Sunset East: Good news for a change?

[Green Maned Lion]

I don't understand the big deal here. The tracks are still in place and being used by CSX for freight. The only problem appears to be that the signaling needs to be fixed to enable passenger service. They need not reinvent the wheel to get the Sunset Limited running. Some necessary signaling repair work and they should be able to run. At least that's the way I understand it.

The unsignaled areas have NEVER been signaled. Since Katrina, the rules have changed, and hence the new expense.

 

[saxman]

The Sunset currently has 5 trainsets allocated to it. Ths Sunset still has 5 trainsets allocated to it because they've never undone things from when it ran through to Orlando. And back then with the delays at that time, they needed 5 trainsets.
This is why if you pick the correct day to visit NOL, you'll find 2 Sunset Limited trainsets sitting in the yard.

Alan you can delete my posts all you want as you are the administrator and it's your 'toy', but it's still four sets.

I can't remember if it's four or five sets, but I think I sat down once to figure out if the set overnights in LAX. I think it does actually for two nights.

I also had list written down of the number of sleeping cars and coaches being repaired in Beach Grove. There are enough sleeping cars to make the Sunset Limited daily from NOL to LAX, and still have enough left over to add one sleeper to the PDX section of the Empire Builder. However I do not think there are enough to keep a through car from the Texas Eagle to go west from SAS, if the Sunset ran daily, NOL to LAX. Now I'm not sure which is better-force people off from in SAS from the Eagle to go west or force people off from the stub train to go west.

For the record, this was not TEMPO's plan. The only thing TEMPO endorses is keeping the Texas Eagle name. I'm not really sure what TEMPO's exact stance on this issue is either.

And my own opinion is that Amtrak will indeed come to Texas and ask for them to help pay for this train. With the cutting of the Sunset east, and now this plan, it only makes sense to me now that this was kind of their plan all along- to push off operating costs to the states. It's really a shame they want to do this with the Sunset Limited. This route runs through some of the fastest growing areas of the country, and I bet if Amtrak "revamped" this route as a premiere train like the EB and CS, the Sunset Limited will have ridership and revenue through the roof.

At first I was all for this plan, and believe me. I will look forward to daily service from Dallas to LAX with a real dining car. And I think many more local trips will be gained from the daily stub train too. And perhaps one day have the equipment to have daily ORL-LAX service with through cars from the Eagle (and perhaps even the CONO to go to Florida) But it's this requirement that Amtrak push all corridor trains costs off to the states, that has me against this plan.

 

[Green Maned Lion]

Amtrak is only required to do this if it is a Corridor train (more than one daily frequency, definitionally), AND that train runs a distance under 500 miles. The NOL-SAS train meets neither item. I don't think this is part of Amtrak's plan. Truthfully, only two trains are really affected by this- the Wolverines and the Empire Service trains. And a lot of people don't disagree that Michigan and New York should, respectively, be paying for them.

 

[saxman]

Amtrak is only required to do this if it is a Corridor train (more than one daily frequency, definitionally), AND that train runs a distance under 500 miles. The NOL-SAS train meets neither item. I don't think this is part of Amtrak's plan. Truthfully, only two trains are really affected by this- the Wolverines and the Empire Service trains. And a lot of people don't disagree that Michigan and New York should, respectively, be paying for them.

I'm not sure where it says two or more trains a day means its a corridor train. Are the Heartland Flyer, Pere Marquette, Blue Water, and the Pennsy not considered corridor trains?

And I'm pretty sure the requirement is for trains under 750 miles.

 

[Guest]

It is insane to me. Texas is the second largest state and fastest growing state. Texas will gain 4

House representives. Yet Amtrak feels the need to screw the state out of a LD train. If anything,

the TE should extended to Brownsville via Corpus Christi/Padre Islands. Sunset should be coast to coast daily.

Ofcourse when equipment becomes available.

 

[Green Maned Lion]

Amtrak is only required to do this if it is a Corridor train (more than one daily frequency, definitionally), AND that train runs a distance under 500 miles. The NOL-SAS train meets neither item. I don't think this is part of Amtrak's plan. Truthfully, only two trains are really affected by this- the Wolverines and the Empire Service trains. And a lot of people don't disagree that Michigan and New York should, respectively, be paying for them.

I'm not sure where it says two or more trains a day means its a corridor train. Are the Heartland Flyer, Pere Marquette, Blue Water, and the Pennsy not considered corridor trains?

And I'm pretty sure the requirement is for trains under 750 miles.

The Heartland Flyer, Pere Marqutte, and Blue Water are certainly not. The Pennsy might be because it is part of the Keystone, but I don't think so. Those three are state supported, but not Corridor. Of course, all currently state supported trains remain so.

But if the requirement was under 750, then... the Northeast Corridor would have to become state funded. Which isn't going to happen.

 

[Green Maned Lion]

It is insane to me. Texas is the second largest state and fastest growing state. Texas will gain 4House representives. Yet Amtrak feels the need to screw the state out of a LD train. If anything,

the TE should extended to Brownsville via Corpus Christi/Padre Islands. Sunset should be coast to coast daily.

Ofcourse when equipment becomes available.

Naturally, the Super Chief and 20th Century Limited should also be restored as extra-fare, all-sleeper, extra-fast trains, monetary loss be damned.

 

[jis]

It is insane to me. Texas is the second largest state and fastest growing state. Texas will gain 4House representives. Yet Amtrak feels the need to screw the state out of a LD train. If anything,

the TE should extended to Brownsville via Corpus Christi/Padre Islands. Sunset should be coast to coast daily.

Ofcourse when equipment becomes available.

I f you are really serious go and join TEMPO and share your ideas with them and convince them of their viability. They are the ones that pretty much define and influence the political destiny of the Texas Eagle.

