completely agree that glitches such as this need to be highlighted and am glad you posted here. I'd tweet it with an #Amtrak, too. They tend to pay more attention to social media.



This is a bad glitch. Between this and the 5/6 30 car issue shows somebody is really falling down on the job with Arrow data maintenance.
 
Bob Dylan said:
Weird stuff going on, it definitely sounds like a Computer System Glitch if it's now showing its Bookable!

With the 4th of July Holiday shutting down the Offices in DC till Tuesday the 5th, the Suits need to take care of this PDQ, like Today!!!🤬
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Agreed!! a gltich this close to departure is dangerous too! 10 days isnt a very big amount of time for the average person to make alternate arrangements if the route were legit cancelled.
 
Bob Dylan said:
Weird stuff going on, it definitely sounds like a Computer System Glitch if it's now showing its Bookable!

With the 4th of July Holiday shutting down the Offices in DC till Tuesday the 5th, the Suits need to take care of this PDQ, like Today!!!🤬
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The Suits don't have the skills to fix it.

Hopefully, it is getting noticed somewhere in IT and whoever nuger93 contacted at the call center put in a trouble ticket and it got enough priority to start phones ringing to those with the skills. There are going to be people who are on call despite the holiday.
 
zephyr17 said:
The Suits don't have the skills to fix it.

Hopefully, it is getting noticed somewhere in IT and whoever nuger93 contacted at the call center put in a trouble ticket and it got enough priority to start phones ringing to those with the skills. There are going to be people who are on call despite the holiday.
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But they DO have the ability to put out Correct Info explaining this Cluster Flub and what's actually going on and to contact all the folks Booked on this Route with said Info.! ( Left Hand not knowing what the Right one is doing!)
 
zephyr17 said:
The Suits don't have the skills to fix it.

Hopefully, it is getting noticed somewhere in IT and whoever nuger93 contacted at the call center put in a trouble ticket and it got enough priority to start phones ringing to those with the skills. There are going to be people who are on call despite the holiday.
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I did send a tweet to Amtrak, so maybe on of them will send something along to IT to make sure they are actually cancelled vs glitchy mcglitchies. Told them it would help travelers if they knew to wait it out or make new plans.
 
Bob Dylan said:
But they DO have the ability to put out Correct Info explaining this Cluster Flub and what's actually going on and to contact all the folks Booked on this Route with said Info.! ( Left Hand not knowing what the Right one is doing!)
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THIS!!! like if they know its just a glitch and the route isnt actually cancelled, they could send a message to everyone to just hold on to their tickets and that theyll be honored at the station.

Its PR 101. Something goes wrong, own up to it, explain whats happening and make it right. Its why people go back to Southwest airlines despite thier spotty service. the PR is good.
 
nuger93 said:
Its PR 101. Something goes wrong, own up to it, explain whats happening and make it right. Its why people go back to Southwest airlines despite thier spotty service. the PR is good.
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Yes, but that is assuming they know. Unfortunately, problems such as these are first apparent to the end user and awareness trickles up as the trouble gets reported and then reported upwards.

Hopefully, they will makes such a response once management becomes aware what happened. At best, they only may be getting notified about now.

But that is assuming they have a culture of owning up to problems. I don't think they do.
 
zephyr17 said:
Yes, but that is assuming they know. Unfortunately, problems such as these are first apparent to the end user and awareness trickles up as the trouble gets reported and then reported upwards.

Hopefully, they will makes such a response once management becomes aware what happened. At best, they only may be getting notified about now.
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The Operations people are on duty 24/7, and I'm sure that Customer Services/Relations and AGR have been made aware of this Mess by Ticketed Passengers, so the Suits on this Route and in DC, should already have taken care of this, IF there has been Communication between Fifedoms, which is always an iffy thing in Big Organizations!!!!????
 
It would have started with Customer Service and AGR, who presumably submitted trouble tickets. Then the tickets get prioritized (which can be the biggest hurdle), then queued based on priority and assigned out. Typically, if a ticket gets sufficient priority there is automatic management notification. It all can take awhile. Operations is there 24/7 and Data Center Operations would be, too, but they wouldn't know about something like this until a trouble ticket gets to them. It all takes awhile, that is why I said that it may only be about now that even mid-level IT managers are getting notified if the issue started yesterday when nuger93 ran into it, and assuming whoever he got on the phone submitted a ticket.

