Sunset Limited and the Mighty Mississippi

[John Bobinyec]

Some family members have a trip on the Crescent and the Sunset Limited next month. Which of these cross the Mississippi? Where? On the Huey P. Long bridge? We're concerned about the river flooding.

Thanks,

John Bobinyec

 

[jis]

Some family members have a trip on the Crescent and the Sunset Limited next month. Which of these cross the Mississippi? Where? On the Huey P. Long bridge? We're concerned about the river flooding.

Thanks,

John Bobinyec

The Crescent does not cross the Mississippi. Sunset crosses the Mississippi on the Huey P. Long Bridge. But more importantly, the Sunset crosses the Atchafalaya River and Basin on a long trestle/causway and that Basin is likely to flood if the Morganza Spillway is opened to relieve pressure on the area downriver, i.e. Baton Rouge and New Orleans. But hoopefully all this be a thing of the past by the next month.

 

[Pat Harper]

Some family members have a trip on the Crescent and the Sunset Limited next month. Which of these cross the Mississippi? Where? On the Huey P. Long bridge? We're concerned about the river flooding.

The Crescent crosses the river by going over Lake Ponchartrain. The Sunset Limited doesn't cross the Mississippi. It goes west to New Iberia before heading for Lafayette.

 

[Shanghai]

Pat, did you have geography when you were in school?

 

[Tracktwentynine]

Some family members have a trip on the Crescent and the Sunset Limited next month. Which of these cross the Mississippi? Where? On the Huey P. Long bridge? We're concerned about the river flooding.

The Crescent crosses the river by going over Lake Ponchartrain. The Sunset Limited doesn't cross the Mississippi. It goes west to New Iberia before heading for Lafayette.

Not correct.

Lake Ponchartrain is not a part of the Mississippi River. It is north of New Orleans. The Crescent does cross it on its way into the Big Easy.

The Mississippi River is on the south side of New Orleans. Since the Crescent does not continue beyond New Orleans, it does not cross the Mighty Mississippi. The Sunset Limited, on the other hand, does cross it. And it crosses it on the Huey P Long Bridge.

 

[henryj]

If the Huey P. Long bridge goes under the whole world will be flooded. It's hundreds of feet above the Mississippi. :giggle: Will be interesting to see if they have to suspend service on the Sunset route because of the flooding. If they suspend it....will it ever be restored or will it just disapear like the service to Florida after Katrina?

 

[jis]

If the Huey P. Long bridge goes under the whole world will be flooded. It's hundreds of feet above the Mississippi. :giggle: Will be interesting to see if they have to suspend service on the Sunset route because of the flooding. If they suspend it....will it ever be restored or will it just disapear like the service to Florida after Katrina?

Any Sunset suspension will not be due to flooding at the Mississippi Channel by Huey P. Long Bridge. If at all there is any suspension (though unlikely) it will be due to flooding in the Atchafalaya Basin way west of New Orleans.

 

[Ryan]

If at all there is any suspension (though unlikely) it will be due to flooding in the Atchafalaya Basin way west of New Orleans.

I've spent a good portion of my morning reading about this - fascinating stuff! I read a book (fiction) whose plotline revolved around someone purposefully redirecting the Mississippi into the Atchafalaya for profit, but had no idea how grounded in reality it was.

My morning:

 

[Tracktwentynine]

If at all there is any suspension (though unlikely) it will be due to flooding in the Atchafalaya Basin way west of New Orleans.

I've spent a good portion of my morning reading about this - fascinating stuff! I read a book (fiction) whose plotline revolved around someone purposefully redirecting the Mississippi into the Atchafalaya for profit, but had no idea how grounded in reality it was.

I have too. Despite reading the Washington Post article yesterday (I think it was yesterday), I saw no mention of the possibility that these floods could actually move (permanently) the main channel of the Mississippi to the Achafalaya River. So I was a bit surprised to read about that this morning on the internet. This apparently almost happened during the 1973 floods. And it will likely happen if the Army Corps of Engineers loses control of the river at the Old River Control Station.

Regardless of the permanent course change, if the Army Corps of Engineers loses control of the river at ORCS, the flooding could certainly wash out transportation infrastructure over the Achafalaya. And if the change was permanent, that disruption (flood stage) could go on for a while. That would make it difficult to restore infrastructure across the river.

Hopefully, it won't come to that, though. I suppose we'll know how bad it will be in a few days.