 

[jis]

The Heartland Flyer, Pere Marqutte, and Blue Water are certainly not. The Pennsy might be because it is part of the Keystone, but I don't think so. Those three are state supported, but not Corridor.

The Pennsy is an Amtrak system train, and is not funded out of the Keystone Program by Pennsylvania. It historically dates back to the original network on Amtrak Day in 1971. Look it up in the 1971 timetable. Its name is different, but it is there.

 

[had8ley]

I don't understand the big deal here. The tracks are still in place and being used by CSX for freight. The only problem appears to be that the signaling needs to be fixed to enable passenger service. They need not reinvent the wheel to get the Sunset Limited running. Some necessary signaling repair work and they should be able to run. At least that's the way I understand it.

The only "signaling" that needs to be added is installation of Positive Train Control and that is not required to be completed, according to the FRA, until 2012. I do not know the correlation between track signals and PTC; if signals are needed then the CSXT is really going to dip into Amtrak's pocket IF the Sunset ever goes east again. (250 miles of track signaling is a very expensive venture.)

 

[Guest]

It is insane to me. Texas is the second largest state and fastest growing state. Texas will gain 4House representives. Yet Amtrak feels the need to screw the state out of a LD train. If anything,

the TE should extended to Brownsville via Corpus Christi/Padre Islands. Sunset should be coast to coast daily.

Ofcourse when equipment becomes available.

Naturally, the Super Chief and 20th Century Limited should also be restored as extra-fare, all-sleeper, extra-fast trains, monetary loss be damned.

Well if we are counting nickels and dimes, then all Amtrak and Commuter trains should be killed. We

don't want to damn monetary losses.

 

[jis]

Well if we are counting nickels and dimes, then all Amtrak and Commuter trains should be killed. Wedon't want to damn monetary losses.

And shut down all the roads too while you are at it. Afterall they are also a major sink for money. Just stuff all that money in mattresses and bounce along on them :lol:

 

[Guest]

Well if we are counting nickels and dimes, then all Amtrak and Commuter trains should be killed. Wedon't want to damn monetary losses.

And shut down all the roads too while you are at it. Afterall they are also a major sink for money. Just stuff all that money in mattresses and bounce along on them :lol:

Shut down the whole government. lol

 

[Green Maned Lion]

The Pennsy is an Amtrak system train, and is not funded out of the Keystone Program by Pennsylvania. It historically dates back to the original network on Amtrak Day in 1971. Look it up in the 1971 timetable. Its name is different, but it is there.

I know that, but I'm not sure what it would qualify as under the new legislation. I'd tend to suspect you're right, though.

Well if we are counting nickels and dimes, then all Amtrak and Commuter trains should be killed. Wedon't want to damn monetary losses.

The key here, as anywhere, is "reasonable." Amtrak must aim for the highest financial efficiency versus passenger load possible. What you are looking for here doesn't seem to fit that.

 

[AlanB]

Well if we are counting nickels and dimes, then all Amtrak and Commuter trains should be killed. Wedon't want to damn monetary losses.

And shut down all the roads too while you are at it. Afterall they are also a major sink for money. Just stuff all that money in mattresses and bounce along on them :lol:

In fact, what the Fed spent last year on highways would have paid to run every transit system in the country with money to spare; $30 billion to spare in fact when taking into account the revenue collected. And the definition of transit system is any system that runs buses, trains, ferries, senior/handicapped service, monorail, or any combination thereof.

 

[Guest]

The Pennsy is an Amtrak system train, and is not funded out of the Keystone Program by Pennsylvania. It historically dates back to the original network on Amtrak Day in 1971. Look it up in the 1971 timetable. Its name is different, but it is there.

I know that, but I'm not sure what it would qualify as under the new legislation. I'd tend to suspect you're right, though.

Well if we are counting nickels and dimes, then all Amtrak and Commuter trains should be killed. Wedon't want to damn monetary losses.

The key here, as anywhere, is "reasonable." Amtrak must aim for the highest financial efficiency versus passenger load possible. What you are looking for here doesn't seem to fit that.

You or Amtrak do not know if it doesn't fit. Amtrak started out giving Texas crappy passenger train service then scratched their heads to why

the numbers weren't great. Amtrak was FORCED to upgrade the TE resulting in a much improved train and numbers. How about doing the same

to the Sunset? Nope, Amtrak is planning to do the opposite. Downgrade the Sunset to a daily stub which will result in a crappier train and worse

numbers.

 

[NE933]

Amtrak was FORCED to upgrade the TE resulting in a much improved train and numbers. How about doing the sameto the Sunset? Nope, Amtrak is planning to do the opposite. Downgrade the Sunset to a daily stub which will result in a crappier train and worse numbers.

Could it be me and da guest agree on something? Well, let's see: yes the Texas Eagle was 'born' after Sen. Hutchinson forced Amtrak to do it; it's a shame that one must rely on such techniques, yet will gladly use them if provoked enough.

Now as for the Sunset, I'd love to see it go to Florida again. But here we must pick between the lesser of two evils, and if making this train daily is the result, then that might be a good trade-off. However, if i were holding the cards, would require that within 6 months the daily train by whatever name is kept, and, some incarnation of pre-Katrina service run between Orlando and New Orleans. Make it tri-weekly, make it a coach train if it must be, but run something. Then, within 1 yr from that, either make the Gulf section daily, carry sleepers and dining cars, or both.

Sorry to tweak your nerves, but this is what I was getting at before with Boardman's sometimes malaise. Not only does he not talk about restoring the Sunset back to the Gulf Coast, but he forcefully avoids the issue and changes the subject when queried. If I'm wrong, then someone please cite an example to the contrary. Thanks.