Now if Arrow just up and crashed it would be immediately noticed by Data Center Operations and it would be a priority 1 ticket and would get immediate attention. This is a much more subtle issue, and won't have that kind of priority until a knowledgeable person gets the ticket and looks at it.

Trouble reporting is usually pretty standardized and can be quite bureaucratic. Picking up the phone to report something ad hoc without a ticket is often a no-no.
 
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I'm concerned. I thought it was just the phone app not working. When I go online my reservation still shows up. I'm traveling on July 21. Guess I need to call amtrak to check.
 
Nleprohn said:
I'm concerned. I thought it was just the phone app not working. When I go online my reservation still shows up. I'm traveling on July 21. Guess I need to call amtrak to check.
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Since the problem is apparently in Arrow itself and not in the website wraparound, based on nuger93's reporting of the call center's response, you won't get any different response from the call center.

You have every right to be concerned, but you should probably hold off a couple of days to give the situation a chance to get resolved. The call center only knows what Arrow tells them, and right now Arrow appears to be bollixed up as regards the Empire Builder.

Of course, you could always pile on with nuger93 on twitter with #Amtrak about what your phone app said. That may help up the priority as Amtrak, like most companies, pays more attention to social media.
 
Nleprohn said:
I'm concerned. I thought it was just the phone app not working. When I go online my reservation still shows up. I'm traveling on July 21. Guess I need to call amtrak to check.
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My return would only show up on the Bid up side of things, otherwise it just showed up as service cancelled. and i couldnt make changes to it.
 
zephyr17 said:
Since the problem is apparently in Arrow itself and not in the website wraparound, based on nuger93's reporting of the call center's response, you won't get any different response from the call center.

You have every right to be concerned, but you should probably hold off a couple of days to give the situation a chance to get resolved. The call center only knows what Arrow tells them, and right now Arrow appears to be bollixed up as regards the Empire Builder.

Of course, you could always pile on with nuger93 on twitter with #Amtrak about what your phone app said. That may help up the priority as Amtrak, like most companies, pays more attention to social media.
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I agree with You man! I pulled the trigger too fast. But it is what it is. the refund let me make sure i had enough funds to make the upgrade to a roomette going to MSP (ive only ever ridden coach). And we have a confirmed flight out a few days later. so if there really is a service disruption, were good. If not, well im going to use it to my adavantage to catch a Saint Paul Saints game and just enjoy not being on a train or on the move for a couple days.
 
Triley said:
Alright all, I checked in to it. We can end the doom and gloom. There was going to be bus bridge due to track work, but the track work was rescheduled for hours the train doesn't run.

In short, service will run as scheduled! :)
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Good to know, but what's the source?

PS. I still am of the opinion Amtrak IT has an issue. Something never should have been half updated. Action should have been held off until it was a certainty and then show as cancelled everywhere on the system, or shown with a bus bridge without full cancellation, whatever reflected the intended operational scheme. The way it was handled on the IT side was simply incompetent. I am actually more concerned with the IT side of this and the 30 car issue on 5/6 than the train operation itself. If the system is presenting bad information, the passengers are still likely to get screwed even if the train runs correctly, witness the passengers who had reserved rooms and didn't get them on 5/6, or nuger93 cancelling part of his trip in response to bad information. And neither the website nor Amtrak agents have any information beyond what the core system of record, Arrow, presents to them, be it correct or incorrect.
 
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zephyr17 said:
Good to know, but what's the source?

PS. I still am of the opinion Amtrak IT has an issue. Something never should have been half updated. Action should have been held off until it was a certainty and then show as cancelled everywhere on the system, or shown with a bus bridge without full cancellation, whatever reflected the intended operational scheme. The way it was handled on the IT side was simply incompetent. I am actually more concerned with the IT side of this and the 30 car issue on 5/6 than the train operation itself. If the system is presenting bad information, the passengers are still likely to get screwed even if the train runs correctly, witness the passengers who had reserved rooms and didn't get them on 5/6, or nuger93 cancelling part of his trip in response to bad information. And neither the website nor Amtrak agents have any information beyond what the core system of record, Arrow, presents to them, be it correct or incorrect.
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A supervisor for the Builder is the source, if that's good.

I'm not here to debate IT issues either. Just to pass on the news that the train will be operating in its entirety as originally planned.
 

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