Here are some interesting links about it:

http://blog.xkcd.com/2011/05/08/michael-bays-scenario/

http://www.americaswetlandresources.com/background_facts/detailedstory/LouisianaRiverControl.html

 

[jis]

I had read about the whole Atchafalaya problem, which BTW is not new. It's been an issue for at least a century now, in a Scientific American article at least 20 years back! I have ever since been fascinated by it because of my inherent connection with meandering streams in Deltas of big rivers.

I am born in such a land half way around the world. The Bengal Estuary which consists of the joint Delta of the Ganges and the Bramhaputra/Yarlung Tsngpo, is partly in India and partly in Bangladesh. I have heard stories from my Mom on how she has seen acres of land disappear into the river in front of her eyes in a blink. When tidal boars come up the river the Meteorological Service notifies Calcutta, and many streets including some major ones are known to get flooded knee deep with regularity.

Also seen the Farakka Barrage built to divert flow from the main channel of the Ganaga that flows into Bangladesh into Hooghly, the channel that flows through Calcutta, to keep the Calcutta Port alive - sort of similar to why the Atchafalaya Channel is blocked off by the Army Corp of Engineers to keep the New Orleans port alive. There is an old disused channel of the Ganga that flows through south Calcutta, and is currently being used as the RoW for extension of the Calcutta Metro on an elevated structure. And the land around there is strewn with old or dormant channels, oxbow lakes and fascinating swamps all over the place. As you get closer to the sea the landscape changes to Mangrove Swamps, and that is where the famous Royal Bengal Tigers reside, among other fascinating creatures and plants!

Anyway, way off topic, so back to the original topic.

 

[henryj]

If the Huey P. Long bridge goes under the whole world will be flooded. It's hundreds of feet above the Mississippi. :giggle: Will be interesting to see if they have to suspend service on the Sunset route because of the flooding. If they suspend it....will it ever be restored or will it just disapear like the service to Florida after Katrina?

Any Sunset suspension will not be due to flooding at the Mississippi Channel by Huey P. Long Bridge. If at all there is any suspension (though unlikely) it will be due to flooding in the Atchafalaya Basin way west of New Orleans.

The Sunset route from Lafayette passes way to the south. I would think the long 20 mile I10 bridge east of Lafayette would be more the target.

 

[nolatron]

Just for a visual, this is the Huey P Long Bridge.

The Sunset Limited crosses it ~20mins after it leaves UPT. Saw it today actually going up the foot of the bridge.

But the MS River posses no thread to the Sunset Limited. However, as mentioned, the Atchafalaya basin does. The Sunset Limited reaches the basin about 2 hours after departure when it passes Morgan City. The basin is about 20 miles wide and tracks are all at grade here except for where they a cross a small water way.

With the opening of the Morganza Spillway this weekend, the basin could see flooding anywhere from 5-20' of water. So there's a very high chance BNSF's tracks are gonna get submerged (and possibly for a while), suspending the Sunset Limited and freight.

The Crescent doesn't cross the river, only Lake Pontchartrain between NOLA and Slidell. It does cross an inner channel that connects the River to the Lake but I don't think the rising river would cause a problem there. The drawbridge is quit a ways down the channel right on the lake.

So Crescent is most likely safe, the Sunset Limited has a high chance of a service disruption about 3 days after the Morganza spillway opens and water first reaches that area.

 

[TacoMan]

If the Huey P Long Bridge goes under I hope some of you have a boat to come get me. Because if it goes under I am sure most of the Southern United States will be an ocean. lol

 

[jis]

But the MS River posses no thread to the Sunset Limited. However, as mentioned, the Atchafalaya basin does. The Sunset Limited reaches the basin about 2 hours after departure when it passes Morgan City. The basin is about 20 miles wide and tracks are all at grade here except for where they a cross a small water way.

With the opening of the Morganza Spillway this weekend, the basin could see flooding anywhere from 5-20' of water. So there's a very high chance BNSF's tracks are gonna get submerged (and possibly for a while), suspending the Sunset Limited and freight.

the Sunset Limited has a high chance of a service disruption about 3 days after the Morganza spillway opens and water first reaches that area.

I agree with your assessment and I think henryj needs to look at a topo and flood level projection map to understand the situation as it will develop around Morgan City. A 15' flood level will easily put the track at least 5' under if not more.

 

[TacoMan]

The Governor and Army Corps of Engineers are both saying Morganza will open in the next 24 hours.

 

[John Bobinyec]

What happened in the big flood in the spring of 2008? Was the Sunset Limited affected that time?

Thanks,

JB

 

[henryj]

But the MS River posses no thread to the Sunset Limited. However, as mentioned, the Atchafalaya basin does. The Sunset Limited reaches the basin about 2 hours after departure when it passes Morgan City. The basin is about 20 miles wide and tracks are all at grade here except for where they a cross a small water way.

With the opening of the Morganza Spillway this weekend, the basin could see flooding anywhere from 5-20' of water. So there's a very high chance BNSF's tracks are gonna get submerged (and possibly for a while), suspending the Sunset Limited and freight.

the Sunset Limited has a high chance of a service disruption about 3 days after the Morganza spillway opens and water first reaches that area.

I agree with your assessment and I think henryj needs to look at a topo and flood level projection map to understand the situation as it will develop around Morgan City. A 15' flood level will easily put the track at least 5' under if not more.

You are right, I do not have topo maps or anything else to make an assessment. The Sunset route was built in the 1880's so I just assume they went way south via Morgan City to avoid the swamps and flooding east of Lafayette. If the track is going under so will Morgan City and everything else around there. What other cities will be inundated? Anyone have any idea. What about the old MP route that goes north of Lafayette and into Baton Rouge? Will it be affected also? Just curious. Will I10 go under? Do you really think they will sacrifice all those towns to save Baton Rouge and New Orleans? As a last resort they could detour the train over the old MP route east of Beaumont which goes through Opelousas and Krotz Springs via Baton Rouge assuming that route doesn't go under also.

 

[Grandpa D]

I notice, according to Amtrak Status Maps, that the Friday (05/13) SL 2 had a "SERVICE DISRUPTION". Did this actually happen? If so, that seems an extreme response to the flooding in Louisiana.

 

[Tracktwentynine]

The Army Corps of Engineers opened the Morganza Spillway at 4:00p (ET) today. According to news reports, it will take some time before the water actually gets to Morgan City. Several days, at least. And even at that point, the water may not inundate the transportation infrastructure.

Then again, it might. The Spillway is only going to be operating at partial capacity.

 

[Pat Harper]

Pat, did you have geography when you were in school?

[\quote]

I sorry. Yes, I did study geography, but evidently I had my terminals crossed. It's the cruise terminal that is south of the Mississippi. I had it mixed up with the train station. Therefore, I had it all backwards as usual!

 

[jis]

You are right, I do not have topo maps or anything else to make an assessment. The Sunset route was built in the 1880's so I just assume they went way south via Morgan City to avoid the swamps and flooding east of Lafayette. If the track is going under so will Morgan City and everything else around there. What other cities will be inundated? Anyone have any idea. What about the old MP route that goes north of Lafayette and into Baton Rouge?

Look at the two links posted by tracktwentynine further up this thread.

Reports are now coming out that BNSF has already or is about to embargo their line through Morgan City. This has or will affect Sunset Limited and it is is most likely to be canceled east of San Antonio. Tomorrow's 2 arrival at NOL shows "Service Disruption" on Train Status.

 

[mflsjhs]

do you think that the Sunset will be up and running normally again by the first week of June?

 

[George Harris]

The media EXAGGERATES!!!! There is also a good chance that those who are writing about this situation could barely find Louisiana on a US map, much less know its geography. How much of a rise in water will occur downstream of the Morganza Spillway will depend on how many gates they open and how high the Mississippi is above the floodgates' flow lines.

A couple of quotes from nola.com, which being out of New Orleans will be more realistic:

Opening the spillway had been a foregone conclusion for the past week, but the corps reduced the amount of water it planned to divert into the spillway by nearly 60 percent, to about 125,000 cubic feet per second.
That’s less than a quarter of the control structure’s maximum capacity of 600,000 cubic feet per second, which could be a bit of good news for people with property in the floodway.

. . . .

The decision to open the spillway was triggered when the river’s flow rate reached 1.5 million cubic feet per second, and still rising, at Red River Landing across from the State Penitentiary at Angola.

 

[nolatron]

Here's the corps estimated flooding model based on Morganza operating at 25% capacity. The SL route is highlighted out.

and here's if they go to 50% as originally planned.

 

[nolatron]

do you think that the Sunset will be up and running normally again by the first week of June?

Hard to say. The corps has estimated that the flooded areas could take 30-60 days or more to fully empty (trying to find the article I saw this in), again depending on how much water comes through the spillway and how long it remains opened.

But it all depends on how much flooding the area sees.